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Faustonowaka

Sake

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I've been searching for sake for quite a while, but I can't find any in my country.

I live in Belgium, perhaps that has something to do with it?

Does anyone know where I could find it?

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I don't mean to be a nitpick, but I'lkl just throw out on the table that in Japanese the word 'sake' means alcahol, referring to any alcaholic drink, and the word for 'rice-wine' or what is often thought of as 'sake' is called 'Nihonshu'.

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I don't mean to be a nitpick, but I'lkl just throw out on the table that in Japanese the word 'sake' means alcahol, referring to any alcaholic drink, and the word for 'rice-wine' or what is often thought of as 'sake' is called 'Nihonshu'.

Actually, sake can refer to either alcohol in general, or to Japanese rice wine.

A quote from John Gauntner, one of the premier Western experts on sake:

After the war...as western influences penetrated Japan, other beverages came into the equation. In 1965, the consumption of beer surpassed the consumption of sake for the first time.

Perhaps it was this threat of competition from beer and other beverages, or maybe it was an industry-wide desire to return to traditional-type sake, but the sake-brewing world itself began to move toward more user-friendliness and clarity in labeling. A general trend toward better rather than cheaper arose as well.

A set of rules for labeling arose in 1975 that, while only self-regulated, helped consumers know what they were buying. If non-rice adjuncts or flavoring were used, this was listed on the label. More about ingredients, brewing methodology, and quality was also indicated on labels.

The word sake itself is a generic term in Japanese for all alcoholic beverages. In 1973, the Central Brewers'Association began to use the term Nihonshu, which merely means Japanese sake. Legally, however, sake is known as seishu, loosely (but ubiquitously) rendered as refined sake. By law, seishu must be filtered, where filtered here means it must be pressed through a mesh of some sort. (This is why nigori-zake, or cloudy sake, has the white cloudy mash put back into the sake after it has been once pressed.)

Today, usually the term sake suffices, and when differentiation is needed nihonshu is brought in to play. Rarely does one see the term seishu anywhere but on a label.

Faustonowaka-zeki, try www.esake.com for your purchasing needs...kampai

(Laughing...)

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Thank you very much for this information!!

Unfortunately, the sak

Edited by Faustonowaka

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Fascinating info indeed!!

Nihoshu is hard to get in Finland too. Gekkeikan was the only one in the market at least a year ago and since then it has vanished from some Alkos (Finnish monopoly that sells alcohol) so getting harder to come by I guess.

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Thank you very much for this information!!

Unfortunately, the sak

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Do you know if there is one of those supermarkets near Terneuzen?

Other parts of Holland are pretty far to travel to for me...

It surprizes me that supermarkets in Belgium don't have sake, in some they've never even heard of it.

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Actually, sake can refer to either alcohol in general, or to Japanese rice wine.

A quote from John Gauntner, one of the premier Western experts on sake:

After the war...as western influences penetrated Japan, other beverages came into the equation. In 1965, the consumption of beer surpassed the consumption of sake for the first time.

Silly Man Mountain, quoting a westerner when discussing the meaning of Japanese words.

Actually Otokonoyama should try living in Japan for some time before making such rediculous ascertions.

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Actually, sake can refer to either alcohol in general, or to Japanese rice wine.

A quote from John Gauntner, one of the premier Western experts on sake:

After the war...as western influences penetrated Japan, other beverages came into the equation. In 1965, the consumption of beer surpassed the consumption of sake for the first time.

Silly Man Mountain, quoting a westerner when discussing the meaning of Japanese words.

Actually Otokonoyama should try living in Japan for some time before making such rediculous ascertions.

Poor, deluded Jesi...Blue Dragon fever. Incurable. Much like his spelling (Applauding...)! Now, we all slip up from time to time, but "ridiculous" IS ridiculously easy ;-)

Are you asserting that no Westerner is qualified to comment on the meaning of any Japanese words? That would shut down quite a lot of the folks on this fine forum, Jes...

Those marketing geniuses got you fooled? It is pretty easy to get duped (Shaking head...)

BTW, where are you living these days? Couldn't hack it in The Land of the Gods? :'-(

EDIT: quick challenge for you: find me ONE haiku preceding 1973 using the word Nihonshu...can't do it; ok, how about a tanka?

Edited by Otokonoyama

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Silly Man Mountain, quoting a westerner when discussing the meaning of Japanese words.

Actually Otokonoyama should try living in Japan for some time before making such rediculous ascertions.

Jesi,

what's with the attitude against Otoko?

For someone with less than 4 years in Japan ie. just 3 (you feel the need to use 'almost 4 years' in your self intro as indeed kids say I'm nine and a half with the emphasis on being nearly 10) you only qualify for a T-shirt I'd say. The video comes after 5 years so do yourself a favor wind your neck in on this one.

Let's not forget as well, your time was spent in the foreign enclave called Kanagawa and hardly in the real Japan some of us call home. Man, I speak to a foreign guy face to face less than once a month I'd say.

And if you do not know the name Gautner (Philip Harper is another non-J who is big in the sake business) or of his (their) abilities then you are entering a conversation on a subject with half your brain tied behind your back.

But go ahead and prove me wrong - answer Otoko's haiku / tanka question.....

I sure can't and I love haiku / tanka / waka.

(and for other fans - the Basho museum is not a long walk from the Kokugikan if you are ever in the are)

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I deleted this post. In it I had stuped to the level of making personal attack against others. This forum is better off without such exchanges. I hope the two who made personal attacks against me will follow suit.

Edited by Jesinofuji

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So, presuming a working visa - a uni education was a must :-P Which one BTW?

You kill me Jesi. (Laughing...) Fanks four the lafs. :-S :-D ;-)

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I know I'm not a perfect speller, and could give a rats  (Censored) .  If your stuping down to the level of nitpicking me about spelling, it truely shows you have no case.

So now you know exactly why I left Japan. because I couldn't 'hack' it?  :-D  Now this is stupid, I can't think of any other way to describe it.  FYI, I moved to Taiwan because I wanted to see a new place and to learn Chinese.  I'm enjoying life here Thank You.

Ahh, so 'Nihonshu' has to be in a haiku that existed before 1973 for sake to mean alcahol?  Is that what you're saying?  Pathetic, truely pathetic.

Why do you feel the need to nitpick every one of my posts anyways?  You are like Sumoforum's version of Uchidate-san!

Jesi-san, let's stick to the facts, shall we? ;-)

I believe it was your (the possessive form, as opposed to the contraction of you are to you're) post regarding sake that was nitpicking. I simply pointed out the error. Nihonshu is a marketer's term that has come into fashion. Yes, people do use it from time to time when they desire a certain level of specificity, but sake will suffice, AND is very commonly used. Had you merely mentioned that sake is also called nihonshu in certain circumstances, instead of trying to correct what was already fine, we might not be here... :-S

As for the rest, I find your techinque somewhat trying. You are an unabashed Shoryu fan, and nothing is wrong with that. Many on this forum are also fans, including me. What troubles me is your penchant for trying to weave logical and/or historical arguments in defense of Asashoryu, when you're just not up to the challenge (Laughing...). Clearly, you feel very emotional and attached to your hero, and that's fine. I wouldn't expect any different. But, when you go off on those people who ask perfectly legit questions about the King of the Ring's behaviour, or when you try to explain away every fault of his (we all have them, especially me (Oops! ) ), you should state or imply that you are expressing your opinion...Ganbatte, ne :-P

Edited by Otokonoyama

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Otokonoyama, have you tried the sake made by Otokoyama?

Their dai-junmai sake is one of the best around.

Yes, but only the junmai. That was a great sake. I also recommend KU (

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Haven't heard of KU before. Must not be readily available outside of Japan.

I myself prefer the Kubota Manju, which is their junmai daiginjo sake. It is always rated at the tops of the lists.

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After a 2 week search I finally found some sake in my country: in a Chinese supermarket in Brussels.

The sake itself was pretty cheap, medicore quality.

Better than nothing I guess... ;-)

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After a 2 week search I finally found some sake in my country: in a Chinese supermarket in Brussels.

The sake itself was pretty cheap, medicore quality.

Better than nothing I guess... ;-)

Even average, inexpensive sake can be quite good, as long as it's fresh. As a brewed beverage, the fresher, the better. Six months and younger is best, certainly no more than a year old. Most brewers put a "bottled on" date on the label, bottle, or cap these days... ;-)

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After a 2 week search I finally found some sake in my country: in a Chinese supermarket in Brussels.

The sake itself was pretty cheap, medicore quality.

Better than nothing I guess... (Showing respect...)

Most likely it was for cooking....

I'd recommend websites, but then I realized that alcohol importation laws for the US are different than those for the EU and that there are probably some sakes that have been cleared for entry by the ATF that haven't been cleared by the alcohol authorities in Europe...

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It was not sake used for cooking.

I had almost bought such sake last week, but when I looked more closely the bottle said something about this sake being used in sauces etc..

The sake I bought last wednesday came from a Chinese supermarket and was placed next to other types of oriental drinks, such as lychee wine. Therefore I am quite sure it is regular sake.

I allready tasted it and it was quite good. (Licking lips...)

I also tried to order sake from internet sites, but as you stated, most are only available in the US, and the ones that can be bought here in Europe come at a very high shipping price (

Edited by Faustonowaka

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Can I suggest the reason that Nihonshu is not used in Haiku or tanka is that it takes more syllables than sake, so in fact uses more space in the poem. This would make it rather awkward to use effectively I would think.

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Guest Futabayama

I get my sake from a japanase store down the steet.

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