2016 All-Japan Championship

[Katooshu 3,221]

Two quick questions:

How many times has Kurokawa made it to the top 4 now?

On what basis is the Kanto-Sho awarded?

[mikawa 1,794]

Edit: the Kanto-Sho was for Terasawa Shigeru, corrected that now

[mikawa 1,794]

16 minutes ago, John Gunning said:

 

Yeah looks like that. I was busy running around the place so wasn't really keep track.

Will Inside Sport be doing a program on this event?

[mikawa 1,794]

20 minutes ago, Katooshu said:

How many times has Kurokawa made it to the top 4 now?

For this tournament, Kurokawa Soichiro was runner-up in 2014 (to Mitakeumi) and 2015 (to Turbold), so 3 times so far

[Katooshu 3,221]

Thanks

Close but no cigar for him then

[Asashosakari 19,319]

1 hour ago, mikawa said:

Winner: Yago Taiki (矢後 太規, Chuo University)

The press notes his given name reading as Takanori, by the way, e.g. Hochi.

[Bumpkin 438]

On 12/4/2016 at 16:07, Kintamayama said:

Turbold just announced he is joining Nishikido beya. John, is that a good thing? He will start at Makushita tsukedashi 15.

Has the "one foreigner per heya" rule ever been challenged in a Japanese court of law?

[mikawa 1,794]

10 minutes ago, Asashosakari said:

The press notes his given name reading as Takanori, by the way, e.g. Hochi.

Thanks for that info, just edited

[Asashosakari 19,319]

By the way, is it fair to say that Arakizeki might be the best rikishi of the last 10 years who didn't turn pro? I recall back when I was doing amateur results more regularly (until 2013 or so), he always seemed to be in the late rounds of events that involved the corporate crowd, and now here he is with yet another high-profile semifinal at 30 years old.

Edited December 5, 2016 by Asashosakari

[Kintamayama 45,108]

7 hours ago, Asashosakari said:

By the way, is it fair to say that Arakizeki might be the best rikishi of the last 10 years who didn't turn pro?

At least his name suggests he is a pro..

[Bumpkin 438]

9 hours ago, John Gunning said:

No. Apart from the obvious question as to whom you think would challenge it and what you think they would gain from doing so, on what basis do you think it could be challenged? The constitution gives equal rights to all "citizens" not all residents. The "no foreigners" signs you see in some places aren't breaking any laws. The Kyokai of course isn't exactly a private company but anyway as I said even if there were some basis in law for a challenge, anyone doing so likely would lose more than they gain even if they won. 

Obviously, an Oyakata would challenge this "rule" as violating his rights to hire/train the sumo wrestlers of his choice.  For instance, what if Musashigawa Oyakata had another nephew  that wanted to join Ozumo.  What does he have to lose.  It's not like the Kyokai will ever let him on the board, let alone elect him Chairman. I'm not a lawyer and I no nothing about Japanese law, but this "rule" seems to violate basic laws against discrimination.  Aren't the Japanese very touchy when it comes to allegations of racism?  Gee, I can't imagine why.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited December 7, 2016 by Bumpkin

[Raishu 208]

11 minutes ago, Bumpkin said:

[...] For instance, what if Musashigawa Oyakata had another nephew  that wanted to join Ozumo.[...]

At least in that case, he could easily get in touch with other stables which don't have a foreigner at the moment. If I counted correctly, there 12 heya who still have an open slot. Sure enough, not all of them might accept a foreigner (Isenoumi or Takadagawa come to mind), but I'm pretty sure he could work something out.

If you imply that the hypothetical nephew wanted to join Musashigawa beya (you wrote "to join Ozumo"), that would not work... right.

[Bumpkin 438]

Mods;  Oops, I did it again.  Will you please shorten my post.

[Akinomaki 40,454]

3 hours ago, John Gunning said:

Why is that. Are you privy to some inside info? I don't see the man himself wanting that but then again I didn't see him opening his own stable and being probably the most hands-on oyakata in the entire organisation either.

And in the near future he and Takanohana may be the only former yokozuna left in the NSK (other than the re-employed) - who else would become riji then?

Edited December 8, 2016 by Akinomaki

[Bumpkin 438]

10 hours ago, John Gunning said:

You're seriously asking what would he have to lose by causing a ruckus in a society that values harmony above all else? By taking his bosses, co-workers and friends to court? The very people who hold the power over his job and stable? Even if this hypothetical second nephew were the second coming of Raiden I dunno would it be worth it. 

There used to be a guy on this forum who went by the handle Treblemaker. No matter how long he had had been following the sport or how many times he had stuff explained to him he refused to see sumo through anything but the lens of his own cultural circumstances. It's a path best abandoned if you want to understand what is really going on in sumo or indeed in Japan in general.

I understand that Japan is different than the West. I understand that Ozumo is different than the rest of Japan. I depend on you and other forum members, that live in Japan, to explain "foreign" aspects of Ozumo to me. The original question I asked and follow up example I gave were both legitimate. 

[Bumpkin 438]

10 hours ago, John Gunning said:

Why is that. Are you privy to some inside info? I don't see the man himself wanting that but then again I didn't see him opening his own stable and being probably the most hands-on oyakata in the entire organisation either.

No. I am not privy to some inside info. That's your department, is it not?

[Bumpkin 438]

13 hours ago, John Gunning said:

It is and I know of no kyokai conspiracy to keep Musashigawa out of power. In fact he is well respected in the organization. You've touched on the issue of racism so are you saying it is because he is foreign? If so I don't know what to say to that apart from if you think the sumo world is closed to foreigners at any level then I'll have to disagree. 

The sumo world IS closed to foreigners at the highest level.  Only Japanese citizens can own a Kabu and become Oyakatas.  Taiho Oyakata, who was half-Japanese, was never on the board of directors.  I seriously doubt Musashigawa, who is foreign born and married to a Japanese woman, will ever be on the board of directors either.  The same goes for Hakuho, Harumafuji, Kakuryu and any other foreign-born wrestlers.  It is not racism.  It is xenophobia, perhaps.

Edited December 9, 2016 by Bumpkin

[Bumpkin 438]

13 hours ago, John Gunning said:

Sure. As were the answers. I'd be willing to bet as many of Kintamayama's steaks as you want that an oyakata suing the kyokai to gain a spot a second foreigner won't happen anytime in the foreseeable future. 

On this, I agree.  BTW, Kinta has steaks?  What?

Edited December 9, 2016 by Bumpkin

[Chiyozakura 148]

2 hours ago, Bumpkin said:

The sumo world IS closed to foreigners at the highest level.  Only Japanese citizens can own a Kabu and become Oyakatas.  Taiho Oyakata, who was half-Japanese, was never on the board of directors.  I seriously doubt Musashigawa, who is foreign born and married to a Japanese woman, will ever be on the board of directors either.  The same goes for Hakuho, Harumafuji, Kakuryu and any other foreign-born wrestlers.  It is not racism.  It is xenophobia perhaps.

??? What makes you think that Taiho never was a Riji??? And what about Taiho not having to buy a kabu but being the first to be allowed to carry his Shikona as an Oyakata? Even national hero Futabayama had to aquire a kabu.

You should base you arguments on facts and not not on prejudices.

[Kintamayama 45,108]

9 hours ago, John Gunning said:

It is and I know of no kyokai conspiracy to keep Musashigawa out of power. In fact he is well respected in the organization. You've touched on the issue of racism so are you saying it is because he is foreign? If so I don't know what to say to that apart from if you think the sumo world is closed to foreigners at any level then I'll have to disagree. 

If anything, i would venture Musashigawa Oyakata has no desire whatsoever to be riji anytime soon- he's probably happy just to be able to have his own heya and judging by what I see it's a full time job for him as it is..

[Akinomaki 40,454]

Videos of the preliminaries 1st, 2nd and 3rd round and 1st&2nd round of the final tournament of All Japan sumo are now on the net on the usual channel: https://www.youtube.com/user/masa2360s/videos

The rest will surely follow soon.

Edit: now complete with: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mfd-7MQ-hHY

Edited December 11, 2016 by Akinomaki

[Bumpkin 438]

6 hours ago, Chiyozakura said:

??? What makes you think that Taiho never was a Riji??? And what about Taiho not having to buy a kabu but being the first to be allowed to carry his Shikona as an Oyakata? Even national hero Futabayama had to aquire a kabu.

You should base you arguments on facts and not not on prejudices.

It is my understanding that Taiho Oyakata was not on the Board of Directors.  I am not prejudiced but I might be ignorant of Ozumo history.  That is why I am on the forum.  To learn, not to be lectured to.  Thank you.

[Asashosakari 19,319]

I'm afraid your grand pronouncements earlier in the thread made a lecturing response a virtual certainty...

For the record, Taiho was on the board from 1980 to 1996, and had been part of the power structure as early as 1976 when he was made deputy head shimpan at just 35 years of age. But the stroke he suffered only a year later impeded his progress and his relative frailty afterwards is generally considered the reason why he never made it to one of the top three positions on the board, instead spending most of his tenure as the Nagoya basho director.

[Bumpkin 438]

I made no "grand pronouncements".  I, merely, asked a question regarding the "one foreigner per heya" rule.  This was after reading about Turbold.  I was then compared to a "treblemaker".  Good grief.  What did I do wrong?  I stand corrected regarding Taiho Oyakata being on the board.  Thank you for the information.

[Asashosakari 19,319]

I was talking about comments such as this one:

On 7.12.2016 at 15:20, Bumpkin said:

 What does [Musashigawa] have to lose.  It's not like the Kyokai will ever let him on the board, let alone elect him Chairman.

Over the last few months, we've had an influx of - mainly American, I have to note - new posters who share in this peculiar habit of making statements like that one, which are phrased as though they're including some totally obvious and self-evident truth, while actually being either highly controversial or frequently enough complete nonsense. It's starting to grate a bit. Just because it seems to make sense to you doesn't make it true. (To be clear: The "you" in the last sentence doesn't mean you specifically, but everybody who's posting like that.)

Edited December 9, 2016 by Asashosakari