itchyknee

Simultaneous withdrawals?

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Two rikishi scheduled to meet each other the next day get sufficiently injured to withdraw.

Is this scored as an absence for both?

Would the one (the later-injured), or both, decide not to withdraw in the hopes that they could get the fusen win and then withdraw the following day?

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If both sumotori are absent then they both lose.  This happened once a long time ago.  Otherwise, I'm sure, one would show up hoping to get the free win.

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By the way, what was the meaning when the result of a bout was a "yasumi" ? Until now I thought it was an absence for both.

 

 

Edited by serge_gva

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According to the sumo glossary "yasumi" means to rest.  The "triangle" used in your link usually means "draw".  Could be a mistake in the sumo database.

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2 hours ago, serge_gva said:

By the way, what was the meaning when the result of a bout was a "yasumi" ? Until now I thought it was an absence for both.

Following the Tokyo-Osaka merger they tried to reform certain parts of the sumo experience, one of which was a more standardized way of scheduling. Those yasumi decisions were their first new way of handling rikishi who withdraw from the basho, essentially scoring the bout as "did not take place due to absence by one of the competitors" - as can be seen in the query it didn't last long, and was soon replaced by the fusenpai / fusensho system we're familiar with now.

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1 hour ago, Ryoshishokunin said:

Both of those things are correct, Bumpkin.  IIRC, it's a bout that goes on for ages that doesn't get anywhere?

No. That's called "hikiwake". The last time that happened in Makuuchi was Aki 1974.  A match I watched on TV between Mienoumi and Futagodake.  IIRC they fought for several minutes, then they took a water break, then they fought for several more minutes, then they took a second water break, then they fought for several more minutes, then they stopped the bout.  The total match lasted over 5 minutes.

Edited by Bumpkin
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2 hours ago, Bumpkin said:

No. That's called "hikiwake". The last time that happened in Makuuchi was Aki 1974.  A match I watched on TV between Mienoumi and Futagodake.  IIRC they fought for several minutes, then they took a water break, then they fought for several more minutes, then they took a second water break, then they fought for several more minutes, then they stopped the bout.  The total match lasted over 5 minutes.

I'd say: YRC ;-)

https://rutube.ru/video/a3bae2d64266dee4891b77051b0802f2/

Edit:

Spoiler

That's interesting. The only matches with breaks i've seen so far, were started from the exact same poition the rikishi were in before the break. A second tachai (and with a henka!) was absolutely new to me.

 

Edited by Benihana

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Wow!  I hadn't seen that match in 42 years!  Too bad they don't have the entire match on the internet.  Thank you.

Edited by Bumpkin

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1 minute ago, Bumpkin said:

No. Only one tachai. They restarted the match from the position they were in.

First tachiai at 0:12, separation at 0:33, second tachiai at 0:57. That's what i see. I'm confused.

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2 minutes ago, Benihana said:

First tachiai at 0:12, separation at 0:33, second tachiai at 0:57. That's what i see. I'm confused.

My bad.  I posted before I watched the video.  Memories...

Edited by Bumpkin

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Just now, Bumpkin said:

My bad.  I posted before I watch the video.  Memories...

Never mind :-)

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Other than hikiwake, which are extremely rare so as to be nonexistent these days (although still technically possible), in the old times the shimpan after a mono-ii could declare a result of "azukari" (which normally means something like "under custody") which was that it was too close to call.  Since 1927 (according to wikipedia) they have done rematches (torinaoshi) in such situations, but they used to just record it as a draw.  So you'll see some of the old rikishi have their career records that have something like -3d-4a in them.  The same triangle is used for all the cases where a match was scheduled and no one won or lost, whether when they were due to yasumi, by hikiwake, or by azukari.

Edited by Gurowake
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That is amazingly good quality video for 1974.

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Just ran into this thread. To clarify, apparently the Futagodake-Mienoumi video linked above is heavily cut. According to Atsuo Tsubota's site (one of the more prominent places of info in the "old days"), the match did in fact go through the usual "first restart from same position, second restart from tachiai" progression, and lasted a total of 12 minutes 59 seconds before they abandoned it as a draw.

Edited by Asashosakari
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