Basho Talk - Kyushu Basho 2016 ** (SPOILERS)

[Dapeng 232]

11 minutes ago, Kintamayama said:

Tochinoshin actually had his sanyaku promotion on the line there. He got it today in the end but had he lost today, Takarafuji would have gotten the promotion.

Three rikishi eligible but only two spaces. He still can be "Tochinoshined ". 

[robnplunder 974]

7 minutes ago, SumpaX said:

Someone has to make a poll where you can guess how many Jun-Yusho's Kisenosato will have at the end of his career!

I would laugh if it weren't so sad...

Could this be a new record? (most Jun-Yushos in a year?)

Edit: Oh my god, nevermind... he allready had 4 jun-yushos in 2013. 

I commented to my that I felt sad for Kise to get so many jun-yusho.   She said that's good, isn't it?  Any rikishi should be happy with that.   Then I told her he had 0 yusho.   

[Kintamayama 44,345]

11 minutes ago, Dapeng said:

That's why they said the bar had been lowered. 

I thought they said the bar had been opened.

[Bumpkin 438]

19 minutes ago, SumpaX said:

Someone has to make a poll where you can guess how many Jun-Yusho's Kisenosato will have at the end of his career!

I would laugh if it weren't so sad...

Could this be a new record? (most Jun-Yushos in a year?)

Edit: Oh my god, nevermind... he allready had 4 jun-yushos in 2013. 

Only 12.  My goodness.  I thought he had like 20 or something.

[Kintamayama 44,345]

Just now, Dapeng said:

Three rikishi eligible but only two spaces. He still can be "Tochinoshined ". 

Of course he will be.

 

[SumpaX 23]

11 minutes ago, Bumpkin said:

Only 12.  My goodness.  I thought he had like 20 or something.

Me too, but surprisingly hakuho has more jun-yusho's. :o

[kuroimori 1,634]

24 minutes ago, Kintamayama said:

I thought they said the bar had been opened.

Yes, both is correct. It is open, but in the basement now! 

Cheers! 

[ALAKTORN 346]

1 hour ago, Benevolance said:

I am happy that Goeidou restored my faith in his abilities. 

You’re the funniest guy on here, thanks for all the laughs.

[Amamaniac 2,078]

At least Kaisei won his bout on the last day, bringing his record up to a rather dismal 3:12.  I have wondered for some time whether he really deserves to be in the Top Division, not to mention a part of the great Hakuho's dohyoiri team.  But this tournament made me respect him much more as a person.  On Day 11, when he was leaving the stadium after getting his first win of the tournament, a fan tried to approach him to shake his hand, but Kaisei's tsukibito pushed the man's hand away.  Kaisei noticed it, and went over specially to shake the young man's hand.  Then on Day 15, after pushing Tochiozan off the ring, he extended his hand to help Tochi back up.

Needless to say, Tochiozan did not accept the gesture.  You'd think that following bushido sumo wrestlers would know not to show mercy or kindness towards their defeated foes, but whenever I see it I am reminded that sumo wrestlers are human beings too.

[Bumpkin 438]

17 minutes ago, SumpaX said:

Me too, but surprisingly hakuho has more jun-yusho's. :o

Hakuho has more of everything!

[Amamaniac 2,078]

8 hours ago, Kintamayama said:

Lost in the basho hubbub:

Kisenosato jun yusho. Alone. Incredible.

Kakuryuu wins the yusho with a two win margin. Incredible.

One Makuuchi kyujo (on senshuraku) the whole basho. No Makuuchi hyphenated records. Wow.

Not a single Juryo rikishi visits Makuuchi the whole basho. But I repeat myself..

Also lost in the hubbub was the fact that there were no bouts lasting more than one minute in this tournament.  Usually, Ichinojo contributes one or two minute-plus bouts per tournament.  Not this time.  The change in strategy may also explain his 7:8 makekoshi record...

Edited November 27, 2016 by Amamaniac
typo

[SumpaX 23]

6 minutes ago, Amamaniac said:

Also lost in the hubbub was the fact that there were no bouts lasting more than one minute in this tournament.  Usually, Ichinojo contributes one or two minute-plus bout per tournament.  Not this time.  The change in strategy may also explain his 7:8 makekoshi record...

Yea, what was wrong with the old strategy ; / hope he comes back as the walking giant he was.

[Benihana 1,901]

33 minutes ago, Amamaniac said:

You'd think that following bushido sumo wrestlers would know not to show mercy or kindness towards their defeated foes, but whenever I see it I am reminded that sumo wrestlers are human beings too.

Bushido also teaches honor and justice. If your opponent fought with honor, treat him appropriate.

Edited November 27, 2016 by Benihana

[ALAKTORN 346]

34 minutes ago, Amamaniac said:

On Day 11, when he was leaving the stadium after getting his first win of the tournament, a fan tried to approach him to shake his hand, but Kaisei's tsukibito pushed the man's hand away.  Kaisei noticed it, and went over specially to shake the young man's hand.

Is there a vid of that? I’d like to see it.

[Amamaniac 2,078]

36 minutes ago, ALAKTORN said:

Is there a vid of that? I’d like to see it.

Can't help you with possible clips preserved on the internet, but it was shown in the NHK broadcast of Day 11 featured on TV Japan.

[rhyen 1,808]

1 hour ago, Bumpkin said:

Hakuho has more of everything!

Except losses.

[rzombie1988 157]

Thoughts:

- Kakuryu's been pretty consistent all basho and that's what you need to win.

- Hakuho was clearly injured all basho and this is starting to become routine, which isn't good for him. I do think he is on the decline sadly.

- Harumafuji looked pretty good up until the last few days where he fell apart. Really underperformed here and didn't take advantage of the opportunity.

- Kisenosato now has 12 2nd place finishes without a title, which extends his record for that. It's really hard to believe in the chokeozuna at this point and I honestly think he would need all 3 Yokozunae to be injured plus another Ozeki to really have a shot. He is the choker of all chokers and relied a bit too much on power this basho. Kise also set the record for most wins this year.

- Goeido showed he really wasn't ready to become a Yokozuna and I think he needs really good conditions to pull it off again like he did last time around.

- Kotoshogiku was about as bad as he could be this basho.

- Terunofuji was definitely injured and I wish he could just take time off, get healed and come back 100%, because I know he could have won another title. He is too talented to let these stupid injuries ruin his career.

- Disappointed that Ichinojo is going to escape demotion. A Juryo demotion might be the kick in the butt he needs to get his act together. He has all of the tools in the world and seemingly could care less.

Edited November 27, 2016 by rzombie1988

[Benevolance 2,478]

12 minutes ago, rhyen said:

Except losses.

Give him time. I suspect he's working on that record next. 

[Sakura 1,472]

1 hour ago, robnplunder said:

In addition, my list will include a few too many shinpan/judging misses, Ishiura's physics defying early run, Sakamoto going 4-3 after the 1-3 start and making every one of his basho record to be 4-3.    

Do you think Sakamoto would go 8-7 in Juryo? 

Some thoughts:

Kakuryu. Not surprised he had a good basho. 

Hakuho still injured. I put too much faith in returning injured people on my RotoSumo guess and he was one of them.

Harumafuji - most disappointing performance for me. I expected more from him.

Kisenesato - Nice surprise. Didn't think he'd beat all 3 Yokozuna. Pity he had those other losses.

Goeido - Great start, I feel like his quality (or motivation) dropped after losing to Kisenesato.

Endo - Disappointing that he couldn't get over the hump and get the KK. Especially since he faced a few lower ranked (than him) Maegashira.

[Atenzan 1,074]

Look at Kisenosato's record in the last 4 days of honbasho, from when he first became Ozeki up until now. It's consistently at about .500. (That is, he has about as many wins as losses). Only once has he won all of his 4 last bouts. 

That is a classic choker's symptom. I should know that; my choking in tournament pool is second to none. When the finish line is in sight, no matter what his record is, he collapses to a run of the mill Ozeki, which is still very good, but not as good as most people seem to expect. 

[Katooshu 3,132]

2 hours ago, Amamaniac said:

At least Kaisei won his bout on the last day, bringing his record up to a rather dismal 3:12.  I have wondered for some time whether he really deserves to be in the Top Division, not to mention a part of the great Hakuho's dohyoiri team.  But this tournament made me respect him much more as a person.  On Day 11, when he was leaving the stadium after getting his first win of the tournament, a fan tried to approach him to shake his hand, but Kaisei's tsukibito pushed the man's hand away.  Kaisei noticed it, and went over specially to shake the young man's hand.  Then on Day 15, after pushing Tochiozan off the ring, he extended his hand to help Tochi back up.

Needless to say, Tochiozan did not accept the gesture.  You'd think that following bushido sumo wrestlers would know not to show mercy or kindness towards their defeated foes, but whenever I see it I am reminded that sumo wrestlers are human beings too.

If Kaisei didn't deserve to be in the top division he wouldn't have spent 33 tournaments there, with a pair of kanto-sho and a stint as sekiwake.

That's a nice story to hear, and seems in line with Kaisei's friendly personality.

Edited November 27, 2016 by Katooshu

[rzombie1988 157]

8 hours ago, YoungSumo said:

Looks like Kisenosato will be in line for a Yokozuna promotion once again. There should be no worries about his consistency, if only he could get a yusho. 

The guys that impressed me the most this basho are probably Tamawashi and Arawashi. Little to no buzz surrounding them but both of them did really well. Kakuryu and Shoudai are also hard not to praise for their performances. I'm not sold on Ishura yet, he had a great debut but I feel like Hokutofuji showed overall better sumo.

http://sumodb.sumogames.de/Yusho.aspx

Since 11/2011, exactly 5 years ago, there have been:

8 tournaments won off of 15-0 records - 26% of the 30 tournaments had this as a winning record

14 tournaments won off of 14-1 records - 46.6% of the 30 tournaments had this as a winning record

5 tournaments won off of 13-2 records 16.6% of the 30 tournaments had this as a winning record

3 tournaments won off of 12-3 records 10% of the 30 tournaments had this as a winning record

What this tells you is that if you are getting 13 wins or less, you don't really have a good chance of getting a title right now. But, if you can get 14+ wins, you have a pretty good chance of winning.  Guess how many 14 win tournaments Kisenosato has had in his career? 0. He's only hit 13 wins 4 times in the same 30 tournament period, which is 13.3% of the time. Until he can start hitting 13 wins consistently, yet alone 14 wins, he doesn't have a great chance of winning a tournament. If he can hit 14 wins and doesn't win, he truly was just unlucky. 14 wins is the going rate for tournaments right now.

He has good numbers for an Ozeki, but he's just not at Yokozuna level right now. While Kakuryu and Harumafuji can't consistently hit 14-15 wins, they can at least hit it once in a while.

Edited November 27, 2016 by rzombie1988

[Jojo 11]

12 minutes ago, rzombie1988 said:

He has good numbers for an Ozeki, but he's just not at Yokozuna level right now. While Kakuryu and Harumafuji can't consistently hit 14-15 wins, they can at least hit it once in a while.

Not sure I can agree with that, first there are now 3 Yokozuna, so 3 losses to attribute amongst them no matter what (if they're present obviously; a 4th Yokozuna would make that 6, lowering the average % of wins) and second as Yokozuna neither of them really hit 14 and 15 once in a while... Harumafuji had a purple patch with his tsuna run then another 15-0 a couple basho after promotion, his last basho (and only as a Yokozuna) with 14-1 was 3 years ago... As for Kakuryu he has 3 records of 14-1, the couple that made him a Yokozuna and this one... Or to put it another way, Hakuho is skewing the perception, I believe.

As for Kisenosato I agree he hasn't really shown the consistency, and clearly the ability to win a tournament, to be considered... But a Tsuna run is only 2 basho, look at Kakuryu he never shown much as an Ozeki and then... 

[ryafuji 807]

Terunofuji wins in 2015: 65

Terunofuji wins in 2016: 33

Talk about a year to forget... 

[rzombie1988 157]

Here's the official list of various win totals for all tournaments since 1990:

Since 1990 (161 tournaments), only 43% of the tournament winners got by with 13 wins or less.

Interesting to note is that 2009 was the hardest year to win a tournament. 1994 was pretty brutal too with Takanohana alone going 14-1 or better 4 different times that year. 1999 and the early 2000's seemed like easier years with the old guard wearing out and Asa not being a force yet. This year wasn't exactly easy either.

Edited November 27, 2016 by rzombie1988