Basho Talk - Kyushu Basho 2016 ** (SPOILERS)

[Jyuunomori 226]

I can't handle these Ura's man. Both of them are doing fabulous, even if both of them started with a loss (2 in Ura's case). What Ishiura is doing is incredible. He is already KK and Ura is just one short of a KK.We could see 10 wins from both. Ura would be promoted to Makuuchi and Ishiura would fly like an eagly and get special prize. Exciting stuff from the little guys.

Is this the same Terunofuji from the first two days of this tournament? What the hell happened on day 3 onwards?

Shodai is super calm and powerful this basho. He is going to be Komusubi, if not Sekiwake next basho. The rate he is improving is terrifying.

In closing:

COULD THIS BE ISHIURA'S BASHO?

[Akinomaki 40,053]

10 hours ago, Chiyozakura said:

1. Okinoumi pushes Goeido to the edge. 2. Goeido tries to stay in with his foot on the tawara and his heel very close to the area outside the ring. If it touches outside now he has lost. 3. Goeido counters with a throw which forces Okinoumi down before Goeido takes the step outside.If his heel has not touched before Okinoumi fell he has won, if it touched he has lost. So there is no reason for a torinaoshi. My take is that Tomozuna simply messed up the explanation. Hopefully he told the wrong reason and not the wrong winner.

So let's ask a lip reading translator who sat at the suna-kaburi about what the shimpan conspired:

Tzna: Tamajiro gave it to G., but it looked close enough to hand G. a loss and give a present to the riji-cho's boy.

Tkwa: Nobody will be able to tell if Goeido's foot was out before, at the same time or after Oki's arm touched.

Kkno: Then it's in dubio pro reo - we can't say he was out so he won - else only tori-naoshi.

Tzna: We don't want to promote an ozekiwake with just 2 good basho

O-ma: But he'll lose spirit and lose even more - we need some permanent Japanese tsuna-run going on to keep sumo popularity up.

Tgno: My boy will take over again with a jun-yusho

Tzna: OK, we agree that both could be declared the loser and we want G. to lose, that's it then.

Kim: Hey, I didn't do anything wrong and you want to hand me a sashi-chigae - what about MY promotion to tate-gyoji?

Tzna: We don't need a new Shonosuke yet, all contenders will be given as many sashi-chigae as possible to block a decision.

Explanation:

Tzna: (both could have lost, but I mustn't mention even the possibility of them out and down at the same time - no out and down, no out and down): The gyoji gave it to Goeido, but as result of the conference, Goeido's body dropped down first and we make it a win for Okinoumi." (Oh, that was the explanation for Okinoumi losing - no problem, I'll make up an explanation of the explanation - ah, and the sashi-chigae for the gyoji - if not a tori-naoshi, that has to be mentioned - who cares).

Edited November 21, 2016 by Akinomaki

[Naganoyama 5,881]

Is Terunofuji wearing an Aminishiki-style brace under his large knee bandage? (They are both at Isegahama Beya as you know)

[sumojoann 1,262]

I first became aware of Ishiura prior to the 2014 Aki basho when he was still in Makushita.  A friend told me about him so I started watching his videos on Youtube.  Most of those videos were subsequently deleted along with many others due to copyright issues.  There may still be an old one on Youtube when he was competing in a tournament in Australia,  He fought a much larger man (a New Zealander?), and ran him right out of the dohyo at full speed while everybody gasped!  I was amazed at his use of a wide variety of kimarite even then while watching the Youtube videos..  When I visited Miyagino-beya while in Tokyo to watch the 2014 Aki basho, I ran into him after meeting Hakuho.  He was still in Makushita at this time.  He was stunned that I knew his name.  Unfortunately, I didn't have time to talk to him before my taxi arrived.  (He speaks English).  But I KNEW it was just a matter of time before he would be promoted to Juryo.  Watching him at the Kokugikan, I was so impressed even then with his quickness and agility, plus his technical skills.  Sure enough, he was promoted to Juryo after 2 or 3 more bashos.  Fortunately, he has put on some weight and added more muscles.  I always thought he was too small to succeed in Makuuchi.  But MAN, look at him go!!!  Like most people on this forum, I am amazed that he has already achieved his kachi koshi and I am so very proud of him.  I do worry about the hype machine taking over, however.

 

[sumojoann 1,262]

Can someone post a link to the Youtube video showing Ishiura defeating Milhaere of New Zealand at the Australian Sumo Championship 2012?  I apologize, i don't know how to do it.  The title of the video is "Ishiura (Japan) vs Milhaere (NZ)".  Thank you.

You can see that even back then, he is incredible!

[Benihana 1,913]

1 minute ago, sumojoann said:

Can someone post a link to the Youtube video showing Ishiura defeating Milhaere of New Zealand at the Australian Sumo Championship 2012?  I apologize, i don't know how to do it.  The title of the video is "Ishiura (Japan) vs Milhaere (NZ)".  Thank you.

You can see that even back then, he is incredible!

At your command. 

 

[sumojoann 1,262]

On a totally different topic, I want to ask a question about Kotoyuki, specifically his hand-taping.  I hope this is the place to ask.  Even though he is not doing well this basho (actually, ever since he was apparently told to stop barking...lol), I still think he has an unfair advantage.

Why is he allowed to tape both of his hands to make them into "semi-lethal nodowa mitts"?  They are ALWAYS taped up the exact same way and with each hand identical to the other.  The thumb is by itself but the 4 fingers are taped together.  I believe this gives him an unfair advantage, and allows him to use the nodowa technique with greater effect.

What do you all think??

 

 

[Dwale 419]

That little jump Ishiura did after his victory makes me nervous. If it was anxiety about getting his kachi-koshi that was making him perform like that, then he needs to stay anxious! Still an impressive feat, and his sumo has been satisfying.  

Kisenosato has a way of reversing things at the bales, something Goeido knew very well going into this bout. Not a bad performance from Goeido, but he was simply outmatched by Kisenosato's wiles and ring sense.

As for Terunofuji, I'll just say that the yokozuna had better not let their guards down when it comes time to face him. Injured or not, he's still a horse in a human costume.

Shodai's able to thrust effectively, too. A well-rounded young rikishi, the full package. Time will tell, but I'm expecting big things from him in the future. I think we all are.

Kotoshigiku, man...when Hakuho is leaning on you like that, he /wants/ you to spend up all your energy. Well, Kotoshigiku's never been much of a "late game" sort of wrestler; this is a good example of why. 

[Rocks 1,807]

7 hours ago, Senkoho said:

Hasn't Hokutofuji ever seen an Ishiura bout before?

You have to wonder why he didn't just slap him down. Ishiura head was practically on the ground already.

[Rocks 1,807]

5 hours ago, robnplunder said:

On day 9, there was no big upset in Makuuchi division - none, nil, zero.  Disappointing.

 

Concerning Ura, after watching it again, two things are clear to me.

1. He actually lost.  Monoii should have been called and video replay should have given it to Onosho.
2. Ura's left hand/wrist is clearly injured.  After tachi-hai, Ura didn't even come close to using the left hand.   

It sure looked like Ura lost to me.

[Akinomaki 40,053]

18 hours ago, Asojima said:

18 hours ago, Dapeng said:

From a photo in this article,  it's clear that Goeindou's heel was out before Okinoumi's elbow touched down. 

It is clear that it is ON the bales, but also not (yet) touching the sand.

Edit:  Check Kinta's video at 12:16. A great closeup of the tarawa showing that the sand is undisturbed.

Okinoumi saw that the heel was still in and told so later, "I thought I lost." http://www.tokyo-np.co.jp/article/sports/list/201611/CK2016112102000125.html

The oyakata couldn't agree to a decision at the mono-ii conference, so basically Tomozuna decided on his own. He indeed afterwards tried to explain his weird explanation and decision as a case of shini-tai - that is a body out of control dropping down, regardless of in- or outside the dohyo - he said the heel and the whole body were already dropping down to the outside. Goeido had his body firm on the ground and was resisting till the last moment - and he never even dropped afterwards - he just stepped out after Okinoumi was down.

With this Tomozuna appears either as a villain or an idiot - in any case, he proved to be as unfit as injured Izutsu was for the post of vice-top shimpan.

Edited November 21, 2016 by Akinomaki

[Sakura 1,480]

8 hours ago, Gernobono said:

6 days left after today and teru has 2 yok, 2 ozeki, takayasu and tamawashi left...

starting with kakuryu on day 10

on the other hand, i might have missed some heya-infliction, but kisenosato might not be up against yoshikaze 

Sorry. You are right. I miscounted the gaps in the matrix. I thought my statement seemed wrong, but I counted the gaps and kept coming up with the wrong number. 

[Dapeng 233]

9 hours ago, Chiyozakura said:

I would say it is the other way round. The NSK can be responsible for everything but never be caught because whoever does something, be it the shimpan, the gyoji, the riji, the rijicho or whoever, are always just persons acting on the NSK's behalf but never the NSK itself. It is the perfect base for conspiracy theories. Even when it is pretty much proven that not everything is done to make Goeido the next Japanese Yokozuna it is not the NSK but only the shimpan and Okinoumi, who by the way is a deshi of the Rijicho. The NSK might still have the plan but has just forgotten to tell it to its most important members.

Whether there is or not the conspiracy, there will be no post-basho yokozuna promotion and the yusho winner will be among the three active yokozuna. Hope Kisenosato will be able to win 12 or 13 this basho so we can talk about his yokozuna promotion again next basho ......  

[Rocks 1,807]

25 minutes ago, Dapeng said:

Whether there is or not the conspiracy, there will be no post-basho yokozuna promotion and the yusho winner will be among the three active yokozuna. Hope Kisenosato will be able to win 12 or 13 this basho so we can talk about his yokozuna promotion again next basho ......  

I think it's highly likely one of the yokozuna win this but it's far from a given at this point IMO. None have looked overpowering to me. Yes, Kakuryu is 9-0 but he's gotten a couple breaks I think. He could easily still lose to the other 2 yokozuna and they could easily lose another themselves. I think a 13-2 yusho winner is still in the mix here.

[Akinomaki 40,053]

Sd23 Jokoryu is kachi-koshi after a year again at his return to the dohyo. He injured the right knee at the hatsu basho last year against Endo, kept on and won a kinboshi from Harumafuji before going kyujo for a few days. Not fully healed he re-injured the knee this year at the hatsu-basho and next couldn't win even in juryo. He opted for ACL and meniscus surgery and had it on June 3rd. That meant a drop out of the sekitori ranks, but he had continuous support, from his wife and from those around him.

The fastest ever from maezumo to makuuchi (9basho) next wants to go for Tochinoshin's record of back to sanyaku from the lowest rank ever (ms55).

http://www.nikkansports.com/battle/column/sumo/news/1740678.html

[robnplunder 975]

1 hour ago, Rocks said:

I think it's highly likely one of the yokozuna win this but it's far from a given at this point IMO. None have looked overpowering to me. Yes, Kakuryu is 9-0 but he's gotten a couple breaks I think. He could easily still lose to the other 2 yokozuna and they could easily lose another themselves. I think a 13-2 yusho winner is still in the mix here.

IMO, the three Yokozunas are dominating this basho.  None of them is "overpowering" others but they are all playing head and shoulders above the rest (and as they should be).   The only one who look good enough to play a spoiler role is Goeido.   Even with 3 losses at day 9, he looked strong as he did in the last basho.   With a couple of breaks going his way, he'd be 8-1 now and may be in contention for the yusho.

Edited November 21, 2016 by robnplunder

[Bumpkin 438]

I never noticed Tamawashi before.  He impresses the heck out of me.  He is big and strong with good balance and technique.  Question, when was the last time a Komusubi had 6 or more wins after Day 9?  Answer, Takayasu in July was 8-1.

Edited November 21, 2016 by Bumpkin

[dingo 1,212]

22 hours ago, Dapeng said:

Not only his heel, his entire body was also out of the ring. Probably the "dead body" rule was also applied. If the outside part of the tarawa is considered "inside " of the ring, his heel was the only part of his body remained inside. 

Not really, the dead body rule is only applied when a rikishi is falling and is not in control of his own body nor can do anything to influence his opponent. Goeido's case is the opposite -- he was in control of his body and was twisting Okinoumi down till the last moment. So yea, it is just as Akinomaki posted -- the head shinpan is either malevolent or just plain dumb. I somehow suspect the later, especially listening to his monoii explanation.

On today's bouts -- first of all wtf was Hidenoumi doing at the tachiai, taking an afternoon nap? Ichinojo was quicker to start than him for crying out loud.

Ishiura's not-so-little jump after kachikoshi was really funny, you could see he was genuinely elated. Good for him!

And to be honest, that tsuna was out of Goeido's reach anyway. You can be in the zone for one basho, but back to back yusho was perhaps a bit too much to expect. 

[Asashosakari 18,968]

Tomozuna already had a stint as head shimpan a few years ago (when they had that weird arrangement with two bosses and one deputy, rather than the other way around), and I vaguely recall him being not all that impressive in the role back then, too.

[shumitto 418]

Under normal circumstances Hakuho would be my favorite for the yusho, despite his one loss. But this time I don't see anyone clearly dominating, although my gut feeling tells me Harumafuji will take it. This lack of dominance is very good for sumo, but also a sign of The Yokozuna waning dominance. Kakuryu is backpedaling a lot, but on the way to a good record. If he finishes 13-2, it will be his only second such record; if he goes 14-1, it will the third time, the first since promotion. Terunofuji tomorrow will be a very good test to gauge his Yusho chances.

[robnplunder 975]

14 hours ago, Jyuunomori said:

I can't handle these Ura's man. Both of them are doing fabulous, even if both of them started with a loss (2 in Ura's case). What Ishiura is doing is incredible. He is already KK and Ura is just one short of a KK.We could see 10 wins from both. Ura would be promoted to Makuuchi and Ishiura would fly like an eagly and get special prize. Exciting stuff from the little guys.

Is this the same Terunofuji from the first two days of this tournament? What the hell happened on day 3 onwards?

Shodai is super calm and powerful this basho. He is going to be Komusubi, if not Sekiwake next basho. The rate he is improving is terrifying.

In closing:

COULD THIS BE ISHIURA'S BASHO?

To me, Ishiura is the biggest surprise so far and by far.   It's not the 8 wins he accumulated.   It's how he beat his bigger opponents.   He dominated his opponents, quite different from Ura's wins.    Can Ishiura sustain this in this and future basho?   We will see.   For now, I am enjoying every one of his matches.   

Let's not forget Satoyama.   Coming into this basho, I was concerned that another Kachi-koshi will send him to Makushita division.  He has completely dispelled my concern.  

[Morty 1,483]

12 hours ago, Dwale said:

 

Kisenosato has a way of reversing things at the bales, something Goeido knew very well going into this bout. Not a bad performance from Goeido, but he was simply outmatched by Kisenosato's wiles and ring sense.

Kisenosato is a bit of a one trick pony but a big part of that one trick is his excellent foot work. I bet he is a heck of a dancer 

[Bumpkin 438]

On 11/20/2016 at 16:44, Rocks said:

The hardest part of every Basho...waiting for the Promotion/Demotion thread.

Day 10 is upon us.  Less than 24 hours to go.  Tick...tick...tick...Any time now...

Edited November 22, 2016 by Bumpkin

[hamcornheinz 839]

1 hour ago, Morty said:

Kisenosato is a bit of a one trick pony 

O.O

[robnplunder 975]

On day 11, Ishiura faces a rikishi higher ranked than M10 for the 1st time.  He'd better enjoy today's match up against M14, Sokokurai.  No more bottom feeding after day 10.

Kisenosato a one trick pony?   I don't see that.   My definition of one trick pony is Kotoshogiku, Kotoyuki (although he tried an henka or two this time), Gagamaru, etc..