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Kintamayama

Get yer hands down-Kyushu 2016

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In a rare move, the Judging department through Nishonoseki Oyakata will be issuing a direct warning to all Oyakatas right after the Saturday dohyo-matsuri to make sure their guys get their hands down properly at the tachiai. Specifically named rikishi:  Kotoyuuki, Shouhouzan (who is Nishonoseki Oyakata's deshi..), Hidenoumi and Kitataiki. The rikishi themselves will be warned directly at the rikishi-kai. "We will be focusing on that. My guy (Shouhouzan) is especially doing this a lot..," said Nishonoseki.

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Well, I mean, they are supposed to. It's part of the game.

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I just hope we don't get another "matta, matta, matta, matta, matta, matta...." basho like the last time I remember them getting strict about it. I know it's the rules but it really breaks up the flow of things. 

Edited by Harry

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If they want to get serious about it, they should make all the rikishi watch videos of Yoshikaze and say: "Start exactly like that, or you forfeit the bout."

Forget having gyogi calling "Wait!" and restarting. Make not having both hands down a foul move (e.g. like hair-pulling) which can be called by any ringside shimpan or rikishi and examined in monoii.

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Is there a penalty for repeat offenders, like losing the match if mata is called on a rikishi twice in a row?   lIke double service faults in tennis?  like double fault start in track?   Without some form of harsh penalty, this wont't fixed.   

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2 hours ago, robnplunder said:

Is there a penalty for repeat offenders, like losing the match if mata is called on a rikishi twice in a row?   lIke double service faults in tennis?  like double fault start in track?   Without some form of harsh penalty, this wont't fixed.   

No.

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The penalty is that the oyakata theoretically aren't as nice to you.

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1 hour ago, Gurowake said:

The penalty is that the oyakata theoretically aren't as nice to you.

You get treated like Tochinoshin on the banzuke. You have no 'banzuke luck'.

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Then, what good are the warnings?  Things will continue as before and that will be just another part of the game.

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3 hours ago, robnplunder said:

 Perhaps, a high tech can be used to ensure all 4 hands are down before the bout becomes official.

They could borrow something from tennis and place some sort of sensors at or just under the clay. If both hands touch the dohyo, they provide an audio or video signal confirming that they do. I would think that four visual signals, one for each rikishi's hand, would interfere the least from the action. They could be monitored by a judge and if they all don't light up, he could call a matta and indicate which rikishi is at fault. That would take away pressure from the gyoji who could call the matta visually, as he always has done. To make this even more enforceable, there could be a "Three mattas and you forfeit the match" rule. 

Of course, this would go completely against past sumo tradition. But if video cameras are present to help the shimpan make decisions, this idea may not be so farfetched after all. 

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27 minutes ago, sekitori said:

They could borrow something from tennis and place some sort of sensors at or just under the clay. If both hands touch the dohyo, they provide an audio or video signal confirming that they do. I would think that four visual signals, one for each rikishi's hand, would interfere the least from the action. They could be monitored by a judge and if they all don't light up, he could call a matta and indicate which rikishi is at fault. That would take away pressure from the gyoji who could call the matta visually, as he always has done. To make this even more enforceable, there could be a "Three mattas and you forfeit the match" rule. 

Of course, this would go completely against past sumo tradition. But if video cameras are present to help the shimpan make decisions, this idea may not be so farfetched after all. 

I agree 100%.   Tradition changes, even the most unyielding ones.   Time changes everything.   

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I agree 100%.  Either enforce the rule or get rid of it.

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I'm looking forward to how they're gonna actually apply the rules this time at the basho. Video assistants and dohyo sensors and the likes just for confirming matta IMO will never make it to the sport, as it's a relatively trivial matter compared to other more important aspects. Besides, it adds to the drama and strategy, and I like seeing the offending rikishis' different bowing gestures to the shimpan :-P

Edited by d_golem
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I guess the battle between shimpan & rikishi on putting hands down is itself a tradition, eh?   Then, let the tradition continue.   ;-)

Edited by robnplunder

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11 minutes ago, d_golem said:

 Video assistants and dohyo sensors and the likes just for confirming matta IMO will never make it to the sport, as it's a relatively trivial matter compared to other more important aspects.

The rule is that both hands must touch the dohyo at the tachi-ai, giving neither rikishi an advantage. Rules involving fairness are definitely not trivial in nature. 

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The key is for Shimpans to strictly enforce the rule.  They hold the key.  Warning others to help them do their job is an ironical farce.

Edited by robnplunder

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Again??  Oh Jeez!  As usual...it's all just to make it like someone at the top is paying attention.  Things will settle down by the second week.  The first few days will be matta central though. :(

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5 hours ago, sekitori said:

They could borrow something from tennis and place some sort of sensors at or just under the clay.

I have no idea if you mean the net sensors (whose detection capabilities are rather iffy) or Hawkeye (which works fine, but is hugely complex), but neither system is in any way alike to what you're proposing here. Not to mention that any sort of sensor system that could actually achieve what you're thinking would likely cost six- or seven-figure dollar amounts and probably would have to be built in locations that interfere with the five shimpan's eyelines to the dohyo.

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30 minutes ago, Asashosakari said:

I have no idea if you mean the net sensors (whose detection capabilities are rather iffy) or Hawkeye (which works fine, but is hugely complex), but neither system is in any way alike to what you're proposing here. Not to mention that any sort of sensor system that could actually achieve what you're thinking would likely cost six- or seven-figure dollar amounts and probably would have to be built in locations that interfere with the five shimpan's eyelines to the dohyo.

I don't think coming up with a technology to suit the sumo game is that hard.   It will be quite easy and inexpensive.   Sensor technology in sports is everywhere in action, and for video replay: tennis, golf, baseball, soccer, ..., too many to mention.   

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5 hours ago, robnplunder said:

The key is for Shimpans to strictly enforce the rule.  They hold the key.  Warning others to help them do their job is an ironical farce.

This is protocol. The shimpan department always asks the Oyakata to enforce this and that. It's the Oyakatas' responsibility to enforce what the rijis decide. In all aspects. When a rikishi does something bad, his Oyakata is called on to reign rain rein him in.

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Rikishi must place all hands on the ground, a led-bar buried in the middle of the dohyo lights up. When the lights go out the bout starts. Just like F1. Two false starts means instant seppuku.

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