Jejima 1,346 Posted November 10, 2022 (edited) Hi all, If you have not done so yet - get your entry in - only a few hours until the deadline..... Here are the possible milestones for the November basho 2022. Many thanks to Takanorappa and his Bench Sumo stat page where are the good stuff can be mined --> <http://www.takanorappa.com/ichimons.htm> Please forgive this space below - I can't work out how to delete it in a timely manner (copying and pasting error, probably). Any all the stuff is below... There are ten parts. 1. The players at a new career high rank. 2. The number of active bashos (multiples of 10) - *if* the player turns up in November. 3. Players who have a chance (even if very remote) of going to a new 'multiple of 100' career wins in November. 4. The current top 20 leaderboard for the *all-time* total number of wins. 5. The current top 20 leaderboard for the highest win percentage for *active* players. 6. The top 20 biggest earners from the September 2022 basho. 7. The top 20 biggest earners of all time. 8. The top 20 kensho winners for the September 2022 basho. (Kensho are sponsorships for bouts) 9. The top 20 biggest kensho winners of all time. 10. The top 20 active players with the highest MCP Enjoy! At a career high rank ms18E Boltbanana (second time in-a-row on this list) ms12E BariHachiBens (second time) ms11W Tochiyatsu (second time) ms5W Beeftank (second time) J12W KonyaGaYamada J10W KamiBaka J8E Netsuzakura J7W Basoyama S1E chishafuwaku O1W toonoryu (third time) O1E pandaazuma (fourth time) Number of active bashos (If they are active in November 2022.) ms19E Tochidoro - 10 J12W KonyaGaYamada - 10 J3E Nantonoyama - 20 K1W Joaoiyama - 20 ms2E Kashunowaka - 30 .........40 .........50 M7E Yangnomazuma - 60 J14E Gusoyama - 70 J6W Gawasukotto - 70 .........80 J1W Anjoboshi - 90 .........100 ms16E Heiyu - 110 S2E Norizo - 110 M7W Jakusotsu - 120 J5W Takanorappa - 130 Possible career win milestones this basho: (Current career wins in brackets) 100 wins Nobody here 200 wins Nobody here 300 wins Nobody here 400 wins J7W Basoyama (392) 500 wins Nobody here 600 wins Nobody here 700 wins ms1E Mmikasazuma (689) - second time on the watch list M10W Itachi (696) - 2nd time 800 wins J12E Watashi (785) ms10W shimodahito (786) M5E Terarno (789) 900 wins M7W Jakusotsu (888) J9W Sherlockiama (890) - 2nd time 1000 wins Nobody here Top 20 winningest players of all-time Frinkanohana has knocked Doitsuyama out of the 20 winningest players of all time! 1. (=) M12W Chijanofuji - 1019 2. (=) M2W Kintamayama - 1016 3. (=) M4E Oshirokita - 1013 4. (=) ms4E Jejima - 1010 5. (=) M2E Gaijiingai - 973 6. (=) J5W Takanorappa - 960 7. (=) ms3E Flohru - 915 8. (=) J9W Sherlockiama - 890 9. (=) M7W Jakusotsu - 888 10. (=) S2E Norizo - 878 11. (=) S1W Pitinosato - 870 12. (=) M8W Kitakachiyama - 869 13. (=) J13E Fujisan - 839 14. (=) M11W Metzinowaka - 835 15. (=) ms15E Marushiki - 826 16. (+1) K2E Konosato - 825 17. (-1) BG Taka* - 824 18. (=) K1E Susanoo - 822 19. (=) M2E Rubensan - 820 20. (NE) M9W Frinkanohana - 815 *Not currently active Top 20 active players with the highest winning percentage Beeftank holds onto to the top spot. 1. (=) ms5W Beeftank (0.633) =2. (+3) J2W Gansekiiwa (0.579) =2. (+1) K1W Joaoiyama (0.579) 4. (=) J8E Netsuzakura (0.567) 5. (NE) J12W KonyaGaYamada (0-556) =6. (+1) M16E Andoreasu (0.549) =6. (+2) J1E Oskanohana (0.549) =8. (+4) J13W Danjinoumi (0.546) =8. (+3) M17E Golynohana (0.546) 10. (-4) ms1W Balon (0.543) =11. (+6) M17E Oyama (0.542) =11. (-2) M15W Kaito (0.542) 13. (-3) M9E Hogashi (0.541) 14. (+2) O1E pandaazuma (0.538) 15. (=) S2E Norizo (0.537) 16. (+2) ms3E Flohru (0.535) =17. (NE) ms12E BariiHachiBens (0.533) =17. (-4) ms9E Andrasoyama (0,533) =17. (+3) M13E Saruyama (0.533) =17. (+2) M6E ScreechingOwl (0.533) Top 20 biggest earners (with September 2022 ranks) in the September basho 2022 (in Yen) I don't think that I can recall anyone earning over 30 million in one tournament. Well done to Pitinosato, who earned more than double pandaazuma in second place! (This list excludes retired Taka, as the basho paycheck page only shows active players, for some reason....) 1. (+16) M4W Pitinosato ¥30,574,700 2. (+2) O1E pandaazuma ¥14,337,100 3. (+4) O1W Norizo ¥13,150,100 4. (+4) S1W chishafuwaku ¥12,937,700 5. (-3) O2W toonoryu ¥12,462,100 6. (NE) S2E Kaiowaka ¥11,396,700 7. (-4) K1E Susanoo ¥10,766,700 8. (NE) M16W Chocshoporyu ¥10,733,700 9. (+5) M4E Konosato ¥10,341,700 10. (NE) M7E Gaijingai ¥10,288,700 11. (-1) M4E Rubensan ¥10,129,700 12. (+1) M1E Joaoiyama ¥9,373,700 13. (+2) M3E Oshirokita ¥8,759,700 14. (+4) M1W Terarno ¥8,691,700 15. (-6) M6E Kintamayama ¥8,677,700 16. (NE) J1W Kitakachiyama ¥8,087,130 17. (-1) M2W ScreechingOwl ¥8,083,700 18. (-6) M3W Hana-ichi ¥8,072,700 19. (-8) K1W Holleshoryu ¥7,881,700 20. (NE) M10W Kotononami ¥7,312,700 Top 20 biggest earners of all time (in Yen) Flohru is still on top! Amazingly banzuke-gai Taka is a NEW entry into the top 20! 1. (=) ms3E Flohru ¥1,196,420,600 2. (=) M2E Gaijingai ¥1,182,990,200 3. (=) M2W Kintamayama ¥1,125,425,490 4. (=) J4E Itachiyama ¥1,057,914,910 5. (=) S2E Norizo ¥1,027,366,170 6. (=) BG Doitsuyama* ¥1,012,670,880 7. (+1) S1W Pitinosato ¥938,139,300 8. (-1) M12W Chijanofuji ¥932,357,550 9. (+1) K2E Konosato ¥863,076,090 10. (-1) BG Leonishiki* ¥862,858,040 11. (=) BG Randomitsuki* ¥850,841,310 12. (=) M11W Metzinowaka ¥843,363,620 13. (=) K1E Susanoo ¥827,089,580 14. (=) BG Rannohana* ¥783,953,660 15. (=) M4E Oshirokita ¥771,701,350 16. (=) ms4E Jejima ¥744,873,170 17. (=) M9W Frinkanohana ¥729,878,630 18. (=) BG Damimonay* ¥716,193,180 19. (=) M1W Rubensan ¥700,767,160 20. (NE) BG Taka* ¥697,463,200 *Not currently active. Top 20 kensho winners (with September 2022 ranks) in September 2022 (Taka not included, as he is no longer active) Several players break the 100 kensho mark, with chishafuwaku topping the lot. 1. (+2) S1W chishafuwaku 147 2. (+16) M4W Pitinosato 133 3. (+1) O1E pandaazuma 131 4. (NE) S2E Kaiowaka 112 =5. (+2) M1E Joaoiyama 106 =5. (+11) O1W Norizo 106 7. (-2) K1E Susanoo 105 =8. (+3) M2E Rubensan 98 =8. (+7) M4E Konosato 98 =8. (-7) S1W toonoryu 98 11. (NE) M7E Gaijingai 87 12. (+1) M1W Terarno 80 13. (-5) M3W Hana-ichi 79 14. (-1) M7W Oshirokita 76 15. (-9) K1W Holleshoryu 74 16. (-6) M2W ScreechingOwl 72 17. (NE) M5E Yangnomazuma 64 18. (NE) M10W Kotononami 63 19. (-7) M6E Kintamayama 62 20. (NE) M9W Unkonoyama 61 Top 20 kensho winners of all time Kintamayama has overtaken Doitsuyama. A few other changes, including banzuke-gai Taka jumping two places, as he goes out with a bang! 1. (=) M2E Gaijingai 9368 2. (=) ms3E Flohru 9261 3. (=) S2E Norizo 8464 4. (+1) M2W Kintamayama 8166 5. (-1) BG Doitsuyama* 8145 6. (+1) S1W Pitinosato 7382 7. (-1) J4E Itachiyama 7261 8. (=) BG Randomitsuki* 6973 9. (=) K2E Konosato 6740 10. (=) M12W Chijanofuji 6605 11. (=) BG Leonishiki* 6485 12. (=) BG Rannohana* 6440 13. (+1) K1E Susanoo 6287 14. (-1) M11W Metzinowaka 6207 15. (=) M10W Itachi 5333 16. (+2) BG Taka* 5305 17. (=) M1W Rubensan 5287 18. (-2) BG Damimonay* 5259 19. (=) M4E Oshirokita 5012 20. (=) M6E ScreechingOwl 4889 *Not currently active Top 20 active players with the highest average MCP Golynohana is back on top! He is one of the four in the top ten not affiliated to an ichimon.... Oyakatas, get recruiting! 1. (+2) M12E Golynohana 8.6232. (-1) ms5W Beeftank 8.6193. (-1) J8E Netsuzakura 8.6124. (=) J1E Oskanohana 8.5135. (=) ms3E Flohru 8.4786. (=) S2E Norizo 8.4107. (=) M8E Sakura 8.3868. (+1) M2E Gaijingai 8.3459. (+2) K2E Konosato 8.31410. (=) M16E Andoreasu 8.298 11. (+1) O1E pandaazuma 8.263 12. (+4) S1W Pitinosato 8.243 13. (+5) J2W Gansekiiwa 8.233 14. (=) J4E Itachiyama 8.213 15. (+2) K1W Joaoiyama 8.201 15. (-1) M6E ScreechingOwl 8.185 16. (NE) M1W Rubensan 8.167 17. (-2) M14E Yamashade 8.162 18. (NE) J12W KonyaGaYamada 8.134 =19. (NE) K1E Susanoo 8.133 =19. (NE) M2W Kintamayama 8.133 Get those milestones! Jejima (BS rijicho) Edited November 10, 2022 by Jejima 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jejima 1,346 Posted December 17, 2022 Hi everyone! This new banzuke is taking longer than usual to put together, partly due to the need of promoting an Ozeki, partly due to the logjam in the joi-jin, but mostly due with me being incredibly busy. The full new banzuke will be announced soon. But, I am very pleased to announce (after a split vote, including the retired banzuke makers), that we have decided upon the new Ozeki for the January banzuke. It will be....... Ozeki Joaoiyama! His record over the past three bashos are as follows.... M5W - 10-5 M1E - 9-6 K1W - 10-5 So he is rather on the lucky side for his promotion. We wish him well, and look forward to hearing his promotion speech. Jejima (BS rijicho) Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jejima 1,346 Posted December 20, 2022 Hi all, Here is the new banzuke for January 2022. It was one of the trickiest ones to make of all time! There is a LOT of bad luck - especially in Makunouchi. Those of a nervous disposition, look away now! For those that celebrate it, may I wish you a Merry Christmas. Happy New Year to everyone! Many thanks to everybody who has kept this game running smoothly in 2022. Onwards and upwards to 2023! Jejima (BS Rijicho) pandaazuma (O1E, 4-11) O1 Joaoiyama (K1W, 10-5)Bill (S2W, 11-4) S1 Pitinosato (S1W, 10-5)toonoryu (O1W, 7-8) S2Kaiowaka (M1E, 9-6) K1 chishafuwaku (S1E, 7-8)Gaijingai (M2E, 8-7) M1 Rubensan (M1W, KOSHO)Kotononami (M3W, 8-7) 2 Sakura (M8E, 10-5)Holleshoryu (M3E, KOSHO) 3 Hana-ichi (M4W, 8-7)Terarno (M5E, 8-7) 4 Hogashi (M9E, 10-5) Yangnomazuma (M7E, 9-6) 5 Jakusotsu (M7W, 9-6)Susanoo (K1E, 7-8) 6 Konosato (K2E, 7-8)Norizo (S2E, 6-9) 7 Golynohana (M12E, 10-5)Oshirokita (M4E, 7-8) 8 andonishiki (M15E, 11-4)Kintamayama (M2W, 6-9) 9 Hokuyutaka (M5W, 6-9)Chocshoporyu (M10E, KOSHO) 10 Unkonoyama (M6W, 6-9)tainosen (M11E, KOSHO) 11 Ruziklao (M14W, 9-6) Frinkanohana (M9W, 7-8) 12 Kaito (M15W, 9-6)Saruyama (M13E, KOSHO) 13 Kasamatsuri (M13W, KOSHO)ScreechingOwl (M6E, 5-10) 14 Kitakachiyama (M8W, 6-9)Metzinowaka (M11W, 7-8) 15 Itachi (M10W, 6-9)Nantonoyama (J3E, 10-5) 16 Tameiki (M16W, KOSHO)Akishiki (J6E, 11-4) 17 Chijanofuji (M12W, 5-10)Oskanohana (J1E, 8-7) 18kuroimori (J2E, 8-7) J1 Anjoboshi (J1W, KOSHO)Itachiyama (J4E, 9-6) 2 Gansekiiwa (J2W, KOSHO)Yamashade (M14E, 5-10) 3 Roundeye (J3W, KOSHO)Sherlockiama (J9W, 10-5) 4 Takanorappa (J5W, 8-7)Achiyama (J5E, KOSHO) 5 KamiBaka (J10W, 10-5)Gawasukotto (J6W, 8-7) 6 Oyama (M17E, 5-10)Andoreasu (M16E, 4-11) 7 Balon (ms1W, 12-3)GONZABUROW (J10E, 8-7) 8 iwakoko (J14W, 10-5)Netsuzakura (J8E, 7-8) 9 tokugawa (J11W, 8-7)Kitahotaru (J9E, 7-8) 10 Chelseayama (J7E, 6-9)Basoyama (J7W, 6-9) 11 KonyaGaYamada (J12W, 8-7)Fujisan (J13E, 8-7) 12 Athenayama (ms2W, 9-6)Getayukata (J8W, 5-10) 13 Kyodaitimu (ms4W, 9-6)Oortael (J11E, 6-9) 14 VESHANA (ms8E, 10-5) Gusoyama (J14E, 7-8) ms1 aoyume (J4W, 2-13)Flohru (ms3E, 8-7) 2 Tsunamiko (ms3W, 8-7)Jejima (ms4E, 8-7) 3 Watashi (J12E, 5-10)Mmikasazuma (ms1E, 6-9) 4 Kishikaisei (ms6W, 8-7)Kashunowaka (ms2E, 6-9) 5 Unagiyutaka (ms9W, 9-6) Mariohana (ms15W, 11-4) 6 shimodahito (ms10W, 9-6)Danjinoumi (J13W, 4-11) 7 Wamahada (ms6E, 7-8) Andrasoyama (ms9E, 8-7) 8 Kintsubasa (ms7E, 7-8)Rowitoro (ms5E, 6-9) 9 Beeftank (ms5W, 6-9)Tenshinhan (ms20W, 11-4) 10 Kuramarujo (ms7W, 6-9)hofudaryu (ms14W, 8-7) 11 Heiyu (ms16E, 8-7)Bunijiman (ms16W, 8-7) 12 Maeden (ms12W, KOSHO)Akokoneko (ms10E, 6-9) 13 Fujiko (ms17E, 8-7)Homuburyuwa (ms13E, 7-8) 14 Kaba (ms11E, 6-9)Baku (ms17W, 8-7) 15 Aminoumi (ms14E, 7-8)Kitanoyama (ms20E, 8-7) 16 Kofujinokami (ms21E, 8-7)BariiHachiBenson (ms12E, 4-11) 17 Marushiki (ms15E, 5-10)Boltbanana (ms18E, 6-9) 18 Rikishimiezi (ms18W, KOSHO)Nekonishiki (ms13W, 3-12) 19 Hironoumi (ms19W, KOSHO)Banzuke-gaiFuranohana (ms8W, 0-0-15)Tochiyatsu (ms11W, 0-0-15)Tochidoro (ms19E, 0-0-15) 3 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jakusotsu 5,874 Posted December 21, 2022 15 hours ago, Jejima said: There is a LOT of bad luck - especially in Makunouchi. Those of a nervous disposition, look away now! Wow - those Komusubi must really be kicking themselves now for not getting one more win. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jejima 1,346 Posted January 3, 2023 Hi all,Here are the possible milestones for the January basho 2023.Many thanks to Takanorappa and his Bench Sumo stat page where are the good stuff can be mined --> <http://www.takanorappa.com/ichimons.htm>There are ten parts.1. The players at a new career high rank.2. The number of active bashos (multiples of 10) - *if* the player turns up in January.3. Players who have a chance (even if very remote) of going to a new 'multiple of 100' career wins in January. 4. The current top 20 leaderboard for the *all-time* total number of wins.5. The current top 20 leaderboard for the highest win percentage for *active* players.6. The top 20 biggest earners from the November 2022 basho.7. The top 20 biggest earners of all time.8. The top 20 kensho winners for the November 2022 basho. (Kensho are sponsorships for bouts)9. The top 20 biggest kensho winners of all time.10. The top 20 active players with the highest MCPEnjoy!At a career high rankms18E Boltbanana (third time in-a-row on this list) ms15E Baku (my oldest son!) ms11E hofudaryu J11W KonyaGaYamada (second time) J7W Balon (shin-Juryo) J5W KamiBaka (second time) M5E Yangnomazuma M4W Hogashi O1W Joaoiyama (shin-Ozeki) O1E pandaazuma (fifth time) Number of active bashos (If they are active in November 2022.) J9E Netsuzakura - 10 M4W Hogashi - 20 J14E Oortael - 20 M2W Sakura - 30 .........40 M17E Akishiki - 50 ms13W Fujiko - 50 ms10W Kuramarujo - 60 J1E kuroimori - 70 .........80 J1W Anjoboshi - 90 (2nd time) .........100 ms6W shimodahito - 110 .........120 .........130 Possible career win milestones this basho: (Current career wins in brackets) 100 wins ms8E Andrasoyama (88) 200 wins J5W KamiBaka (190) 300 wins Nobody here 400 wins ms15W Aminoumi (385) J13W Kyodaitimu (390) J11E Basoyama (398) - second time on the watch list 500 wins Nobody here 600 wins Nobody here 700 wins ms4E Mmikasazuma (695) - third time 800 wins ms9E Rowitoro (786) ms3W Watashi (790) - second time ms6W shimodahito (795) - second time M4E Terarno (797) - second time 900 wins M5W Jakusotsu (897) - second time 1000 wins Nobody here Top 20 winningest players of all-time No change in the ranks of the top 14. But the next six are all do-si-doing 1. (=) M17W Chijanofuji - 1024 2. (=) M9E Kintamayama - 1022 3. (=) M8E Oshirokita - 1020 4. (=) ms3E Jejima - 1018 5. (=) M1E Gaijiingai - 981 6. (=) J4W Takanorappa - 968 7. (=) ms2E Flohru - 923 8. (=) J4E Sherlockiama - 900 9. (=) M5W Jakusotsu - 897 10. (=) M7E Norizo - 884 11. (=) S1W Pitinosato - 880 12. (=) M14W Kitakachiyama - 875 13. (=) J12E Fujisan - 847 14. (=) M15E Metzinowaka - 842 15. (+1) M6W Konosato - 832 16. (-1) ms17W Marushiki - 831 17. (+1) M6E Susanoo - 829 18. (-1) BG Taka* - 824 19. (+1) M12E Frinkanohana - 822 20. (-1) M1W Rubensan - 820 *Not currently active Top 20 active players with the highest winning percentage Shin-Ozeki Joaoiyama is back on top. 1. (+1) O1W Joaoiyama (0.583) 2. (=) J2W Gansekiiwa (0.579) 3. (+7) J7W Balon (0.575) =4. (-3) ms9W Beeftank (0.556) =4. (=) J9E Netsuzakura (0.556) 6. (-1) J11W KonyaGaYamada (0.553) 7. (-1) M18E Oskanohana (0.549) 8. (=) M7W Golynohana (0.548) 9. (+4) M9E Hogashi (0.547) 10. (+1) M15W Kaito (0.545) 11. (NE) ms10E Tenshinhan (0.543) 12. (-6) J7E Andoreasu (0.540) =13. (-5) ms7E Danjinoumi (0.536) =13. (+2) S2E Norizo (0.536) =13. (NE) M2W Sakura (0.536) =16. (=) ms2E Flohru (0.535) =16. (-2) O1E pandaazuma (0.535) =18. (-1) ms8E Andrasoyama (0,533) =18. (-1) M13E Saruyama (0.533) 20. (NE) S1E Bill (0.532) Top 20 biggest earners (with November 2022 ranks) in the November basho 2022 (in Yen) Makunouchi yusho winner Bill easily tops the ranks. (The Juryo yusho winner - Akishiki - doesn't quite make the list, coming in at #21).1. (NE) S2W Bill ¥23,336,700 2. (+10) K1W Joaoiyama ¥14,728,700 3. (-2) S1W Pitinosato ¥14,165,700 4. (+2) M1E Kaiowaka ¥14,092,700 5. (=) O1W toonoryu ¥13,752,100 6. (-2) S1E chishafuwaku ¥10,597,700 7. (+3) M2E Gaijingai ¥10,577,700 8. (-5) S2E Norizo ¥10,567,700 9. (-7) O1E pandaazuma ¥10,347,100 10. (-3) K1E Susanoo ¥10,241,700 11. (-2) K2E Konosato ¥10,081,700 12. (+1) M3E Oshirokita ¥9,134,700 13. (+7) M3W Kotononami ¥8,866,700 14. (+1) M2W Kintamayama ¥8,612,700 15. (-1) M5E Terarno ¥8,465,700 16. (+2) M4W Hana-ichi ¥8,156,700 17. (NE) M7W Jakusotsu ¥8,038,700 18. (NE) M8E Sakura ¥7,754,700 19. (NE) M7E Yangnomazuma ¥7,706,700 20. (NE) M11W Metzinowaka ¥7,160,700 Top 20 biggest earners of all time (in Yen) For the first time ever (that I can recall), there is no change in the top 20 ranks! 1. (=) ms2E Flohru ¥1,196,595,600 2. (=) M1E Gaijingai ¥1,193,567,900 3. (=) M9E Kintamayama ¥1,134,038,190 4. (=) J2E Itachiyama ¥1,062,284,040 5. (=) M7E Norizo ¥1,037,933,870 6. (=) BG Doitsuyama* ¥1,012,670,880 7. (=) S1W Pitinosato ¥952,305,000 8. (=) M17W Chijanofuji ¥938,861,250 9. (=) M6W Konosato ¥873,157,790 10. (-1) BG Leonishiki* ¥862,858,040 11. (=) BG Randomitsuki* ¥850,841,310 12. (=) M15E Metzinowaka ¥850,524,320 13. (=) M6E Susanoo ¥837,331,280 14. (=) BG Rannohana* ¥783,953,660 15. (=) M8E Oshirokita ¥780,836,050 16. (=) ms3E Jejima ¥745,048,170 17. (=) M12E Frinkanohana ¥736,762,330 18. (=) BG Damimonay* ¥716,193,180 19. (=) M1W Rubensan ¥705,465,160 20. (=) BG Taka* ¥697,463,200 *Not currently active. Top 20 kensho winners (with November 2022 ranks) in November 2022 Bill manages to get a 'Daddy Century' (See 'cricket'), with Pitinosato not far behind. The highest ranked player in the game - O1E pandaazuma - does not even make it into the top 20! (He's #21, in case you're curious.) 1. (NE) S2W Bill 150 2. (=) M4W Pitinosato 145 3. (+2) K1W Joaoiyama 129 4. (+4) O1W toonoryu 122 =5. (-4) S1E chishafuwaku 105 =5. (-1) M1E Kaiowaka 105 7. (=) K1E Susanoo 96 =8. (=) K2E Konosato 92 =8. (+3) M2E Gaijingai 92 10. (+8) M3W Kotononami 91 11. (-6) O1W Norizo 87 12. (+2) M4E Oshirokita 83 13. (=) M4W Hana-ichi 81 14. (NE) M8E Sakura 79 15. (-3) M5E Terarno 76 16. (+1) M7E Yangnomazuma 75 17. (NE) M7W Jakusotsu 71 =18. (NE) M9E Hogashi 66 =18. (NE) M12E Golynohana 66 20. (-1) M2W Kintamayama 61 Top 20 kensho winners of all time No changes in the ranking here, either! 1. (=) M1E Gaijingai 9460 2. (=) ms2E Flohru 9261 3. (=) M7E Norizo 8551 4. (=) M9E Kintamayama 8227 5. (=) BG Doitsuyama* 8145 6. (=) S1W Pitinosato 7527 7. (=) J2E Itachiyama 7261 8. (=) BG Randomitsuki* 6973 9. (=) M6W Konosato 6832 10. (=) M17W Chijanofuji 6635 11. (=) BG Leonishiki* 6485 12. (=) BG Rannohana* 6440 13. (=) M6E Susanoo 6383 14. (=) M15E Metzinowaka 6248 15. (=) M15W Itachi 5369 16. (=) BG Taka* 5305 17. (=) M1W Rubensan 5287 18. (=) BG Damimonay* 5259 19. (=) M8E Oshirokita 5095 20. (=) M14E ScreechingOwl 4932 *Not currently active Top 20 active players with the highest average MCP Beeftank has switched places - again - with Golynohana, and is back on top. A big leap into the top 10 by KonyaGaYamada. 1. (+1) ms9W Beeftank 8.710 2. (-1) M7W Golynohana 8.632 3. (=) J9E Netsuzakura 8.550 4. (=) M18E Oskanohana 8.511 5. (=) ms2E Flohru 8.490 6. (=) M7E Norizo 8.399 7. (=) M2W Sakura 8.375 8. (=) M1E Gaijingai 8.342 9. (=) M6W Konosato 8.304 10. (+8) J11W KonyaGaYamada 8.291 11. (+1) S1W Pitinosato 8.246 12. (NE) J7W Balon 8.241 13. (-3) J7E Andoreasu 8.236 14. (-3) O1E pandaazuma 8.235 15. (-2) J2W Gansekiiwa 8.233 16. (-1) O1W Joaoiyama 8.224 17. (-3) J2E Itachiyama 8.207 18. (-3) M14E ScreechingOwl 8.173 19. (-3) M1W Rubensan 8.167 20. (NE) M12W Kaito 8.142 Get those milestones! Jejima (BS rijicho) 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Gernobono 463 Posted January 3, 2023 (edited) i know that shikonachanges are not considered for milestones but gebono/gernobono/ tokugawa has a combined 130th basho in january and i like being part of this game for quite some time Edited January 3, 2023 by Gernobono 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Zentoryu 154 Posted January 3, 2023 On 20/12/2022 at 09:26, Jejima said: Hi all, Here is the new banzuke for January 2022. It was one of the trickiest ones to make of all time! There is a LOT of bad luck - especially in Makunouchi. Those of a nervous disposition, look away now! Susanoo (K1E, 7-8) 6 Konosato (K2E, 7-8)Norizo (S2E, 6-9) 7 Golynohana (M12E, 10-5) Its times like these that I am grateful to no longer be involved in banzuke making for Bench Sumo (or any game for that matter) as this would've given me an aneurysm. 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Flohru 176 Posted February 3, 2023 With our rijicho currently occupied by real life, it is my honour to send out the new bench banzuke put together by Jejima, Sakura and Flohru, with Kintamayama, Ekiogozan, Kaiomitsuki and Asashosakari looking on. This one was fairly easy to arrange and there is lots of good banzuke luck - with the unfortunate exception of upper Makushita. pandaazuma (O1E, 9-6) O1 Joaoiyama (O1W, KOSHO) toonoryu (S2E, 9-6) S1 Bill (S1E, KOSHO) chishafuwaku (K1W, 8-7) K1 Rubensan (M1W, 9-6) Gaijingai (M1E, 8-7) K2 Hana-ichi (M3W, 9-6) Hogashi (M4W, 9-6) M1 Sakura (M2W, 8-7) Holleshoryu (M3E, 8-7) 2 Hokuyutaka (M9W, 11-4) Norizo (M7E, 9-6) 3 Oshirokita (M8E, 9-6) andonishiki (M8W, 9-6) 4 Konosato (M6W, 8-7) Kaiowaka (K1E, 5-10) 5 Kotononami (M2E, 6-9) Pitinosato (S1W, 4-11) 6 Unkonoyama (M10W, 9-6) Susanoo (M6E, 7-8) 7 Terarno (M4E, 6-9) Yangnomazuma (M5E, 6-9) 8 Kasamatsuri (M13W, 10-5) Chocshoporyu (M10E, 8-7) 9 Kaito (M12W, 9-6) Jakusotsu (M5W, 5-10) 10 Kitakachiyama (M14W, 8-7) Akishiki (M17E, 9-6) 11 Metzinowaka (M15E, 8-7) tainosen (M11E, 7-8) 12 Kintamayama (M9E, 6-9) Golynohana (M7W, 5-10) 13 Frinkanohana (M12E, 7-8) Ruziklao (M11W, 6-9) 14 kuroimori (J1E, 9-6) ScreechingOwl (M14E, 7-8) 15 Balon (J7W, 12-3) Nantonoyama (M16E, KOSHO) 16 GONZABUROW (J8E, 12-3) iwakoko (J8W, 12-3) 17 Oskanohana (M18E, KOSHO) Gansekiiwa (J2W, 9-6) J1 Itachi (M15W, 6-9) Itachiyama (J2E, KOSHO) 2 Anjoboshi (J1W, 7-8) Saruyama (M13E, 4-11) 3 Chijanofuji (M17W, 6-9) Netsuzakura (J9E, 10-5) 4 Andoreasu (J7E, 8-7) Sherlockiama (J4E, 7-8) 5 tokugawa (J9W, 9-6) Achiyama (J5E, 7-8) 6 Roundeye (J3W, 6-9) Gawasukotto (J6E, 7-8) 7 Oyama (J6W, 7-8) Basoyama (J11E, 9-6) 8 Yamashade (J3E, 5-10) Takanorappa (J4W, 5-10) 9 Athenayama (J12W, 8-7) VESHANA (J14W, 8-7) 10 Flohru (ms2E, 9-6) Unagiyutaka (ms5W, 10-5) 11 Gusoyama (ms1E, 8-7) Heiyu (ms11W, 12-3) 12 Fujisan (J12E, 7-8) Getayukata (J13E, KOSHO) 13 Kitahotaru (J10E, 6-9) Chelseayama (J10W, 6-9) 14 Tameiki (M16W, 0-0-15) KamiBaka (J5W, 3-12) ms1 Oortael (J14E, 7-8) KonyaGaYamada (J11W, 5-10) 2 Tsunamiko (ms2W, KOSHO) Danjinoumi (ms7E, 9-6) 3 Mariohana (ms6E, 8-7) Mmikasazuma (ms4E, KOSHO) 4 Kishikaisei (ms4W, KOSHO) Homuburyuwa (ms14E, 11-4) 5 shimodahito (ms6W, 8-7) Rowitoro (ms9E, 9-6) 6 Wamahada (ms7W, 8-7) Jejima (ms3E, 7-8) 7 Tenshinhan (ms10E, 9-6) Kyodaitimu (J13W, 5-10) 8 BariiHachiBenson (ms17E, 11-4) Kashunowaka (ms5E, 7-8) 9 aoyume (ms1W, 5-10) hofudaryu (ms11E, 8-7) 10 Watashi (ms3W, 5-10) Andrasoyama (ms8E, 7-8) 11 Kintsubasa (ms8W, 7-8) Beeftank (ms9W, 7-8) 12 Nekonishiki (ms19E, 10-5) Boltbanana (ms18E, 9-6) 13 Kuramarujo (ms10W, 6-9) Fujiko (ms13W, 7-8) 14 Tochiyatsu (ms20W, 8-7) Akokoneko (ms13E, 6-9) 15 Baku (ms15E, 6-9) Kitanoyama (ms16E, KOSHO) 16 Bunijiman (ms12E, 4-11) Kofujinokami (ms16W, 6-9) 17 Kaba (ms14W, 5-10) Marushiki (ms17W, 6-9) 18 Aminoumi (ms15W, 5-10) Rikishimiezi (ms18W, 6-9) 19 Kajiyanosho (ms21E, 7-8) Furanohana (ms20E, 6-9) 20 Banzuke-gai Maeden (ms12W, 0-0-15) Hironoumi (ms19W, 0-0-15) 3 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jejima 1,346 Posted April 14, 2023 Hi all! Here is the new banzuke for May 2023, put together by Flohru, Jejima and Sakura, with Kintamayama, Ekigozan, Asashosakari and Kaiomitsuki watching on. Not that tricky, this time around. Here it is! Joaoiyama (O1W, 10-5) O1 pandaazuma (O1E, 9-6)toonoryu (S1E, 8-7) S1 chishafuwaku (K1E, 8-7)Oshirokita (M3W, 10-5) K1 Norizo (M3E, 9-6)Sakura (M1W, 8-7) K2 Rubensan (K1W, KOSHO) Konosato (M4W, 9-6) M1 Chocshoporyu (M9E, 11-4)Bill (S1W, 6-9) 2 Hokuyutaka (M2W, KOSHO)Hogashi (M1E, 7-8) 3 Gaijingai (K2E, 6-9)Holleshoryu (M2E, 7-8) 4 Susanoo (M7E, 9-6)Hana-ichi (K2W, 5-10) 5 andonishiki (M4E, 7-8)Kaito (M9W, 9-6) 6 Yangnomazuma (M8E, 8-7)Unkonoyama (M6W, 7-8) 7 Jakusotsu (M10E, 8-7)Kaiowaka (M5E, 6-9) 8 Terarno (M7W, 7-8)Pitinosato (M6E, 6-9) 9 ScreechingOwl (M15E, 10-5)Frinkanohana (M13W, 9-6) 10 Metzinowaka (M11W, 8-7)Akishiki (M11E, KOSHO) 11 Kintamayama (M12W, 8-7)Golynohana (M13E, 8-7) 12 Kotononami (M5W, 5-10)Nantonoyama (M16E, 9-6) 13 GONZABUROW (M16W, 9-6) iwakoko (M17E, 9-6) 14 Balon (M15W, 8-7)Kasamatsuri (M8W, 6-9) 15 kuroimori (M14W, 7-8)Kitakachiyama (M10W, 5-10) 16 Andoreasu (J4W, 10-5)Saruyama (J3E, 9-6) 17 Gansekiiwa (J1E, 8-7) Itachi (J1W, 8-7) J1 Roundeye (J6W, 10-5)tokugawa (J5W, 9-6) 2 Anjoboshi (J2W, KOSHO)tainosen (M12E, 4-11) 3 Getayukata (J13E, 11-4)Ruziklao (M14E, 4-11) 4 Gawasukotto (J7E, 8-7)Sherlockiama (J5E, KOSHO) 5 Oskanohana (M17W, 5-10)Netsuzakura (J4E, 7-8) 6 KamiBaka (ms1E, 13-2)Achiyama (J6E, 7-8) 7 Fujisan (J12W, 10-5) Itachiyama (J2E, 5-10) 8 Athenayama (J9W, 8-7)Oyama (J7W, 7-8) 9 Chijanofuji (J3W, 5-10)VESHANA (J10E, KOSHO) 10 Basoyama (J8E, 7-8)Yamashade (J8W, 7-8) 11 Heiyu (J12E, 8-7)Flohru (J10W, 7-8) 12 Chelseayama (J14E, 8-7)KonyaGaYamada (ms2E, 9-6) 13 Mariohana (ms3W, 9-6)Unagiyutaka (J11E, 6-9) 14 Oortael (ms1W, 8-7) Kitahotaru (J13W, 7-8) ms1 Beeftank (ms12E, 11-4)Gusoyama (J11W, 5-10) 2 Kyodaitimu (ms8E, 9-6) Jejima (ms7E, 8-7) 3 Takanorappa (J9E, 3-12)Danjinoumi (ms3E, 7-8) 4 Kuramarujo (ms13W, 10-5) Watashi (ms10W, 9-6) 5 Kishikaisei (ms4W, 7-8) Homuburyuwa (ms5E, 7-8) 6 shimodahito (ms5W, 7-8)BariiHachiBenson (ms8W, 8-7) 7 Tenshinhan (ms7W, KOSHO) Wamahada (ms6W, 7-8) 8 Tsunamiko (ms2W, 5-10)hofudaryu (ms10E, 8-7) 9 Andrasoyama (ms11E, 8-7)Akokoneko (ms15E, 9-6) 10 Boltbanana (ms13E, 8-7) Aminoumi (ms18W, 10-5) 11 Rowitoro (ms6E, 5-10)Furanohana (ms20E, 9-6) 12 Hironoumi (ms20W, 9-6)Marushiki (ms18E, 8-7) 13 Rikishimiezi (ms19E, 8-7)Tameiki (J14W, 0-0-15) 14 Tochiyatsu (ms14W, KOSHO)Kashunowaka (ms9E, 4-11) 15 aoyume (ms9W, 4-11)Fujiko (ms14E, 6-9) 16 Nekonishiki (ms12W, 5-10) Kofujinokami (ms17E, KOSHO) 17 Baku (ms15W, 6-9)Kaba (ms17W, 7-8) 18 Kitanoyama (ms16E, 6-9)Bunijiman (ms16W, 6-9) 19 Kintsubasa (ms11W, 3-12) Tetsuba (ms21E, 7-8) 20 Kajiyanosho (ms19W, 6-9) Banzuke-gaiMmikasazuma (ms4E, 0-0-15) 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jejima 1,346 Posted June 17, 2023 Hi all! This has been a very difficult banzuke to put together. Some players have LOTS of bad luck. Sorry about that - it usually all balances out over time. There have been some sprinklings of good luck, here and there. One of which that I think is worth mentioning.... Kuramarujo started playing in January 2005. He took a break of 8 years in 2012, returning to the game in 2020. Due to banzuke luck, he will become a sekitori in July. Omedeto K-jo! Jejima (BS rijicho) pandaazuma (O1W, 10-5) O1 Joaoiyama (O1E, 7-8)Rubensan (K2W, 13-2) S1 Norizo (K1W, 8-7) Bill (M2E, 11-4) K1 chishafuwaku (S1W, 7-8)Jakusotsu (M7W, 10-5) M1 Kaito (M6E, 9-6)Holleshoryu (M4E, 8-7) 2 Susanoo (M4W, 8-7) Hogashi (M3E, KOSHO) 3 Gaijingai (M3W, KOSHO)toonoryu (S1E, 6-9) 4 andonishiki (M5W, 8-7)Konosato (M1E, 7-8) 5 Oshirokita (K1E, 5-10)Sakura (K2E, 5-10) 6 Kintamayama (M11W, 10-5)ScreechingOwl (M9W, 9-6) 7 Terarno (M8W, 8-7) Golynohana (M12E, 10-5) 8 Chocshoporyu (M1W, 5-10)Unkonoyama (M7E, 7-8) 9 Yangnomazuma (M6W, 6-9) Hokuyutaka (M2W, 4-11) 10 Pitinosato (M9E, 7-8)Hana-ichi (M5E, 5-10) 11 Balon (M14W, 9-6)Kaiowaka (M8E, 6-9) 12 Kitakachiyama (M16E, 9-6)Nantonoyama (M13E, KOSHO) 13 Frinkanohana (M10E, 6-9)Kasamatsuri (M15E, 8-7) 14 Kotononami (M12W, 7-8)Metzinowaka (M10W, 6-9) 15 Andoreasu (M16W, 8-7) Akishiki (M11E, 6-9) 16 Itachi (J1E, 9-6)Saruyama (M17E, KOSHO) 17 Fujisan (J7W, 12-3) tokugawa (J2E, 9-6) 18 Roundeye (J1W, 8-7) Achiyama (J7E, 11-4) J1 Anjoboshi (J2W, 8-7) iwakoko (M14E, 7-8) 2 Oskanohana (J5W, 10-5)tainosen (J3E, KOSHO) 3 kuroimori (M15W, 7-8) Netsuzakura (J6E, 9-6) 4 GONZABUROW (M13W, 6-9)Gansekiiwa (M17W, 7-8) 5 Chijanofuji (J9W, 9-6)Getayukata (J3W, 6-9) 6 Yamashade (J11E, 9-6)Ruziklao (J4E, 6-9) 7 KamiBaka (J6W, 7-8)Oyama (J9E, 8-7) 8 KonyaGaYamada (J13E, 9-6)Itachiyama (J8E, 7-8) 9 Athenayama (J8W, 7-8)Gawasukotto (J4W, 5-10) 10 Beeftank (ms1W, 10-5) Unagiyutaka (J14E, 9-6) 11 Gusoyama (ms2E, 9-6) Kyodaitimu (ms2W, 9-6) 12 Takanorappa (ms3W, 9-6)Basoyama (J10W, 6-9) 13 Mariohana (J13W, KOSHO)Jejima (ms3E, 8-7) 14 Kuramarujo (ms4W, 8-7) Flohru (J12E, 6-9) ms1 BariiHachiBenson (ms7E, 8-7)Boltbanana (ms10W, 9-6) 2 Wamahada (ms8E, 8-7)Rikishimiezi (ms13W, 10-5) 3 Heiyu (J11W, 4-11) Kofujinokami (ms17E, 11-4) 4 hofudaryu (ms9E, 8-7)Danjinoumi (ms4E, 7-8) 5 Sherlockiama (J5E, 0-0-15)Watashi (ms5E, 7-8) 6 Kitahotaru (ms1E, 5-10)Kishikaisei (ms5W, 7-8) 7 Oortael (J14W, 4-11)Chelseayama (J12W, 3-12) 8 shimodahito (ms6W, 7-8) Homuburyuwa (ms6E, 6-9) 9 Kashunowaka (ms15E, 9-6)aoyume (ms15W, 9-6) 10 Andrasoyama (ms9W, 7-8) VESHANA (J10E, 0-0-15) 11 Tsunamiko (ms8W, 6-9)Furanohana (ms12E, KOSHO) 12 Bunbukuchagama (ms21W, 11-4)Marushiki (ms13E, KOSHO) 13 Aminoumi (ms11E, 7-8) Baku (ms17W, 9-6) 14 Fujiko (ms16E, 8-7)Rowitoro (ms11W, 6-9) 15 Akokoneko (ms10E, 4-11)Hironoumi (ms12W, 5-10) 16 Kitanoyama (ms18W, 7-8) Nekonishiki (ms16W, 6-9) 17 Bunijiman (ms19E, 7-8) Kintsubasa (ms19W, 7-8) 18 Kaba (ms18E, 6-9)Tochiyatsu (ms14W, 4-11) 19 Maeden (ms21E, 5-10)Tetsuba (ms20E, KOSHO) 20 Kajiyanosho (ms20W, KOSHO) Banzuke-gai Tenshinhan (ms7W, 0-0-15)Tameiki (ms14E, 0-0-15) 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Rocks 1,807 Posted July 9, 2023 On 17/06/2023 at 13:17, Jejima said: Some players have LOTS of bad luck. Sorry about that - it usually all balances out over time. 5 ranks from a 7-8? I'd say. Does it balance out? Doesn't matter. I missed all the pre basho. July is always bad for me for some reason about registering in time. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jejima 1,346 Posted July 10, 2023 7 hours ago, Rocks said: 5 ranks from a 7-8? I'd say. Does it balance out? Doesn't matter. I missed all the pre basho. July is always bad for me for some reason about registering in time. iwakoko and kurpoimori also dropped 5 ranks with 7-8s. It was a bit crowded at that part of the basho. Anecdotally in my opinion it balances out over time - probably overall more good luck than bad luck - this banzuke was just one of those tricky bad luck ones. . 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Rocks 1,807 Posted July 16, 2023 On 10/07/2023 at 03:10, Jejima said: iwakoko and kurpoimori also dropped 5 ranks with 7-8s. It was a bit crowded at that part of the basho. Anecdotally in my opinion it balances out over time - probably overall more good luck than bad luck - this banzuke was just one of those tricky bad luck ones. . Does it? So if I get an 8-7 or 9-6 I'll head right back up to makuuchi instead of getting a half rank or 1 rank bump like the last 2 basho while being leapfrogged by people with 1 win more ranked farther back or 5 or 6 ranks back with 3 wins more than me? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Sakura 1,480 Posted July 16, 2023 13 minutes ago, Rocks said: Does it? So if I get an 8-7 or 9-6 I'll head right back up to makuuchi instead of getting a half rank or 1 rank bump like the last 2 basho while being leapfrogged by people with 1 win more ranked farther back or 5 or 6 ranks back with 3 wins more than me? I think over time means over a 5 or 10 year career. One of the issues with making a Bench banzuke, is that it's not Ozumo so that a lot of scores will end between 6-9 and 9-6 which, depending on the basho, can result in some bad banzke luck for MK players. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Bunbukuchagama 701 Posted July 16, 2023 11 minutes ago, Sakura said: I think over time means over a 5 or 10 year career. One of the issues with making a Bench banzuke, is that it's not Ozumo so that a lot of scores will end between 6-9 and 9-6 which, depending on the basho, can result in some bad banzke luck for MK players. Also, allowing kosho makes banzuke-making even messier than usual. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Flohru 176 Posted July 16, 2023 8 hours ago, Rocks said: Does it? So if I get an 8-7 or 9-6 I'll head right back up to makuuchi instead of getting a half rank or 1 rank bump like the last 2 basho while being leapfrogged by people with 1 win more ranked farther back or 5 or 6 ranks back with 3 wins more than me? To be sure you have had a streak of bad banzuke luck recently. However, as Sakura indicated, this is mainly due to the dynamic banzuke making principle which favours double digit KK and might lead to mini promotions for small KK (or huge overdemotions for small MK) players in crowded parts of the banzuke. Looking at your career record you did profit from that guideline in the past, e.g. in your second basho when you were promoted to J13e after a 10-5 at ms10e (= a 11 rank promotion instead of the 5 rank promotion you were due with that record in terms of numbers only). So, yeah, in my experience, too, it does balance out in the long run. ;) 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jejima 1,346 Posted July 16, 2023 (edited) 12 hours ago, Rocks said: Does it? So if I get an 8-7 or 9-6 I'll head right back up to makuuchi instead of getting a half rank or 1 rank bump like the last 2 basho while being leapfrogged by people with 1 win more ranked farther back or 5 or 6 ranks back with 3 wins more than me? We do have some guidelines when we make the Bench banzuke, which we call the 'dynamic banzuke principal'. This was first described by Ekigozan (a previous banzuke maker) over two decades ago, and the banzuke making committee has been following it ever since. This means that if two players are both due the same promotion slot (such as J12E with 10-5 and a J8E with an 8-7), we will favour the player with the better record. There are some provisos to that, but generally that is the case. This is allow to more movement in Bench Sumo than in other games for players who are performing really well. (I recall getting back-to-back Makushita yushos in the Sumo game, but still being ranked in the mid 30s), We have three banzuke makers (and four retired banzuke makers, who are included in all of our communications, and sometimes get involved), and our initial drafts are never the same. So, we then make a compromise banzuke. Then we make proposals to change the compromise banzuke (up to 10 or so on some occasions!), which we vote on. Basically, I am guessing that the crafting of the Bench banzuke is the most involved one out of all the games' banzukes - and has followed the same guidelines for 20+ years. In July 2022, Gansekiiwa had 11-4 at the rank of ms7W and was promoted to J11W. The subsequent basho, Gansekiiwa went 11-4 at the rank of J11W and was promoted to J2W. So, from roughly the middle of the Makushita division to the top of Juryo in two bashos, with 11-4 records. I would say that that is a bit of banzuke good luck, which might be balanced by a bit of bad banzuke luck later on? Edited July 16, 2023 by Jejima Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Rocks 1,807 Posted July 16, 2023 4 minutes ago, Jejima said: In July 2022, Gansekiiwa had 11-4 at the rank of ms7W and was promoted to J11W. The subsequent basho, Gansekiiwa went 11-4 at the rank of J11W and was promoted to J2W. So, from roughly the middle of the Makushita division to the top of Juryo in two bashos, with 11-4 records. I would say that that is a bit of banzuke good luck, which might be balanced by a bit of bad banzuke luck later on? Yeah, I wasn't claiming I don't get some luck, good and bad, but where it seems to happen on the banzuke. I fell a full 6 ranks, thanks to addition of M18, mostly due to your need to drop other 7-8s ahead of me. There didn't seem to be such a great need to drop those 7-8s just recently. Despite the same sort of records being involved. Records get tighter as you go up the banzuke. Players are better. You have a 'dynamic banzuke principal' that favors double digit records. I get it. 12 wins is great and usually takes the yusho but the same thing often happens in the real banzuke. You don't see 11 and 12 win J7s and J8s forcing marginal MKs down from M14 and 15. I just see 3 players with 12 wins at J7, J8 and J8 promoted over me at 9 wins J2 two basho ago while a M15 6-9 drops to M1 and a M14 7-8 falls to M15. Now a 9-6 J2 warrants promotion and me dropping all the way to J5 because to make that happen you have to drop higher ranked 7-8s ahead of me? Your 'dynamic banzuke principal' is great. I don't have a problem with it. But if it results in something as ridiculous as dropping 7-8s 6 ranks maybe some people getting good banzuke luck instead of great rather than people with marginal MKs getting atrocious luck might be the way to go? You know me. I never complain about rank and I don't think Screech should have been demoted to favor me 2 basho ago. But this? Come on. I'm the same rank as a J9 9-6 with a 7-8 at M17? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jejima 1,346 Posted July 16, 2023 (edited) As part of the dynamic banzuke making principle, we also favour KKs over MKs. Additionally, players should expect to get their promotions due to them with a KK, even if this means giving bad banzuke luck to MK players. I have just checked the entire record for Gansekiiwa. There has only been one occasion (out of 14) when he didn't get at least the promotion due to him with a KK (that bad luck with a KK occasion was after January 2023). This likely means that on occasion some MK players in the banzuke around him have been over-demoted in the past to allow for all of his promotions - following the dynamic banzuke principle. Gansekiiwa has been over-demoted three times (out of six) with MKs. This includes a 16 rank drop (instead of 15) after a 0-0-15 . So basically a five rank drop (instead of 3) from J1 to J6 at the start of 2020, and this recent drop, when (as previously noted), there were a couple of others in the same part of the banzuke with identical big drops. I have a feeling that having two banzukes with your worst bad banzuke luck (to date) close together (March and July 2023) is what has brought this to your attention. But looking back at your entire career, I would say that Gansekiiwa has probably received more good banzuke luck than bad - and certainly no more or less than any longtime player of the game. You can check for yourself, by going here --> <http://takanorappa.com/BenchStats/BanzukeLookup.htm> As a little exercise, have a go at making the July 2023 banzuke in a different way - let us know what you come up with, and it could be something that the banzuke making committee discusses for the future. Edit: We do realise (the three banzuke makers include Sakura and Flohru, who are both great GTB players - and even I have won GTB 2 or 3 times in the (distant) past) that Bench Sumo does its banzuke differently to ozumo. But that is intentional. Due to the nature of the game, our results are much closer to 7-8s and 8-7s than in ozumo, where a bigger spread can be expected. There has only been one 15-0 record in our entire history, and only about two or three 0-15 records. So, we do make sure that we reward good records, which is basically 11 wins and up. Edited July 16, 2023 by Jejima 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Sakura 1,480 Posted July 16, 2023 There are times when we don't promote everyone with a promotable record, because it would be too egregious to demote players with certain rank record combinations. In the most recent banzuke, Achiyama and Oskanohana both had promotable records but were not promoted. (Oskanohana even ends up at J2). There are a lot of players in Juryo that deserve to be ranked at the top of Juryo and that is the order they landed in. If we did things like Ozumo, then the only divisional exchange would have been Gansekiiwa down for Itachi up and whilst Gansekiiwa would have ended up at J2w (which would still be an overdemotion), Oskanohana would have ended up at J4, probably, from a 10-5 at J5. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Flohru 176 Posted July 16, 2023 (edited) 3 hours ago, Rocks said: But this? Come on. I'm the same rank as a J9 9-6 with a 7-8 at M17? That is because the crowded part of the banzuke ends right after you, but unfortunately all the players ahead of you are there for a reason. All the other MK players ahead of you must be ranked ahead of you even in terms of Ozumo banzuke making. There are four KK players between J1 and J5e and all four of them are suffering from bad to terrible banzuke luck as well: a 10-5 only receives a three ranked promotion (instead of five), a 9-6 only two (instead of three), a 8-7 only is promoted half a rank. I really cannot see what we could have done differently. Even if we had not promoted the KK players at all (!) you would have fallen to J3w due to the fact that the other MK players are having better rank/record-combination than you have. Edited July 16, 2023 by Flohru Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Asashosakari 18,968 Posted July 16, 2023 I guess the big contention here is that, contrary to the latest banzuke, only relatively normal-sized demotions were given out in low makuuchi after the Hatsu results, which supposedly led to Gansekiiwa going J2w 9-6 -> J1e for the Haru banzuke. As someone who creates game banzuke that are - by a significant margin - even more dynamic than Bench Sumo's, I daresay I'm at least somewhat qualified to offer a third opinion here. (I do get to observe the Bench banzuke sessions as an ex-member, but I don't usually get involved, and I did not back in January.) Here's the relevant portion of the actual Haru 2023 Bench banzuke on the left, and on the right what I (probably) would have done if this had been, say, a Sekitori-Quad ranking: Jakusotsu (M5w 5-10) M10 Kitakachiyama (M14w 8-7) | Kitakachiyama (M14w 8-7) M10 Akishiki (M17e 9-6) Akishiki (M17e 9-6) M11 Metzinowaka (M15e 8-7) | Metzinowaka (M15e 8-7) M11 Jakusotsu (M5w 5-10) tainosen (M11e 7-8) M12 Kintamayama (M9e 6-9) | tainosen (M11e 7-8) M12 Kintamayama (M9e 6-9) Golynohana (M7w 5-10) M13 Frinkanohana (M12e 7-8) | Golynohana (M7w 5-10) M13 Frinkanohana (M12e 7-8) Ruziklao (M11w 6-9) M14 kuroimori (J1e 9-6) | Balon (J7w 12-3 D) M14 GONZABUROW (J8e 12-3 D) ScreechingOwl (M14e 7-8) M15 Balon (J7w 12-3 D) | iwakoko (J8w 12-3 Y) M15 kuroimori (J1e 9-6) Nantonoyama (M16e kosho) M16 GONZABUROW (J8e 12-3 D) | Ruziklao (M11w 6-9) M16 ScreechingOwl (M14e 7-8) iwakoko (J8w 12-3 Y) M17 Oskanohana (M18e kosho) | Nantonoyama (M16e kosho) M17 Gansekiiwa (J2w 9-6) Gansekiiwa (J2w 9-6) J1 Itachi (M15w 6-9) | Oskanohana (M18e kosho) J1 Itachi (M15w 6-9) Itachiyama (J2e kosho) J2 Anjoboshi (J1w 7-8) | Itachiyama (J2e kosho) J2 Netsuzakura (J9e 10-5) Saruyama (M13e 4-11) J3 Chijanofuji (M17w 6-9) | Saruyama (M13e 4-11) J3 Chijanofuji (M17w 6-9) Netsuzakura (J9e 10-5) J4 Andoreasu (J7e 8-7) | Anjoboshi (J1w 7-8) J4 Andoreasu (J7e 8-7) Even in my extremely KK-focused approach, the Gansekiiwa result would have been insufficient to pass ScreechingOwl. It would have been enough to push Oskanohana out of makuuchi, but unlike the Seki* games Bench Sumo does not have provisions for demoting kosho players in rank (let alone out of a division), so there just wasn't any maegashira player that deserved to be sent packing to accommodate a J2w 9-6. As for the July banzuke, I concur with the Bench team that there weren't any alternative solutions that would have substantively benefited Gansekiiwa over what was decided upon. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jejima 1,346 Posted July 16, 2023 In Bench Sumo, we have never demoted a Kosho player in 25 years-ish of the game, following the way Ozumo treated Kosho players, when it had them. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Rocks 1,807 Posted July 17, 2023 9 hours ago, Jejima said: I have a feeling that having two banzukes with your worst bad banzuke luck (to date) close together (March and July 2023) is what has brought this to your attention. To be perfectly honest with you I paid no attention to it until I was J1. Even then just concentrating on getting a KK to insure I at least moved up the banzuke and being in a position to be promoted to the next division for sure with a KK. 11 hours ago, Jejima said: In July 2022, Gansekiiwa had 11-4 at the rank of ms7W and was promoted to J11W. The subsequent basho, Gansekiiwa went 11-4 at the rank of J11W and was promoted to J2W. The former is very good but considering Makushita has a lot more players and a lot more variation in score I suspect a lot of people ahead of me did very badly. As to the latter I suspect had someone in upper Juryo other than the 2 promotees had got a KK I would have ended up behind the Kosho players at J5 at best and would have been more than happy to have moved up 6 ranks with 4 wins over me getting an MK. The MKs at J5 and J6 didn't drop 6 ranks to get me there. You had a big fat hole to fill and I made sense. A better example of me getting good banzuke luck is Hastu 2020, moving up 5 ranks for J6 to J1 with a 10-5 considering there were 4 10-5s, 3 9-6 and 2 8-7s in the Juryo Top 12. Everybody and their brother in Upper Juryo did well. Double digits is a special score when it stands out. If everybody is doing well then nobody should be expecting any good luck. Outside of Itachi and Itachiyama nobody should have been promoted unless someone MKed at the bottom of maegashira or got worse than 6 wins. There's no way I should have ended up 3 ranks ahead of a 7-8 M16 Jakusoto. Or ahead of a J2 Pitinosato with an 8-7. I didn't have to do any exchange matches I think. 12 wins is very good but it's hardly rare. It sure as heck shouldn't force 7-8s down from M14/15 when you're a J7 or J8. Someone at the top of Juryo has a harder schedule than someone in or almost in the lower half or Juryo. Are we pretending the quality of play doesn't improve as you go up the bansuke or in higher divisions? 8 hours ago, Flohru said: That is because the crowded part of the banzuke ends right after you, but unfortunately all the players ahead of you are there for a reason. All the other MK players ahead of you must be ranked ahead of you even in terms of Ozumo banzuke making. There are four KK players between J1 and J5e and all four of them are suffering from bad to terrible banzuke luck as well: a 10-5 only receives a three ranked promotion (instead of five), a 9-6 only two (instead of three), a 8-7 only is promoted half a rank. I really cannot see what we could have done differently. Even if we had not promoted the KK players at all (!) you would have fallen to J3w due to the fact that the other MK players are having better rank/record-combination than you have. I appreciate the difficulties and what the committee does. I really do. That's why I never sweated how far I moved up the banzuke with a KK as long as I moved up. But I don't see where someone is suffering terrible or even bad banzuke luck moving up 3 ranks with a 10-5. As far as I'm concerned you should at best expect to move up one rank for each win above a MK. I don't see why anyone would be aggrieved if they got at least that and frankly anything above it is gravy and warranted when those above do pretty bad, at least a 6-9 or even worse. The fact that they are in entirely different divisions counts for nothing? Shouldn't the fact you are being demoted out of a division count for something in comparing records? I appreciate the value of a dynamic principle but not when it extends so far that someone competing in lower Juryo for half the basho should be promoted over an M13 with 7 wins or a J2 with 9 because they got 12 wins. The person with 12 wins at J7 or 10 wins at J5 are still benefitting when they move up the banzuke even if they aren't promoted. Bad luck is not going up at 9-6 from J2 or 8 wins from J1w. But sometimes even that is warranted. I don't know what could have been done differently but turning someone into an ozeki on a 2 basho bad run and basically needing double digits wins to be repromoted because they lost one too many tiebreakers in a basho, once, seems a bit much. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Rocks 1,807 Posted July 17, 2023 7 hours ago, Jejima said: In Bench Sumo, we have never demoted a Kosho player in 25 years-ish of the game, following the way Ozumo treated Kosho players, when it had them. Normally I would 100% agree with this and if it ends up with someone not getting as many moves up as they should is well, bad luck. The one time I would make an exception is if someone has their back to the wall at M17 and is the lowest rank they should be the lowest rank the next basho. If Sanyaku drop and you end up with M18s then that Kosho player should end up at the bottom rank again. You are in no worse position than you were last basho. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
