YDC convenes after Aki 2016

[rhyen 1,823]

NHK news report that the YDC has set a target of 13 wins for Goeido to be promoted. Moriya also stated that they should ignore Goeido's previous record/kadoban before his Yusho.

They also wish Kisenosato a speedy return to form.

 

Kinta: will you be able to attach the article as it is published?

[Benevolance 2,483]

But, because the YDC is such a stickler for tradition, Goeidou will still be Kadoban for November. 

[Harry 67]

27 minutes ago, Benevolance said:

But, because the YDC is such a stickler for tradition, Goeidou will still be Kadoban for November. 

Good! Goeido gets more wins when he's kadoban!

[Katooshu 3,181]

Goeido being yokozuna just seems so wrong

[RabidJohn 1,722]

Wow, Goeido tsunatori! Who'd a thunk that, eh?

His track record would suggest MK in November, but then his track record never for an instant suggested a zensho-yusho in September, so so much for track records!

I haven't seen the article, so is the YDC proposing 'just' 13 wins, even if that's not even a jun-yusho because there happens to be a (admittedly unlikely) 14-1D ahead of it? I thought they'd insist on at least a doten. They can try to pretend Goeido's past record doesn't matter, but...

[Sumozumo 240]

Yeah, to clarify they said a 13 win yusho, I think rhyen omitted it maybe accidentally.

[Bumpkin 438]

4 hours ago, Sumozumo said:

Yeah, to clarify they said a 13 win yusho, I think rhyen omitted it maybe accidentally.

Back to back Yusho or equivalent is the established criteria.  15-0 Y followed by either 13-2 Y or 14-1 D should do it..  The real question is would 13-2 D or 14-1 J get him the rope?

[Suwihuto 125]

47 minutes ago, Bumpkin said:

Back to back Yusho or equivalent is the established criteria.  15-0 Y followed by either 13-2 Y or 14-1 D should do it..  The real question is would 13-2 D or 14-1 J get him the rope?

I really doubt we need to worry about it!

[WAKATAKE 2,644]

Nikkan's article doesn't specify a number, just getting the yusho in November.

http://www.nikkansports.com/battle/sumo/news/1716131.html

[Sumozumo 240]

I got it from the NHK article: http://www3.nhk.or.jp/news/html/20160926/k10010707551000.html

「個人的には１３勝以上の優勝ならば賛成する。今場所のすばらしい内容が続けば期待できる」

Personally, I agree (to promote to yokozuna) if it's a 13 or more win yusho. I can promise it if (he) can continue this basho's awesome performance (in kyushuu).

[Dapeng 233]

13 hours ago, Sumozumo said:

I got it from the NHK article: http://www3.nhk.or.jp/news/html/20160926/k10010707551000.html

「個人的には１３勝以上の優勝ならば賛成する。今場所のすばらしい内容が続けば期待できる」

Personally, I agree (to promote to yokozuna) if it's a 13 or more win yusho. I can promise it if (he) can continue this basho's awesome performance (in kyushuu).

Sure. Because of his past poor performance, promotion on 13 wins must be on condition of yusho and 12 wins even yusho is at best marginal.  Non-yusho 14 wins should also be OK because next basho there will be three yokozuna and 14 wins means beating at least 2 yokozuna. Actually, 14-wins is a yusho number in most cases.

[Akinomaki 40,053]

The YDC oppinion is divided on this: some say 14-1J or 13-2D is enough, some say 15-0Y is required: Only 2/3 of the members have to be in favor for a promotion. http://www.hochi.co.jp/sports/sumo/20160927-OHT1T50047.html
http://www.tokyo-sports.co.jp/sports/sumou/597998/
Moriya avoided a definite comment: "This is not the proper time for assertions." http://mainichi.jp/articles/20160927/k00/00m/050/074000c

So 13-2Y just remains the yardstick.
Nishonoseki had named the usual norm of "yusho or equivalent/next best" = even with jun-yusho.
http://www.daily.co.jp/general/2016/09/26/0009525180.shtml

There was no promotion directly after kadoban under the present system, but Haguroyama did it with 2 basho a year in 1941/42 with 7-5-3, 14-1J, 14-1Y.
Onokuni after 15-0Y got promoted with 12-3J, 13-2J.
http://www.chunichi.co.jp/chuspo/article/sumo/news/CK2016092502000156.html
Kotooshu after the kadoban 14-1 yusho got a 14-1 norm by the YDC - 15-0 gets much more appreciated. http://www.chunichi.co.jp/chuspo/article/sumo/news/CK2016092602000143.html

Meanwhile Goeido doesn't want a yusho party and rather concentrates on the yokozuna run. After the kampai with the big cup he just ate and drank ramen with the tsukebito and had no more sake.
Events are just PR for the Naniwa jungyo basho in Osaka on the 29th and a parade in his hometown Neyagawa-city on Oct. 16th. http://www.hochi.co.jp/sports/sumo/20160926-OHT1T50292.html

He'll get the "Exciting Osaka Award" from Osaka prefecture, the local citizens honor award.
http://www.sanspo.com/sports/news/20160926/sum16092611060010-n1.html

 

Edited September 27, 2016 by Akinomaki

[Bumpkin 438]

What is the Yokozuna Deliberation Council?  Is it affiliated with the Kyokai?  Who has final say on promotions to Yokozuna?

[Rocks 1,807]

As far as I'm concerned 14 wins and he's in. 14 wins in a basho has been achieved 189 times. Of those 175 amounted to a Yusho or a playoff. Only 14 were straight jun-yusho. That means 93% of the time 14 wins is a Yusho or equivalent. If it just so happens that this one basho is one of the rare times it amounts to a jun-yusho Goeido shouldn't be docked for that IMO. I would vote yes for a 13-2 D also given his zensho yusho.

Edited September 27, 2016 by Rocks

[RabidJohn 1,722]

3 hours ago, Bumpkin said:

What is the Yokozuna Deliberation Council?  Is it affiliated with the Kyokai?  Who has final say on promotions to Yokozuna?

This is what wikipedia has to say:

"After a tournament, the Yokozuna Deliberation Council, a body of lay people (that is, not former sumo wrestlers) who are appointed by the Japan Sumo Association to provide an independent quality control on yokozuna promotion, meet and discuss the performance of the top-ranked wrestlers. Usually at the instigation of the Japan Sumo Association they can make a recommendation that a particular ōzeki-ranked wrestler has the necessary attributes to be promoted. Their recommendation is then passed to the Judging division and then the Board of Directors of the Sumo Association who make the final decision."

I'm not at all sure how independent the YDC is, because the above seems to say they're appointed by the NSK to make recommendations suggested by the NSK, which then makes the decision anyway! Must be one of these Japanese things we westerners just don't get...

[Rocks 1,807]

9 minutes ago, RabidJohn said:

This is what wikipedia has to say:

"After a tournament, the Yokozuna Deliberation Council, a body of lay people (that is, not former sumo wrestlers) who are appointed by the Japan Sumo Association to provide an independent quality control on yokozuna promotion, meet and discuss the performance of the top-ranked wrestlers. Usually at the instigation of the Japan Sumo Association they can make a recommendation that a particular ōzeki-ranked wrestler has the necessary attributes to be promoted. Their recommendation is then passed to the Judging division and then the Board of Directors of the Sumo Association who make the final decision."

I'm not at all sure how independent the YDC is, because the above seems to say they're appointed by the NSK to make recommendations suggested by the NSK, which then makes the decision anyway! Must be one of these Japanese things we westerners just don't get...

Sounds to me like a way to reward generous patrons.

[WAKATAKE 2,644]

3 hours ago, Rocks said:

Sounds to me like a way to reward generous patrons.

Judging by the professions of the council members, you are probably right sir.

College professors, politicians, lawyers, company presidents, sounds like a gentlemen's club to me.

[Katooshu 3,181]

Maybe the Aki toupee guy will be on it soon......

[Jakusotsu 5,874]

14 hours ago, Akinomaki said:

Moriya avoided a definite comment: "This is not the proper time for assertions."

Good man. Give him a cookie!

[Naganoyama 5,881]

The extra wrinkle is that the Shinpan committee meets before the Yokozuna Deliberation Council and decide whether Ozeki X is worthy of consideration for promotion. If they think he is then they ask the YDC to deliberate the matter. If they do not, the YDC have no say.

[ScottyJoyJrBebe 97]

Its nice to hear that Goeido will bypass the celebration to concentrate on his chance at the tsuna.  I also agree that 13 wins should be enough, as that would give him a 2 basho record of 28-2, similar to Kakuryu (and others I imagine). Goeido is my sons favorite wrestler, and he is turning 3 years old next month, so this is an "early" b-day gift :)

15-0 Y 13-2 Y/D/J Go-Go-Goeido!!!!

[K. Sear 27]

5 hours ago, Naganoyama said:

The extra wrinkle is that the Shinpan committee meets before the Yokozuna Deliberation Council and decide whether Ozeki X is worthy of consideration for promotion. If they think he is then they ask the YDC to deliberate the matter. If they do not, the YDC have no say.

Do YDC decisions actually carry weight though?  For instance, when they chose to not promote Konishiki the recommendation stood, suggesting the committee isn't a completely ceremonial body either.

[Asashosakari 18,968]

1 hour ago, K. Sear said:

Do YDC decisions actually carry weight though?  For instance, when they chose to not promote Konishiki the recommendation stood, suggesting the committee isn't a completely ceremonial body either.

Their primary role is, as Naganoyama insinuated, to have veto power. The background in setting up the YDC in the 1950s was that the Kyokai was perceived to have been too liberal and generous in its yokozuna-promoting decisions, so public pressure led to the establishment of the YDC as a group of people of society who are (more or less) connected to sumo but aren't subject to the factional hullabaloo that goes on internally. (Hypothetical example: The Dewanoumi group putting pressure on the rest to treat Goeido's yokozuna run favorably, in return for Dewanoumi playing nice with whoever happens to be the next contender from another group.)

With the somewhat more tightened promotion standards post-Futahaguro, their role has arguably diminished, so a lot of the time they now come across more as just "the guys who are telling a yokozuna when it's time to hang up his mawashi".

[ryafuji 811]

I recall they vetoed Takanohana's promotion to yokozuna in September 1994 because he hadn't won two consecutive yusho. (Of course, he then went on to win the next basho in November 15-0 and got promoted.)

[Bumpkin 438]

So the YDC is sumo's equivalent of the House of Lords.