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Basho Talk - Aki Basho 2016 +++ Spoiler Alert! +++

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40 minutes ago, Harry said:

Thanks! That's really too bad then, as he is a fan. But having to drink 2 litres of water to even qualify for the weight was not a good sigh I guess. What chance does he have of becoming a yobidashi instead?

Indeed, it is worse for the Geek who is not only inflexible but practically one dimensional with nothing other than the straight forward bumpety bump except when his opponent manages to get out of it and he has to scramble for something else. And yet, even though every single opponent knows he is going to be bumpety bumped, the Geek has a yusho while Kise does not. Kise knowing he is now the only Y/O without a yusho is going to eat at him even more, apply even more pressure and I fear (I know, I'm a broken record) that his performance will become even worse as a result.

Goeido on the other hand, great show! Great to see the proud mama in the audience too. I really hope he can follow it up in Kyuushuu and Hatsubasho. His father passed away, right? I seem to remember that but can't find any reference to it.

He has firmly outclassed his rival Tochiozan now who sadly seems to be sunsetting now. 

Sure, the Geek is totally one dimensional, which is why he will never be a Yok, which was my point. Like Kise, 25 kimarite total. I'd argue he is even more one dimensional than Kise. However, the difference between him and Kise, is Kise's brain. The Geek's brain works, he is able to harness it when he needs to, and get the absolute maximum out of his limited move set and when the stars align, get a yusho. But he will never get two in a row, which is the difference between Yokozuna-hood, and being a perennial Ozeki.

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15 hours ago, Rocks said:

I want to know how Hattori has failed to gain even a single pound. 

Not just that, he lost quite some weight: "I want to get back to 70kg quickly. I also want to increase muscle mass."

Because of his neck pain, he never does a real sumo head-on impact tachi-ai, instead he tries to keep the other away with his hands. He has no effective tsuppari, but this way managed to have at least contact with the opponent in the bouts after the infamous one against Kinjo - he is actually satisfied with the other bouts: "Except for that I think I have used all power I had."  http://www.nikkansports.com/battle/sumo/news/1714246.html

No sign of an intention to quit.

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45 minutes ago, WAKATAKE said:

In case anybody's interested, yes Goeido will be on a tsuna run next basho, according to Nishonoseki chief judge and YDC Chairman Moriya.

http://www.nikkansports.com/battle/sumo/news/1714951.html

I knew they would say that. I wonder if they will do it any jun-yungo, even a 11-4.

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I am upset that Goeido fought Tamawashi to get the yusho instead of going against Endo, the only other rikishi in yusho contention. Rank differences be what they may if on day 14 there are only two rikishi who could win the tournament then they should go against each other. Especially, a match against Tamawashi determines the yusho? They should have at least done Mitakeumi who is a higher rank and had the same record. smh it seems that organization interest dictated the last matches.

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7 minutes ago, sadanoumi_is_my_favorite said:

I am upset that Goeido fought Tamawashi to get the yusho instead of going against Endo, the only other rikishi in yusho contention. Rank differences be what they may if on day 14 there are only two rikishi who could win the tournament then they should go against each other. Especially, a match against Tamawashi determines the yusho? They should have at least done Mitakeumi who is a higher rank and had the same record. smh it seems that organization interest dictated the last matches.

Tamawashi had more wins and was closer to sanyaku promotion than Mitakeumi on the day they did the Day 14 pairings.  Perhaps they should wait for Day 13 results before doing Day 14 pairings, but it's a tradition that they do them beforehand for Makuuchi.  And tradition is a huge thing.

Edited by Gurowake

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1 hour ago, Morty said:

Sure, the Geek is totally one dimensional, which is why he will never be a Yok, which was my point. Like Kise, 25 kimarite total. I'd argue he is even more one dimensional than Kise. However, the difference between him and Kise, is Kise's brain. The Geek's brain works, he is able to harness it when he needs to, and get the absolute maximum out of his limited move set and when the stars align, get a yusho. But he will never get two in a row, which is the difference between Yokozuna-hood, and being a perennial Ozeki.

While I don't expect the Geek can bumpety-bump his way to the rope I still think he has more of a chance than Kise because as you say, at least his brain works and he can string some wins together when it matters. Kise's chance is zero at this point, if it hasn't already been zero for years.

Where do you see Kakuryu? I think he is more versatile but if he was able to string together a jun-yusho and a yusho for the promotion then I'd say that Giku has or had a chance as well, though very small and perhaps zero by now.

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7 hours ago, taresu said:

At this point it just got sad watching Terunofuji.

For a year, it's been sad watching Terunofuji.

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6 hours ago, d_golem said:

I'd say 20% possibility Kise announcing his retirement immediately after the basho's over.

I say 0%.

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5 hours ago, mikawa said:

In other news, how on earth did this happen?! (especially after going 4-1 on day 9......)

Sakamoto Genki
2016.01 Ms15TD hoshi_yasumi.gifhoshi_kuro.gifhoshi_shiro.gifhoshi_yasumi.gifhoshi_yasumi.gifhoshi_shiro.gifhoshi_shiro.gifhoshi_yasumi.gifhoshi_kuro.gifhoshi_yasumi.gifhoshi_yasumi.gifhoshi_shiro.gifhoshi_yasumi.gifhoshi_yasumi.gifhoshi_kuro.gif 4-3   185 cm 167 kg
2016.03 Ms11w hoshi_kuro.gifhoshi_yasumi.gifhoshi_yasumi.gifhoshi_shiro.gifhoshi_shiro.gifhoshi_yasumi.gifhoshi_yasumi.gifhoshi_kuro.gifhoshi_yasumi.gifhoshi_kuro.gifhoshi_shiro.gifhoshi_yasumi.gifhoshi_yasumi.gifhoshi_shiro.gifhoshi_yasumi.gif 4-3    
2016.05 Ms9e hoshi_yasumi.gifhoshi_shiro.gifhoshi_kuro.gifhoshi_yasumi.gifhoshi_yasumi.gifhoshi_shiro.gifhoshi_yasumi.gifhoshi_shiro.gifhoshi_yasumi.gifhoshi_shiro.gifhoshi_yasumi.gifhoshi_kuro.gifhoshi_yasumi.gifhoshi_yasumi.gifhoshi_kuro.gif 4-3    
2016.07 Ms6e hoshi_shiro.gifhoshi_yasumi.gifhoshi_yasumi.gifhoshi_shiro.gifhoshi_kuro.gifhoshi_yasumi.gifhoshi_yasumi.gifhoshi_kuro.gifhoshi_yasumi.gifhoshi_shiro.gifhoshi_yasumi.gifhoshi_shiro.gifhoshi_yasumi.gifhoshi_kuro.gifhoshi_yasumi.gif 4-3    
2016.09 Ms3w hoshi_shiro.gifhoshi_yasumi.gifhoshi_kuro.gifhoshi_yasumi.gifhoshi_shiro.gifhoshi_yasumi.gifhoshi_shiro.gifhoshi_yasumi.gifhoshi_shiro.gifhoshi_yasumi.gifhoshi_yasumi.gifhoshi_kuro.gifhoshi_yasumi.gifhoshi_kuro.gif 4-3    

Nothing wrong with 4-3.  Steady and slow is the way to go.

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Gogai special newspaper editions appeared for Goeido, some are online:

http://www.saitama-np.co.jp/news/2016/09/24/11.html

-> http://www.saitama-np.co.jp/news/2016/09/24/goueidou.pdf

http://www.asahi.com/extra/articles/SDI201609248093.html

NHK had a special news sokuho announcement for the yusho, which usually makes you think an earthquake happened.

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3 minutes ago, Akinomaki said:

NHK had a special news sokuho announcement for the yusho, which usually makes you think an earthquake happened.

Well, an earthquake DID happen..

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2 hours ago, WAKATAKE said:

In case anybody's interested, yes Goeido will be on a tsuna run next basho, according to Nishonoseki chief judge and YDC Chairman Moriya.

http://www.nikkansports.com/battle/sumo/news/1714951.html

Correct me if I'm wrong, but every Ozeki that wins a Yusho is on a Yokozuna run.

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38 minutes ago, sadanoumi_is_my_favorite said:

I am upset that Goeido fought Tamawashi to get the yusho instead of going against Endo, the only other rikishi in yusho contention. Rank differences be what they may if on day 14 there are only two rikishi who could win the tournament then they should go against each other. Especially, a match against Tamawashi determines the yusho? They should have at least done Mitakeumi who is a higher rank and had the same record. smh it seems that organization interest dictated the last matches.

I agree 100%.  Endo had every right to face Goeido.  Plus it would have been a better match-up.

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18 minutes ago, Bumpkin said:

I agree 100%.  Endo had every right to face Goeido.  Plus it would have been a better match-up.

Disagree. Endou is crap against the top guys. You will see next basho when he gets promoted to M3 or higher where he will again have a hard reality check, as will his fans.

0-3 against Goueidou. Tamawashi was 2-4 and riding an 8 bout winning streak AND looking good. He lost to Goueidou in the end, but so did 13 others this basho.

Hakuhou 0-4.

Harumafuji 0-4

Kakuryuu 1-3

So no, don't take 12 wins at 14E seriously because so far, that's all he's worth .

Maybe someday he will finally be well enough or good enough to have that breakout basho, but  that's in the future. Maybe.

Edited by Kintamayama
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27 minutes ago, Bumpkin said:

Correct me if I'm wrong, but every Ozeki that wins a Yusho is on a Yokozuna run.

You are correct! 

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3 hours ago, Kintamayama said:

Disagree. Endou is crap against the top guys. You will see next basho when he gets promoted to M3 or higher where he will again have a hard reality check, as will his fans.

0-3 against Goueidou. Tamawashi was 2-4 and riding an 8 bout winning streak AND looking good. He lost to Goueidou in the end, but so did 13 others this basho.

Hakuhou 0-4.

Harumafuji 0-4

Kakuryuu 1-3

So no, don't take 12 wins at 14E seriously because so far, that's all he's worth .

Maybe someday he will finally be well enough or good enough to have that breakout basho, but  that's in the future. Maybe.

Kinta;  With all due respect, I feel that you are discriminating against Endo merely because he is, well, Endo.

If your boy Ikioi had been in Endo's spot, would you feel the same way?

Edited by Randomitsuki
Trimming blank spaces

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1 hour ago, Bumpkin said:

For a year, it's been sad watching Terunofuji.

He just needs to take a year off, get healed up and come back. At his best, he can win titles. When he's playing around injuries, he's risking kadoban. His injuries can't be good longterm for his career and he's too young to blow his talent.

Edited by rzombie1988
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3 hours ago, Morty said:

Sure, the Geek is totally one dimensional, which is why he will never be a Yok, which was my point. Like Kise, 25 kimarite total. I'd argue he is even more one dimensional than Kise. However, the difference between him and Kise, is Kise's brain. The Geek's brain works, he is able to harness it when he needs to, and get the absolute maximum out of his limited move set and when the stars align, get a yusho. But he will never get two in a row, which is the difference between Yokozuna-hood, and being a perennial Ozeki.

Koto's pretty bad too when he goes on his streaks. I've seen multiple days in a row where he eats henka's.

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Kinta;  With all do respect, I feel that you are discriminating against Endo merely because he is, well, Endo..  If our boy Ikioi had been in Endo's spot, would you feel the same way?

Of course, because not facing the sanyaku would be the only way to keep Ikioi's yusho chance alive! When Ikioi has to face the sanyaku, it's usually over. Same for Endo. IIRC, the toughest opponent Kyokutenho faced during his yusho run was an ozeki who barely made his kachikoshi, and Kyokutenho was fighting from twenty spots higher. Endo hasn't earned crap until he's stringing together his wins from the top of the division, and isn't already 2 wins behind by day 12. 

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1 hour ago, sadanoumi_is_my_favorite said:

I am upset that Goeido fought Tamawashi to get the yusho instead of going against Endo, the only other rikishi in yusho contention. Rank differences be what they may if on day 14 there are only two rikishi who could win the tournament then they should go against each other. Especially, a match against Tamawashi determines the yusho? They should have at least done Mitakeumi who is a higher rank and had the same record. smh it seems that organization interest dictated the last matches.

This made total sense to me from the Sumo Association's standpoint. If Goeido fights Endo on day 14 and wins the only drama on day 15 is the zensho yusho. If he loses the only drama on day 15 is the yusho. You have the chance for a playoff but the 2 principles would not be head to head to determine that.  With how they did it if Goeido lost on Day 14 and Endo won he could fight Endo on 15 with the yusho on the line and Endo's fate in his own hands. it's much more dramatic.

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11 minutes ago, Bumpkin said:

Kinta;  With all do respect, I feel that you are discriminating against Endo merely because he is, well, Endo..  If our boy Ikioi had been in Endo's spot, would you feel the same way?

Of course, even though our boy Ikioi has a 12-3 jun yusho from 4E, and an additional 10-5 from 4E, something Endou can only dream about at the moment. And yes, if "our boy" was in the same position, I would feel exactly the same way. It's the numbers, not the heart. And I have nothing against Endou.  Where on earth did you get that impression? His numbers suck. Simple as that. Do you want to argue with the numbers as well?

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Brilliant! Really enjoyed the performance of Goeido this basho, he certainly earned his first Makuuchi yusho. I hope that big slice of humble pie isn't too bitter for his critics to choke down. This is also a welcome reward and first Makuuchi yusho for Sakaigawa-oyakata (former Komusubi Ryogoku), who has steadily developed a large and successful heya over almost two decades now. (Yusho winner...)

It's so nice to have THIS Endo back. When he's in shape there are few rikishi with better balance and timing. He makes it look so easy. I agree to an extent that this is how he should be doing at such a rank, and that he still has work to do to replicate it at the sharp end of Makuuchi. One could write the same thing about Osunaarashi, actually.

Gagamaru's bad attitude really stunk up the place. I wouldn't be at all sad to see him lose tomorrow and depart for Juryo where he belongs.

Finally, it just struck me that Tokoyasu - who was responsible for Sadanoumi's hair - reached the mandatory retirement age shortly before the 2015 Nagoya basho began, and that is when Sadanoumi's seven-basho make-koshi streak started. (Twilight Zone music plays...)

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35 minutes ago, Rocks said:

This made total sense to me from the Sumo Association's standpoint. If Goeido fights Endo on day 14 and wins the only drama on day 15 is the zensho yusho. If he loses the only drama on day 15 is the yusho. You have the chance for a playoff but the 2 principles would not be head to head to determine that.  With how they did it if Goeido lost on Day 14 and Endo won he could fight Endo on 15 with the yusho on the line and Endo's fate in his own hands. it's much more dramatic.

Endo wasn't going to meet Goeido on Day 15 either, even if Goeido had lost today.

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50 minutes ago, Bumpkin said:

Kinta;  With all do respect, I feel that you are discriminating against Endo merely because he is, well, Endo..  If our boy Ikioi had been in Endo's spot, would you feel the same way?

If you are in Green Bay then you are likely a native American English speaker, so I'm pulling Grammar Police on you - it's "all DUE respect" (as in 'all respect due to you') not "all DO respect" (which doesn't mean anything). Did you sleep your way through basic English in school?

That said, all you need to know about Endo is look at his rank when he got those fancy win totals. 10 wins at M8 and M12, 11 wins at M15. Then consider the level of his competition at those ranks - not much. When he does get promoted to the higher ranks, into the "meat grinder" some might say, he ends up with records such as M1 = 3 wins, M3 = 6 wins, M4 = 4 wins, M6 = 3 wins. Endo's a journeyman, with a wall to break through consistently at mid-Maegashira to be considered a serious threat.

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