After party- Hakuhou admits injuries and talks about Kisenosato

[Akinomaki 41,839]

Hakuho for the first time apologized to Izutsu-oyakata personally for causing severe injury.

So far only Miyagino-oyakata went to Izutsu to apologize.

http://www.nikkansports.com/battle/sumo/news/1652489.html

[808morgan 814]

There is more about Kisenosato. "He's a strong Ozeki. But he has shortcomings.. his habitual behavior, his way of thinking.." added Hakuhou.

Hakuhou holds his annual international "Hakuhou Cup" tournament for youngsters. Some rikishi co-operate. Kisenosato never shows up. "He should show his face at the tournament. He can give some advice to the kids and stuff, " said Hakuhou.

The rikishi-kai (rikishi's association) shot a fan-service video of all the guys singing the "Hiyonoyama (that sumo mascot yellow doll) Counting Song" for the benefit of the fans before the January Basho. Kisenosato looks like someone put a gun to his head and when everyone is waving he is clearly very much not into it. "What's that all about? It's important to go after your one goal in life but if that is all he has he will never become number one. There are so many things to do outside of the training room that can help him achieve his goal as well.." said Hakuhou.

Wow, I don't remember ever reading something remotely like this..

Kise did look like someone stole his ice cream in that song video. I wondered why he was so sour in that, it's like how Prince was behaving for We Are the World, just no lollipop.

[CT3* 331]

808morgan

As a huge Prince fan, I like your analogy! (Showing respect...)

[Dapeng 236]

......

But what I found most interesting was Hakuho's admission that he purposefully gave up Kisenosato's preferred left inside grip. I've often suspected that Hakuho sometimes gives his opponents "chances" and its up to the opponent to capitalize. Kisenosato couldn't.

"...... that he purposefully gave up Kisenosato's preferred left inside grip" -------- Can this be counted as a kind of "mukyrioku"?

Some people said Hakuho is not supposed to use harite (face slapping), kachiage (forearm blowing), etc, not to say using nekotamashi (cat-cheating) ......

It's said that the great ozeki Raiden was forbidden to use some destructive but legal skills.

Edited May 25, 2016 by Dapeng

[CT3* 331]

"...... that he purposefully gave up Kisenosato's preferred left inside grip" -------- Can this be counted as a kind of "mukyrioku"?

I don't count it as such....and I have no desire to open that particular can of worms. I think that sometimes Hakuho has to continue to find ways to motivate himself and keep things interesting. I've watched him closely over the years and at times it seems pretty clear (to me, anyway) that he sometimes tries new things/techniques, different kimarites, etc. I remember one basho a few years back where it seemed clear he was trying to win with a different kimarite each day.

As for the match against Kisenosato? Those two have a history. And as Kintamayama already stated, it doesn't seem that Hakuho likes Kisenosato very much. Perhaps it was Hak's way of saying, "See? You can't beat me even if you have your favorite grip!" or perhaps Hakuho was looking to prove something to or challenge himself. Or maybe Hakuho is just messing with Kisenosato's head. We'll never know.

[Benevolance 2,534]

I suspect Hakuho remembers who broke his winning streak, twice.

[Dapeng 236]

"...... that he purposefully gave up Kisenosato's preferred left inside grip" -------- Can this be counted as a kind of "mukyrioku"?

I don't count it as such....and I have no desire to open that particular can of worms. I think that sometimes Hakuho has to continue to find ways to motivate himself and keep things interesting. I've watched him closely over the years and at times it seems pretty clear (to me, anyway) that he sometimes tries new things/techniques, different kimarites, etc. I remember one basho a few years back where it seemed clear he was trying to win with a different kimarite each day.

As for the match against Kisenosato? Those two have a history. And as Kintamayama already stated, it doesn't seem that Hakuho likes Kisenosato very much. Perhaps it was Hak's way of saying, "See? You can't beat me even if you have your favorite grip!" or perhaps Hakuho was looking to prove something to or challenge himself. Or maybe Hakuho is just messing with Kisenosato's head. We'll never know.

On the current banzuke, Kise has the second-best records against Hakuho after Harumafuji, although he only won less than 1/3 of his bouts with Hakuho. Hakuho, by admitting that he had let Kise take his favorite grip, he sent out a message that Kise is not able to beat him, thus answered the prebasho rumor that if Kise beat Hakuho (and the other yokozuna) Kise would be qualified for promotion.

[WAKATAKE 2,759]

I suspect Hakuho remembers who broke his winning streak, twice.

Well let's make it interesting then. I predict that Kise will beat Hakuho to end his streak AGAIN.

[Akinomaki 41,839]

Rather than being injured himself, Hakuho keeps causing broken bones.
Goeido got a broken left orbital floor from him on day 12. Because he didn't have a kachi-koshi then, in consultation with Sakaigawa-oyakata he continued the basho - and finished 9-6. Surgery may be necessary.

He won't be in the torikumi for the intai-zumo of Wakanosato today - tomorrow Kyokutenho - only in the dohyo-iri.

http://www.sanspo.com/sports/news/20160528/sum16052805010001-n1.html

[Kintamayama 47,278]

Goueidou's injury is a left eye socket bone fracture and he is checking options for surgery, visiting a few hospitals to see which one to choose. The injury came from the tachi-ai forearm-elbow kachi-age blow received from Hakuhou.

Edited May 28, 2016 by Kintamayama

[Atenzan 1,084]

This reminds me of a certain cricketing famous moment. (strong language)

[Kintamayama 47,278]

No surgery for Goueidou. "The eyeball is not dislocated and the pain has subsided. I have been told to rest at home for three weeks, but like Kintamayama said, no surgery for me at this point," he said to waiting journalists yesterday.

"I recommended he go kyujo for the last three days of the basho but he was Adam Ant and stayed in." said Sakaigawa Oyakata. Goueidou eventually won 2 of his last 3 matches and got his kachikoshi.

July? - "OK!!" said Goueidou.

Edited May 29, 2016 by Kintamayama

[Kishinoyama 625]

...., but like Kintamayama said, no surgery for me at this point," he said to waiting journalists yesterday.

(Laughing...)

I almost believe this really happened. :-P

[Morningstar 118]

No surgery for Goueidou. "The eyeball is not dislocated and the pain has subsided. I have been told to rest at home for three weeks, but like Kintamayama said, no surgery for me at this point," he said to waiting journalists yesterday.

"I recommended he go kyujo for the last three days of the basho but he was Adam Ant and stayed in." said Sakaigawa Oyakata. Goueidou eventually won 2 of his last 3 matches and got his kachikoshi.

July? - "OK!!" said Goueidou.

I am glad to hear this. I just hope he got really good medical advice. This kind of injury in other full contact combat sports would usually result in a 6+ month medical suspension, and require a cat scan to prove it is fully healed.

Sumo really should consider getting a medical board that can hand out non-punitive suspensions for rikishi safety and health. I am sure the Nevada Commission would be very happy to help them with this. They have been the world standard in combat sport safety for a very long time.

[Kintamayama 47,278]

There is more about Kisenosato. "He's a strong Ozeki. But he has shortcomings.. his habitual behavior, his way of thinking.." added Hakuhou.

And Kisenosato responds. "I am living as a rikishi. I can only express myself on the dohyo!!"

Edited May 31, 2016 by Kintamayama

[Benevolance 2,534]

Kise just needs to be consistent and do what he's done the last two basho. He can beat Hak about 1 in 3 times, and that's actually a pretty good record. But in the past, Kise's dropped dumb matches to weak rikishi; something Hak almost never does. So, when Kise beats Hak, it's rarely relevant. Now, in the last two basho, Kise has had his head in the game from the get-go.

Two basho is hardly a trend. But if Kise can keep this current level up, he'll get a yusho. Though I'm less convinced he can parlay that into a tsuna.

[Dapeng 236]

Kise just needs to be consistent and do what he's done the last two basho. He can beat Hak about 1 in 3 times, and that's actually a pretty good record. But in the past, Kise's dropped dumb matches to weak rikishi; something Hak almost never does. So, when Kise beats Hak, it's rarely relevant. Now, in the last two basho, Kise has had his head in the game from the get-go.

Two basho is hardly a trend. But if Kise can keep this current level up, he'll get a yusho. Though I'm less convinced he can parlay that into a tsuna.

Kisenosato vs Hakuho: 13 wins 43 losses. About 1 win in every 4 bouts (winning 23.6%).

[ALAKTORN 346]

Kise just needs to be consistent and do what he's done the last two basho. He can beat Hak about 1 in 3 times, and that's actually a pretty good record. But in the past, Kise's dropped dumb matches to weak rikishi; something Hak almost never does. So, when Kise beats Hak, it's rarely relevant. Now, in the last two basho, Kise has had his head in the game from the get-go.

Two basho is hardly a trend. But if Kise can keep this current level up, he'll get a yusho. Though I'm less convinced he can parlay that into a tsuna.

Kisenosato vs Hakuho: 13 wins 43 losses. About 1 win in every 4 bouts (winning 23.6%).

That’s closer to 1:3 than 1:4.

[d_golem 213]

If it's 13 wins in 43 bouts then yes closer to 1:3, however it's 13 wins in 56 bouts, so 1:4 is acually correct.

Kise should concentrate a month or so training solely developing a Hakuho-killer move of sorts, seeing he's pretty much what's standing between him and sumo immortality...

[bettega 433]

... where I can bet for Hakuho in this match? (Enjoying a beer...)

[Benevolance 2,534]

It's 1:5 overall, 1:4 if you look at it since Kise made ozeki, 1:3 if you look at the past three years. Kise is narrowing the ratio in matches against Hak.

...but, my point was that this is hardly useful alone. Hak is almost always finishing 12-3 or better. His 12-3 performances are usually a jun-yusho. So while Kise needs to be able to beat Hak, yes, he needs to be going into the final weekend with the same score or better than Hak to have a reasonable chance at winning a yusho. The guys who are not Hak and who won yushos typically finished with 14-1 scores or better. Tenho and Terunofuji notwithstanding, and the tinfoil hat guys can address those yushos.

If Kise comes in down a win or two, yet manages to beat Hak, what is the best that happens? A face off, against someone who is going to take 2 out of 3 (or 3 out of 4, I don't care how you figure it) matches. The last two tournaments, Kise has beat the guys he has supposed to beat. He's actively been in contention until the last three days. He simply needs to keep doing that.

But, many guys can put together a couple good back-to-back tournaments. Ama and Kakuryu parlayed those into tsunas. Perhaps we've Kise's best with a pair of 13-2s. I don't know. Nagoya will be interesting to watch, at least.

[Atenzan 1,084]

It's 1:5 overall, 1:4 if you look at it since Kise made ozeki, 1:3 if you look at the past three years. Kise is narrowing the ratio in matches against Hak.

...but, my point was that this is hardly useful alone. Hak is almost always finishing 12-3 or better. His 12-3 performances are usually a jun-yusho. So while Kise needs to be able to beat Hak, yes, he needs to be going into the final weekend with the same score or better than Hak to have a reasonable chance at winning a yusho. The guys who are not Hak and who won yushos typically finished with 14-1 scores or better. Tenho and Terunofuji notwithstanding, and the tinfoil hat guys can address those yushos.

If Kise comes in down a win or two, yet manages to beat Hak, what is the best that happens? A face off, against someone who is going to take 2 out of 3 (or 3 out of 4, I don't care how you figure it) matches. The last two tournaments, Kise has beat the guys he has supposed to beat. He's actively been in contention until the last three days. He simply needs to keep doing that.

But, many guys can put together a couple good back-to-back tournaments. Ama and Kakuryu parlayed those into tsunas. Perhaps we've Kise's best with a pair of 13-2s. I don't know. Nagoya will be interesting to watch, at least.

The problem with Kisenosato isn't that he can't beat the guys he's supposed to beat. On his day, he can beat anyone, even Hakuhou. However, the fact remains that he isn't as mentally strong- in other words, he chokes. Just like that guy in your bar's monthly pool tournament who beats everyone easily in the first round but can't comfortably pull off a single shot in the final, Kisenosato has a mental block and can't get 14 wins or a yusho. It isn't a coincidence that he is the only man in the history of Ozumo with 10 jun-yusho amd no cup, and I daresay that it's not a coincidence that he has four 13-2s and no 14-1.

[Katooshu 3,485]

Although prior to last basho you couldve also said that he'd never gotten more than 11 wins in consecutive tournaments, but then he managed to achieve something he'd never done before with consecutive 13-2's (and what about Giku prior to his yusho?). Fourteen is just a win off 13, and despite his choking tendencies I'm not sure that he's incapable of going 14-1.

Edited June 5, 2016 by Katooshu

[Atenzan 1,084]

Although prior to last basho you couldve also said that he'd never gotten more than 11 wins in consecutive tournaments, but then he managed to achieve something he'd never done before with consecutive 13-2's (and what about Giku prior to his yusho?). Fourteen is just a win off 13, and despite his choking tendencies I'm not sure that he's incapable of going 14-1.

Duly noted, but these are two different things. Kotoshougiku's yusho didn't come completely out of the blue partly due to having seen him in Aki and Kyushu (remember, he was injured in Aki), but mainly because his best performances are somewhat periodical and last for precious little time- in fact, his yusho was the only time he managed to stay in very good touch during the entire basho, from personal memory.

Kisenosato on the other hand is more consistent in his best outings, and his purple patches last for longer. Overall he is considered better than Giku, but it is difficult for him to raise his absolute personal best. I don't know which other sports you follow, but if Kisenosato is a very poor man's Sachin Tendulkar, Kotoshougiku is a very poor man's Brian Lara. Most would argue that Sachin was a better batsman than Lara, but Lara at his very best was better than Sachin at his very best. Sachin was more consistent and he could reach 100 more often than Lara could, but Lara, even though he showed up in **top** form once in a long long while, he could reach 200 far more often than Sachin.

Now this preamble might seem off-topic, but here's where it comes into play. This Kisenosato with this mental strength finds it extremely difficult to raise his career peak. Even though he is undoubdedly better, the only thing this has led to is more consistency. He is not incapable of 14-1 and if he gets it I'll be cheering for the man myself, but for him right now 13-2 and 14-1 are more than one win apart. There is a glass wall in the way that his body and mind, at this stage of his career and life, find impossible to advance thorough.

This post will look sillier than the 2014 Ozeki Ichinojo bandwagon does now after the Kisenosato 14-1Y performance that will smash my analysis into a million pieces.

[kuroimori 1,634]

If it's 13 wins in 43 bouts then yes closer to 1:3, however it's 13 wins in 56 bouts, so 1:4 is acually correct.

Kise should concentrate a month or so training solely developing a Hakuho-killer move of sorts, seeing he's pretty much what's standing between him and sumo immortality...

...than he will probably lose to 2-3 other guys that he forgot about wwhile focusing on beating the Hakster...