Senkoho

Nishikido situation; split from kyujo thread

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11 hours ago, Bumpkin said:

 

Once again, I wanted Brodi to succeed.  If crimes were committed, I want those responsible to be punished.  If Nishikido knew, condoned or was negligent then he should also be punished.  I realize in a few years no one will know or care about this.  Let the record show, that I do care.  That's all.

 

I agree. The public doesn't need to know what happened. They do need to know what didn't happen. For instance is his injury and intai related to an incident? No? Fine athlete's get injured all the time, no biggie. But if that's the case why are individuals being publicly punished, cutting hair and essentially suspended and demoted because of it, for whatever happened? Why are people being punished with no explanation? This is how the Sumo Association operates? This is supposed to be nobody's business? Are young men who might be interested in joining the sport supposed to get a good impression from this? Frankly, the whole situation was handled very poorly IMHO.

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I agree 100%.  This is on Nishinoshima and others "in the know".  If nothing illegal happened, which I seriously doubt, then just say so.  If, however, something illegal did happen then shout it from the mountain top.  Tell the world and to hell with "access" to heyas.  Once again, is this too much to ask?

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1 hour ago, Rocks said:

But if that's the case why are individuals being publicly punished, cutting hair and essentially suspended and demoted because of it, for whatever happened? Why are people being punished with no explanation? This is how the Sumo Association operates? This is supposed to be nobody's business? Are young men who might be interested in joining the sport supposed to get a good impression from this? Frankly, the whole situation was handled very poorly IMHO.

There was an explanation: "They envy me my young wife."

This is how the Sumo Association operates. The Oyakata have a fairly free hand, and all else is nobody's business. In Japan, don't stand out. The NSK tries to control what they can and cover up all as needed. Don't talk about fight club.

Trying to recall the oyakata who got mad at one of his rikishi one day, cut the rikishi's mage off and turned in his retirement papers. Immediate end of career, because of a sudden snit. This was within (I think) the last 5 years.

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1 hour ago, Rocks said:

why are individuals being publicly punished, cutting hair and essentially suspended

Not publicly, secretly. Since they were kyujo and out of sight for a while, no outsider can tell if their hair was really cut shorter. The article contains not much information, it concentrates on putting the blame on the new wife and how Nishikido lost contact to sumo because of her.

The heya is basically down to 3 rikishi and is falling apart before our eyes.

Edited by Akinomaki
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1 minute ago, Fukurou said:

There was an explanation: "They envy me my young wife."

2 immediately retired and 2 more haven't hit the dohyo, essentially resting their careers to 0,  in 3 basho over envy? He decimates a stable over envy? Come on. If something is "nobody's business" then they shouldn't be publicly punished then.  The Oyakata should have a lot of leeway but that is ridiculous.

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2 minutes ago, Rocks said:

2 immediately retired and 2 more haven't hit the dohyo, essentially resting their careers to 0,  in 3 basho over envy? He decimates a stable over envy? Come on. If something is "nobody's business" then they shouldn't be publicly punished then.  The Oyakata should have a lot of leeway but that is ridiculous.

Come on, Rocks. How many guys have you known who do stupid things because of a girl (and vice versa). He's thinking (if that's what he does) with body parts other than his brain.

Menial tasks around the heya are not a punishment option - that's already part of the regular duties of the lower ranked guys. Sumo is a ranked society, with ranks determined by the NSK based on public tournament records. How is he going to punish a rikishi with his rank without the punishment not being public?

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Can we get a picture of this young wife before we jump to any conclusions?

 

No on a serious note, give it a rest guys. Nothing you say here will affect anyone in the know. 

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2 minutes ago, Fukurou said:

Come on, Rocks. How many guys have you known who do stupid things because of a girl (and vice versa). He's thinking (if that's what he does) with body parts other than his brain.

Menial tasks around the heya are not a punishment option - that's already part of the regular duties of the lower ranked guys. Sumo is a ranked society, with ranks determined by the NSK based on public tournament records. How is he going to punish a rikishi with his rank without the punishment not being public?

Not that stupid. Everybody in this heya are lower ranked guys. The people most severely punished were the most senior. They weren't doing any menial tasks. Making them do menial tasks would be quite a punishment.  And being a Oyakata he probably could have used his influence, at least in the ranks they were at, to make their life a bit more miserable with who they had to face on the dohyo.  I think a big part of what went on may have related to the fact that Brodi was a basho or 2 away from becoming the highest ranked Rikishi in the heya. So, yes, I think envy may have played a big part here, but not of the Oyakata's new bride.

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21 minutes ago, Rocks said:

2 immediately retired and 2 more haven't hit the dohyo, essentially resting their careers to 0,  in 3 basho over envy? He decimates a stable over envy? Come on. If something is "nobody's business" then they shouldn't be publicly punished then.  The Oyakata should have a lot of leeway but that is ridiculous.

I think we'd all be surprised how often absences and retirements due to "injuries" are actually due to internally handled penalties or personal issues, if we knew the extent of it. Sometimes it gets into the press (e.g., years ago Miyagino-beya ousted a recent recruit who was caught stealing from his heyamates), most of the time it doesn't go beyond the rumour mill or doesn't get out at all.

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3 hours ago, Akinomaki said:

For reference

 

She is pretty but not that pretty.  Nishikido, on the other hand, is ugly.  I can see why he would abandon the heya in favor of her.  It's a shame Brodi got caught up in the mess.

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4 hours ago, Bumpkin said:

I agree 100%.  This is on Nishinoshima and others "in the know".  If nothing illegal happened, which I seriously doubt, then just say so.  If, however, something illegal did happen then shout it from the mountain top.  Tell the world and to hell with "access" to heyas.  Once again, is this too much to ask?

Are you serious? "It's on Nishinoshima and others in the know?"  Have you considered for a second that maybe Brodi is the one asking not to talk about it? How about that for a novel idea?? You say you've been around sumo for years yet you are going on and on obsessively about this subject as if you are a total newbie to sumo and Japan and have no clue whatsoever about what goes on. Fight club? The secrecy of Fight Club is child's play compared to the secrecy in the sumo world.

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5 hours ago, Rocks said:

 Why are people being punished with no explanation? This is how the Sumo Association operates?

Because they don't answer to you or to anyone unless it's the Ministry of Education.. In the past when serious stuff happened, it reached the papers and went to court. Rikishi have sued their oyakata time and again. This time, nothing. So maybe it was dealt with swiftly and to everyone's satisfaction. 5 people at least left sumo. If it was such a catastrophe, at least one would have gone to the tabloids to sell his story. Didn't happen.

And this is not a Sumo Association problem-it's a specific heya problem. And yes, the NSK is not famous for handling scandals well.

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OK Kinta, out of respect for you and others including Brodi, I will drop it.  For the record, I have not been around sumo for years.  As a teenager, I watched sumo on TV.  I was completely "out" of sumo from 1977 until 2014.  I hope that I have not crossed a boundary on the forum.  My apologies, if I have.

Edited by Bumpkin
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2 minutes ago, Bumpkin said:

OK Kinta, out of respect for you and others including Brodi, I will drop it.  For the record, I have not been around sumo for years.  As a pre-teenager, I watched sumo on TV.  I was completely "out" of sumo from 1977 until 2014.  I hope that I have not crossed a boundary on the forum.

No, you haven't crossed any boundaries. But I think with all the hints being dropped on this thread you should be able to understand by now why "people in the know" are keeping quiet about this. I'm sure you know that sumo does its utmost to keep its skeletons firmly in their various closets. I'm also convinced that all your questions will eventually be answered. For now, it's still too soon.

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3 hours ago, Akinomaki said:

For reference

 

Yukiko Ono? Is she related to Yoko Ono? Just thinking... :-D

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On 29.9.2016 at 14:52, Akinomaki said:

The tabloid Shukan Shincho has an article in the new edition http://www.dailyshincho.jp/article/2016/09281700/?all=1

Of course only a short introduction is on the net: rikishi numbers down half, in June the local koenkai top resigned.

Homarenishiki couldn't endure the "kawaigari" by senior deshi and left for home. 3 named by Homarenishiki were made by the oyakata to go kyujo for Natsu and he cut their hair by 10cm.

read the tabloid for more speculation (might appear on the net later)

It appeared now, in 3 parts

http://www.dailyshincho.jp/article/2016/10051600/?all=1
The local koenkai head gets furious about the wedding etc. and steps down in the end
- the oyakata needs dialysis but eats tempura and sushi like before
- plastic dishes as presents for the wedding guests
- the oyakata rather than marry turned into the patron of a soprano singer

http://www.dailyshincho.jp/article/2016/10060700/?all=1
Homarenishiki leaves, the oyakata punishes 3 rikishi, thinking "We may get sued" "It may turn into an international problem". 2 of the 3 leave the heya in disgust, one other not involved is sick of it and also leaves: 4 rikishi gone, without danpatsu-shiki. The oyakata doesn't stop them, rather says "weaklings are of no use".
Another one leaves for home: only 3 remain in the heya, but 2 of the 5 gone are still heya members (Kaminoyama and Shinshunishiki), which means the oyakata still gets the allowance from the kyokai for them.
http://sumodb.sumogames.de/Rikishi.aspx?shikona=&heya=58&shusshin=-1&b=201609&high=-1&hd=-1&entry=-1&intai=-1&sort=1

http://www.dailyshincho.jp/article/2016/10070700/?all=1  Recap, the oyakata denies it all and defends his wife - vs. the failure of the first engagement of Nishikido with a marriage swindler and now he gets exploited by his wife, who doesn't care about one koenkai head lost: "there are many others"

 

 

 

Edited by Akinomaki
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1 hour ago, Akinomaki said:

It appeared now, in 3 parts 

It sounds like a bad soap opera. I really hope that none of it is true but it seems like some of it is....

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It is never a simple thing, isn't it? Even if half of it isn't true, the situation must have been incomprehensible to Homarenishiki.

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Renting a soundproof homeroom in Italy for 3 months to a year so that his wife can practice?  Certainly sounds like a financial disaster.  If he wants her to continue her opera career and supports her for it, a role as okamisan must be a laugh.

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On 15.10.2016 at 15:17, Akinomaki said:

the oyakata needs dialysis but eats tempura and sushi like before

A program was aired on TBS today, with focus on Nishikido's final stage of renal failure (the kidney function is down to 10%) as the reason for not being at keiko and for his wife being busy to care for him rather than for the heya - 3 times a week 3 hours in hospital for dialysis and of course not fit at all. Not a word about Homarenishiki - additionally retired Kaminoyama gives a short interview ("10 years are enough") and in the last part, his wife gives a long one.

http://datazoo.jp/tv/爆報!THE+フライデー/1006865

quite a lot already on YouTube - to disappear and reappear as usual - it's the main and last part - 1 min at first, then at 24min.

the 720p version

BTW, yesterday I came across a photo with a young Brodi of many years ago - likely has been posted to the forum when he joined, but nice to see again anyway

http://amanaimages.com/info/infoRM.aspx?SearchKey=20055021712

-> http://sp.amanaimages.com/photo/detail/20055021712

20055021712.jpg

 

 

Edited by Akinomaki
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3 hours ago, Akinomaki said:

A program was aired on TBS today, with focus on Nishikido's final stage of renal failure (the kidney function is down to 10%)

 

Wait, what?? This is Mitoizumi, the Salt Shaker we're talking about here. Rather than a mere subplot in a story about why Homarenishiki quit, is this not a big story in itself (at least big enough for its own thread)? Is he close to death? Is a transplant not possible?

Edited by ryafuji

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Sadly, those around 60 years old or more that I've known with renal failure, having to go through the exhausting process of dialysis, have passed away within three years or less.  

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11 minutes ago, Akinomaki said:

Nishikido-beya has a new recruit, no name given, but he was on TV in the recent program about Nishikido: https://youtu.be/XX7Exj5mtno?t=45m05s

and the oyakata is back to asa-geiko, thanks to his wife's care.

http://www.hochi.co.jp/sports/sumo/20161029-OHT1T50022.html

There were many articles about the program - it ends on a bright note: after 4 months of only fighting the illness he has recovered enough to supervise his rikishi nearly every day.

 

Edited by Akinomaki
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