Senkoho

Nishikido situation; split from kyujo thread

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It's not like he didn't know what he was getting into. Bullying in sumo is well publicized. The entire system is Darwinian...

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It's not like he didn't know what he was getting into. Bullying in sumo is well publicized. The entire system is Darwinian...

I think that above all we are handling with human rights, and there is no such hard discipline or tradition that may justify... torture. We don't even know what happened, but I think that everything which is done just in the direction of hurting (badly) someone for fun is far from being acceptable from my pov. And what could be happened just sucks, and has eroded a little my devotion for sumo. I know, it's rhetorical, but he did knew was he was getting into. I think that what happened was a little bit more than what was expectable. Just a theory...

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It's not like he didn't know what he was getting into. Bullying in sumo is well publicized. The entire system is Darwinian...

I think that above all we are handling with human rights, and there is no such hard discipline or tradition that may justify... torture. We don't even know what happened, but I think that everything which is done just in the direction of hurting (badly) someone for fun is far from being acceptable from my pov. And what could be happened just sucks, and has eroded a little my devotion for sumo. I know, it's rhetorical, but he did knew was he was getting into. I think that what happened was a little bit more than what was expectable. Just a theory...

Well being treated well isn't a human right, but I digress. My point, which I've made a few times before, is that sumo, in the end, is the largest people on earth trying to throw each other off a canvas. Of course they aren't going to be the nicest people....

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.....He returned home to Canada last month and is thinking about quitting sumo because he was treated so poorly at Nishikido. Poorly, meaning far worse than the typical bullying of a newcomer. There could be legal action involved.

Bullying is in sumo but the above quote makes me think this was not the typical bullying that is to be expected. And we know that bullying has gotten out of hand before with tragic consequences. :-(

Edited by Kishinoyama
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Well I wish him good luck in his life,but to be honest he never appeared to me to the part from the beginning , he showed any real talent or the potential to develop. With he large body it should have carried him further and at a quicker rate.Sumo is a way of life and I can never see caucasian middle class dude making it to the top in Ozumo. By no way a criticism , but a fact of life. Life in the "west " is too social and soft. The kids who are going to make it need have that Mongolian, Eastern Europe and even Egyptian way of life.One has to know what it is like to " without".No doubt many will disagree with me on this forum but being to make it in Ozumo is not just about having a strong body but also a strong mind with the moto" never give up, always believe in yourself will try to be the best you can be .Integrate fully within the system, don't ask questions and accept it for what it is.if one cannot do this I am sure he will be doomed from the start.

Just my few cents.

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Sekiwake Kaisei (caucasian middle class very social latin-american dude) sends his regards :-)

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As does Sekiwake Takamiyama, the 64th Yokozuna Akebono, and the 67th Yokozuna Musashimaru, ALL of who have varying degrees of Caucasian blood in them, as well as being from the 50th state in the Union (The Very Social Center of the Pacific Ocean). ;-)

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Well I wish him good luck in his life,but to be honest he never appeared to me to the part from the beginning ,

Well, this much I can agree with. He never really looked like he felt comfortable with where he was and what he was doing on the dohyo. He probably had a significant problem with the change in culture, and while we don't know the extent to which he wasn't fitting in, I can imagine from the reports and my own experiences with being an outsider in an athletic situation that it's not very pleasant. As much as the oyakata might have wanted him to develop into a strong rikishi in order to bring prestige to his heya, the other rikishi probably had the opposite idea. They didn't want to see a foreigner come in and blow by all of them, and probably made his life as hard as possible in any way that they could. Again, having experienced this kind of thing in a much milder environment where I at least spoke the same language, there's not much you can do other than just work on things to try to get better, but if you're being actively impeded by your team/heya-mates in order for them to not look as bad, at some point you're going to want to quit. I was always encouraged to continue playing at least that season by those around me, although I knew I wasn't going to ever try to go on to a higher level, but Brody didn't have contact with those that really cared about him, and probably got very little support at all. I can't blame him for not wanting to continue in the kind of situation that I'm imagining that he went through.

So I suppose I might agree a little bit with the later part of your remarks, where one really needs a very strong mental capacity for being able to endure a poor situation in order to succeed at Sumo. And culture might have something to do with the likelihood that one develops that way. But it's something that someone from any culture could develop given the situations that they are put through.

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Crime is crime, not culture. We shall wait the whole story to get uncover. Crime has been committed or just a normal escape from a too different world?

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Well I wish him good luck in his life,but to be honest he never appeared to me to the part from the beginning , he showed any real talent or the potential to develop. With he large body it should have carried him further and at a quicker rate.Sumo is a way of life and I can never see caucasian middle class dude making it to the top in Ozumo. By no way a criticism , but a fact of life. Life in the "west " is too social and soft. The kids who are going to make it need have that Mongolian, Eastern Europe and even Egyptian way of life.One has to know what it is like to " without".No doubt many will disagree with me on this forum but being to make it in Ozumo is not just about having a strong body but also a strong mind with the moto" never give up, always believe in yourself will try to be the best you can be .Integrate fully within the system, don't ask questions and accept it for what it is.if one cannot do this I am sure he will be doomed from the start.

Just my few cents.

It's also all to easy to be a keyboard warrior, huh? You should check yourself before you wreck yourself.

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Well Sumozumo, just checked myself, im not a keyboard warrior are you ??? its clear he did not have what it takes. im sure many guys before him and many guys after him have taken more BS and will take more BS than what he endured.I think he came from a middle class NA back ground, had one big win against and old ageing MS Rikishi who has long past his best days, sadly this was interpreted by his father as a megga win and as a knee jerk reaction, " lets go pro son" nothing wrong here....but the point man in Toyko should have done his homework more thoroughly, which in hindsight and at first appearance is the case..Brodi had the body but not the heart, killer and survival instinct to make it....This was clear from day one..Once again he tried it, got a lucky break which many guys would die for....but he just did not have what it takes......If he did then he would stilL be in Ozumo around MS 10....

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Well I wish him good luck in his life,but to be honest he never appeared to me to the part from the beginning , he showed any real talent or the potential to develop. With he large body it should have carried him further and at a quicker rate.Sumo is a way of life and I can never see caucasian middle class dude making it to the top in Ozumo. By no way a criticism , but a fact of life. Life in the "west " is too social and soft. The kids who are going to make it need have that Mongolian, Eastern Europe and even Egyptian way of life.One has to know what it is like to " without".No doubt many will disagree with me on this forum but being to make it in Ozumo is not just about having a strong body but also a strong mind with the moto" never give up, always believe in yourself will try to be the best you can be .Integrate fully within the system, don't ask questions and accept it for what it is.if one cannot do this I am sure he will be doomed from the start.

Just my few cents.

It's also all to easy to be a keyboard warrior, huh? You should check yourself before you wreck yourself.

Got a new style, (Deep Voice) Watch Out Now..........

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Well Sumozumo, just checked myself, im not a keyboard warrior are you ??? its clear he did not have what it takes. im sure many guys before him and many guys after him have taken more BS and will take more BS than what he endured.I think he came from a middle class NA back ground, had one big win against and old ageing MS Rikishi who has long past his best days, sadly this was interpreted by his father as a megga win and as a knee jerk reaction, " lets go pro son" nothing wrong here....but the point man in Toyko should have done his homework more thoroughly, which in hindsight and at first appearance is the case..Brodi had the body but not the heart, killer and survival instinct to make it....This was clear from day one..Once again he tried it, got a lucky break which many guys would die for....but he just did not have what it takes......If he did then he would stilL be in Ozumo around MS 10....

This post makes my head hurt for so many different reasons.
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What's the point of this rather unpleasant debate if there isn't even word out what exactly happened and what the consequences of these events are?

I'm sorry, but I think it's not right to judge a man who most of us don't know personally and who had the guts to do what he did - go to a country radically different from his home, not speaking the language beforehand and subjecting himself to a harsh and rigorous training, getting injured as well not too long ago iirc.

It was way to early for me to say if I'd be a fan of his or not, but I definitely take my hat off to him. I'm sure I wouldn't have lasted a single week - not even training, simply living - in Japan. The cultural shock would have been too great.

This is just my humble opinion, no offence meant whatsoever.

May I suggest we wait until we find out more about the situation?

Edited by MrGrumpyGills
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I understand the need to reserve judgement until more facts are in. However, it becomes more frustrating as time goes by and little to no information is coming out. It becomes harder to ignore the rumors when there is nothing to contradict them.

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True, but imo rumors are not a good basis to pass judgement or getting worked up about.

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East Makushita 28 Gokushindo

West Makushita 49 Mitoyutaka

East Sandanme 63 Kaminoyama

West Sandanme 77 Homarenishiki

West Sandanme 90 Daigofuji

West Jonidan 47 Shinshunishiki

Six of eight.

Current official status of the six Nishikido rikishi absent last basho:

Gokushindo:
  • On the banzuke at Sandanme E8
  • Not listed as kyujo
Mitoyutaka:
  • Retired after summer basho
Kaminoyama:
  • On the banzuke at Jonidan W23
  • Listed as kyujo
Homarenishiki:
  • On the banzuke at Jonidan W37
  • Listed as kyujo
Daigofuji:
  • Retired after summer basho
Shinshunishiki:
  • Jonokuchi W13
  • Listed as kyujo

Also, there are a handful of negative comments on the Nishikido blog post announcing their banzuke for July.

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I'm confused. Isn't Japan a first-world country? :-O

It is. That's why they can't do well at sumo.

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You just can't beat people making sweeping (and possibly hurtful, damaging and even libellous) pronouncements on issues they know precisely nothing about. They're simply the best.

Edited by Pandaazuma
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Sumo is tough. People from first-world countries aren't.

The Williams Sisters would like to have a word with you on that.

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You just can't beat people making sweeping (and possibly hurtful, damaging and even libellous) pronouncements on issues they know precisely nothing about. They're simply the best.

I think the term troll is used for people like that. Along with some other words that I can think of..... :-)

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