Basho Talk - Natsu Basho 2016 +++ Spoiler Alert! +++

[Adil 232]

Bravo, Ikioi. One of the best endings to a fight I have seen in a while. When I saw that left handed grip by Kakuryu, I said 'Good bye, Ikioi... Try harder next time.', but for once, someone broke Kakuryu's grip. Very satisfying match.

[mikawa 1,794]

for me ura is just another satoyama

Might be closer to Mainoumi, depending on how he does in Makuuchi

[mikawa 1,794]

Now they are talking about him more on air. He is getting pretty popular.

The next Endo maybe?

[Dwale 419]

Now they are talking about him more on air. He is getting pretty popular.

The next Endo maybe?

Not with that face.

[Adil 232]

Although I was rooting for Osunaarashi against Sokokurai, it would have been cool if Sokokurai had managed to pull off that truridashi. I always love a great truridashi. Am still enjoying the one by Takarafuji against Tochinoshin last basho. And what a throw by Hakuho! Just how strong is this guy? Great from Harumafuji as well! He brings something completely new to the table. A basho becomes extra spicy for me when Harumafuji is around.

About Terunofuji: A couple of years ago (don't remember exactly when), I said here that I am very excited about Terunofuji and would be following his career very closely because he was going to go far barring any serious injury. Well, call it a slow acting whammy, but he's got a serious injury at such a young age which appears to be somewhat long term. How's it going to pan out for him? Is he going to overcome it because time is on his side? Or is he going to go down path of those unfortunate athletes who never quite recover? As Moti san says in his digest, he should give consideration to the advisability of withdrawing, because he's obviously not capable of doing anything in his current condition without aggravating his injury.

[torquato 1,075]

Can someone tell me why SHODAI still fights under his real name and did not adopt a "proper" shikona?

Like with Endo. Somehow, rising to quickly up the ranks to realize for the oyakata what to instantiate and when as a proper shikona.

Actually, it's even worse with Endo. He was promised a certain 'heir to the throne' shikona when he makes it to sanyaku, which was taken as granted. He still didn't. In turn, this means he won't get a proper shikona before that happens.

His oyakata even didn't take the 'chance' when he droped down to Juryo for an 'intermediate' shikona, which would have been a very (!) Japanese auspicious move.

In addition, 'Endo' is even much more of an actual every day name like 'Smith' or 'Müller'. 'Shodai' does actually fit quite well into an expected shikona pattern...

[Dwale 419]

I feel like the basho's going pretty much how one would expect, so not a whole lot I feel the need to yammer about...

Shohozan's a scrappy little b******, not to say that's news to anyone.

Enjoyed Mitakeumi and Chiyo3tori. Mitakeumi isn't exactly flying up the ladder to yokozuna-hood, but he's holding his own pretty well. Definitely eager to see more of his development.

Osunaarashi v. Sokokurai was a fun one, too. I was like, "No, you fool, reverse...YES! NO! AAAHHH!" Good times.

Ikioi, man... I think he earns a little more respect from me with every basho. Does he have what it takes to transcend his limitations? I couldn't say, but I know for sure he's trying.

Would love to see Kisenosato take the emperor's cup instead of the "best eyebrows" award again. I'll be cheering him like always.

Terunofuji is...watch that tachi-ai again, it's just...bad. He wants to tough it out, but I wonder at the wisdom of that.

Kotoshogiku's style makes him especially susceptible to henka. No getting around it, he apparently doesn't have a deep bag of tricks to dip into, so take away the force of his (excellent!) tachi-ai and... well, I'm not sure what you would end up with, but probably not an ozeki.

Kotoyuki proving once again his skill in psychological warfare.

Hakuho and Ichinojo was a lively one. While I can't say I'm a fan of Ichinojo's habit of taking a nap while his opponent holds him upright, he's...I don't know. He's cute, somehow. Anyway, entertaining match.

And Harumafuji with a win I'm really hoping someone will turn into a .gif.

[Fukurou 534]

Jesus...my block list is getting longer than ever. Is this kind of ill-informed, boorish abuse of other members now tolerated on this forum?

Ill informed.... not everyone shows up here knowing all, you know. Being boorish, OTOH....

Apologies...I didn't make myself clear.

Nothing to apologize for. After clarification, I agree with your point.

[Yubinhaad 11,501]

Didn't they say that it was last used 4 years ago or something? By Baruto if I heard right? Can't be right, right?

Was a beautiful manouver by Ishiura though, slick hands.

Baruto was probably the most notable rikishi in recent years who won with harimanage, but as Jakusotsu said there have been others since. Kitaharima's younger brother Shimada was also on the losing end of a harimanage in Nagoya last year.

There was a nice nimaigeri (the first of the year) from Kiribayama back on Day 4, but all that did was make me realise how much I'm missing Tokitenku's presence on the dohyo. :-(

[Yubinhaad 11,501]

Someone was asking about kabai-te recently. Correct me if I'm wrong, but the Okinoumi-Ikioi bout proves that the rule is not relevant anymore.

How so? Okinoumi didn't put his hand down to protect Ikioi, he put his hand down to protect himself.

[Gurowake 3,875]

Shodai is not all that common of a name, especially compared to Endo, and isn't all that terrible of a shikona even if it has no stereotypical shikona kanji, although I did mention upon both of his promotions as sekitori that I was surprised he was keeping his family name. The real question is why Sato has kept his. According to this list Sato is the #1 most common Japanese family name. Endo comes in at #40. It's not a matter of there being multiple kanji names pronounced the same, as there are two "Saito"s on the list noted to use different kanji. And given that there are a huge number of Japanese family names for a relatively culturally homogenous country (as opposed to the US, where there are family names in use from almost every culture on the planet), using some of the more popular ones as shikona really stands out compared to using ones that aren't particularly common.

[Tsubame 355]

so take away the force of his (excellent!) tachi-ai and...

Sorry, but a tachi-ai must not consindered to be excellent, if the executer loses to henkas so often.

Storming forward with your head down is maybe very powerful, but in no way somehow close to excellence.

Edited May 13, 2016 by Tsubame

[kuroimori 1,634]

the two Juryo up-and-comers

Ura

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z0IPX_156po

Nice! Thanks for posting the video links - too bad that there is no other camera angle that better shows Ura's move

Again I feel the urge to paraphrase Shakespeare:

"Professional NSK video coverage!

Professional NSK video coverage!

My (non-existing) kingdom for professional NSK video coverage!" (...at a reasonable price, live and on-demand, in HD. Sorry I am getting carried away...)

[kuroimori 1,634]

Giku...

(sorry for the "meme")

can also be applied for the new but at best partially not to say randomly implemented "2-hands-down-tachiai" rule.

Take for example today's bout between KotoHooter against Goeido. If at all, only the fingertips of Goeido's right hand slightly touch the clay. Just ridiculous.

[Dwale 419]

so take away the force of his (excellent!) tachi-ai and...

Sorry, but a tachi-ai must not consindered to be excellent, if the executer loses to henkas so often.

Storming forward with your head down is maybe very powerful, but in no way somehow close to excellence.

Well, it's good enough to make him an ozeki. Oh, and he did win a tournament once, so there's that.

[rhyen 1,799]

Can someone tell me why SHODAI still fights under his real name and did not adopt a "proper" shikona?

because the sumo elders have not come down hard on Satoyama, Endo, Takayasu, Ishiura before this?

[Senkoho 552]

Someone was asking about kabai-te recently. Correct me if I'm wrong, but the Okinoumi-Ikioi bout proves that the rule is not relevant anymore.

How so? Okinoumi didn't put his hand down to protect Ikioi, he put his hand down to protect himself.

I thought the rule covered the protection of either rikishi, but of course I might be wrong.

[RabidJohn 1,632]

Someone was asking about kabai-te recently. Correct me if I'm wrong, but the Okinoumi-Ikioi bout proves that the rule is not relevant anymore.

How so? Okinoumi didn't put his hand down to protect Ikioi, he put his hand down to protect himself.

I thought the rule covered the protection of either rikishi, but of course I might be wrong.

Okinoumi appears to lack commitment. A committed rikishi would have hit the clay with his face and won the bout.

Remember that Harumafuji bout a couple of years ago when he bounced off the top of his head to land on his feet so dazed that he was on his way up the hanamichi to the dressing room before he realised he hadn't collected his kensho? That's commitment!

[Tsubame 355]

so take away the force of his (excellent!) tachi-ai and...

Sorry, but a tachi-ai must not consindered to be excellent, if the executer loses to henkas so often.

Storming forward with your head down is maybe very powerful, but in no way somehow close to excellence.

Well, it's good enough to make him an ozeki. Oh, and he did win a tournament once, so there's that.

He became Ozeki not because of his tachi-ai, but despite this tachi-ai.

Kotoshogiku is a one-trick-pony (belly-bumps). Just like Chiyotaikai (tsuppari). More than good enough to dominate the lower ranks and to stay on top of the banzuke, and also to win a (lucky?) Yusho. Really like Chiyotaikai. A good ozeki, but you never had the thought or feeling that he could become more.

Edited May 13, 2016 by Tsubame

[kosomo 32]

wow. just wow. I just started watching sumo since 2012, so had never heard of Chiyotaikai. You may call him a one-trick-pony but that was impressive. really puts the oshi sumo guys of today to shame (looking at you kotoyuki). that is just another level. so cool (Dribbling...)

(that being said I'll take a cool uwatenage over it any day of the week)

[Benevolance 2,462]

Okinoumi is much too handsome to break his fall with his face; internal studies by the NSK project that an uglification of Okinoumi would depress expected revenues by 34%. In fact, a disaster plan was recently drafted, in which the nearest yobidashi would toss a pillow to break the fall if Okinoumi, Endo or Ikioi looked about to smash their face. Long term plans include creating robotic duplicates that could hold ladies for photos at special events.

[dingo 1,119]

wow. just wow. I just started watching sumo since 2012, so had never heard of Chiyotaikai. You may call him a one-trick-pony but that was impressive. really puts the oshi sumo guys of today to shame (looking at you kotoyuki). that is just another level. so cool (Dribbling...)

(that being said I'll take a cool uwatenage over it any day of the week)

Chiyotaikai was one awesome rikishi indeed, one of my favourites too. You should read up on him more, he has a really interesting background as well.

[rzombie1988 157]

Why don't we all stick to, hmm, not calling each other dicks. Attack a man's ideas, not his character. Also, Kakuryu hasn't been up to form lately, but during his promotion he was destroying everyone. Go back and watch his performances in those 2 basho, and then see if you will question his promotion.

promotion questioned

Since Kakuryu's promotion with 12 bashos(May 2014):

- 1 bogus title win with a henka title winner against an injured Terunofuji and no Hakuho/Harumafuji.(2 titles total)

- 2 Jun-Yusho's

15 wins: 0

14 wins: 0

13 wins: 0

12 wins: 3

11 wins: 2

10 wins: 3

9 wins: 1

Left/Injured: 2

AVG Wins per basho: 10.6(not counting injured/skipped bashos)

Hakuho:

- 8 Titles

- 3 Jun-Yushos

Wins

15: 1

14: 6

13: 1

12: 2

Left/Skipped: 1

AVG wins per tournament - 13.3

Harumafuji:

1 title(7 total)

3 Jun-Yusho's

Wins:

15: 0

14: 0

13: 1

12: 1

11: 4

10: 2

9: 1

Left/skipped: 3

AVG wins per basho: 10.8(not counting injured/skipped bashos)

Kisenosato:

0 titles

4 Jun Yushos

Wins:

15:0

14:0

13:2

12:0

11:3

10:2

9:4

Left/skipped: 0

AVG wins per basho 9

Not enough data for Terunofuji and Kotoshogiku/Goeido are without question below the standard.

My thoughts: Neither Kakuryu or Harumafuji are doing that great and Hakuho is clearly above the standard and more healthy. I think you need at least 12 to even be competitive most bashos. Harumafuji is slightly outperforming Kakuryu. I consider 10 wins to be Ozeki standard and 12 to be Yokozuna standard. I think it's clear Kisenosato and the current Ozeki's(except for non-healthy Terunofuji) aren't on that level.

Edited May 13, 2016 by rzombie1988

[rzombie1988 157]

Jesus...my block list is getting longer than ever. Is this kind of ill-informed, boorish abuse of other members now tolerated on this forum?

Ill informed.... not everyone shows up here knowing all, you know. Being boorish, OTOH....

Apologies...I didn't make myself clear. I meant the adjectives in conjunction with each other. I have no problem with people being ill-informed; just their attacking other people and name-calling while seemingly oblivious to their own ignorance.

Jakusotsu: yes...exactly!

Mods warned everyone and he's still going at it.

[rzombie1988 157]

Quick Day 6 thoughts:

- Goeido wasn't even close on the first try. Excellent call.

- Kaisei didn't look bad just he really doesn't have the belt work on Kisenosato or the higher up rikishi

- Another good call on Ikioi who didn't touch first.

- Power wise, I think Ichinojo shocked Hakuho, but he did nothing with his other hand, making him a one armed man vs a two armed one.

- I'm always mixed between feeling bad for Koto and wondering why he never learns.

- Sokokurai put up a nice power fight vs Osuna. Very surprised by that.

Edited May 13, 2016 by rzombie1988