Basho Talk - Natsu Basho 2016 +++ Spoiler Alert! +++

[Jyuunomori 226]

I am not sure about Ura challenging the Makuchi Yusho. I like him but he lacks the size. Unless he balloons up a bit, he may end up being another Satoyama instead of being another Chionofusi.

But the difference between Ura and Satoyama is the skill.

If you take a spoon and scoop a piece of sand from the ground, that is Satoyama.

Then the leftover ground (essentially Earth) is Ura.

Ura will have problems with the Ozeki, Yokozuna and Sanyaku regulars because they possess great skill also.

I have been watching Ura since he debuted in the championships, before he made his debut in official sumo. And I say that only rikishi currently more technically skilled than him is Harumafuji.

Edit: And with that I am not talking about experience or power. Just pure technical skill.

Basically there are three rikishi reigning each aspect of sumo:

Power = Hakuho

Skill = Harumafuji

Spirit / Experience = Aminishiki

EDIT 2:

Here we have it folks. Fatal-4-way for Juryo Yusho.

Ura, Sato, Chiyonokuni and Asabenkei are all 8-2.

Ura has this.

Edited May 17, 2016 by Jyuunomori

[inhashi 2,363]

Here is that koshinage, Dewahayate v Ura

[Jyuunomori 226]

As I said: The Chosen One

Not only does he possess great offense but he has persistance and Osunaarashi-esque tightrope skills.

[WAKATAKE 2,610]

According to NHK Ura's use of the "koshinage" move to win is the first time in six years that it has been accomplished in Juryo.

[hamcornheinz 839]

awesome. like a young asashoryu.

[Adil 232]

Kisenosato vs Kotoshogiku

(A hundred apologies for the poor quality.)

[Jyuunomori 226]

Kisanosato goes 10-0 two bashos in a row. He honestly has that Yokozuna look and demeanor this basho.

He has been extremely calm and collected the whole time and didn't panic today either. Could he actually pull it off?

We all know he usually crumbles in the second week but we are way into the second week now and he doesn't show the signs he typically shows. If Kisenosato wins the Yusho then he will most likely be promoted. But Ikioi will obviously crush him tomorrow, crush him and the dreams of Japanese Yokozuna. Say what you will though, each of Kisenosato's bouts are the most exciting thing right now.

[mikawa 1,794]

Here is that koshinage, Dewahayate v Ura

That was Asashoryu-level reserval, incredibly quick thinking, and to pull it off like that?

[Ryoshishokunin 259]

It's times like this that I wish that the kyokai's scheduling department had a bit more imagination and held the Kisenosato-Hakuho match for day 15 if they're still undefeated and clear of the field going into the last three days. (The same goes for January and Kotoshogiku, though he was further down the banzuke making it more difficult.)

[WAKATAKE 2,610]

It's times like this that I wish that the kyokai's scheduling department had a bit more imagination and held the Kisenosato-Hakuho match for day 15 if they're still undefeated and clear of the field going into the last three days. (The same goes for January and Kotoshogiku, though he was further down the banzuke making it more difficult.)

With the way the banzuke is set up right now, the E1 Ozeki is de facto W2 Yokozuna. So yeah, that's the way things have to work. Kise will Hakuho on day 13, Kakuryu on day 14, and Harumafuji for day 15.

[WAKATAKE 2,610]

Aminishiki has been discharged from the hospital after having had surgery on his Achilles. According to Isegahama he will start rehabilitation, and has already starting working on upper body training.

http://www.nikkansports.com/battle/sumo/news/1648856.html

Edited May 17, 2016 by WAKATAKE

[orandashoho 720]

Aminishki seems to be able to draw endless recuperating power from his spirit.

[Washuyama 634]

strikes are part of sumo. I don't know why anybody would think anything else. Without strikes you don't have Akebono.

Yep. Sumo isn't wrestling, it's sumo.

The -word for word exact- post I was going to make until I got to yours... (Laughing...)

[wuli 67]

good to hear the old man is doing so well

without our spicy, wily veteran, the basho has been noticeably kinda bland

[taresu 38]

Kisenosato was very calm and patient and his bout today. Is nice to see that he is not panicking and letting his mind take over his body, he is a great rikishi, but the way

Hakuho is doing things now i dunno if he will really get the yusho. 13-2 14-1 maybe. is that enough to be promoted?

So nice to hear about Aminishiki! Really like that guy.

What happened to Kyokushuhou? did he got demoted?

Ura was something beautiful to see, cant wait to see him in makuuchi.

[Asashosakari 18,650]

With the way the banzuke is set up right now, the E1 Ozeki is de facto W2 Yokozuna.

Exactly the wrong way around. If Kisenosato were in fact a de facto yokozuna for scheduling purposes, there would be little problem in shifting around the Hak-Kise bout to Day 15.

[Jyuunomori 226]

When Aminishiki retires I will bawl like hell. I am always dreading when he injures himself.

But somehow he keeps on going, time after time. Duracell.

[Fukurou 534]

What happened to Kyokushuhou? did he got demoted?

He's kyujo from day 1 - didn't recover from surgery in time. (link to the Rikishi Status thread)

[CT3* 331]

Hakuho's standard tachiai attack over the last several bashos has been a slap to the face followed by a forearm shot to the chest. Ikioi came in with his left arm lowered, and he dropped his chin following the slap. The blow that normally hits the chest caught him dead on the chin. Nothing vicious here. Ikioi was unprepared for the expected attack sequence.

A meausured analysis, devoid of hysteria. Much appreciated!

[hamcornheinz 839]

strikes are part of sumo. I don't know why anybody would think anything else. Without strikes you don't have Akebono.

Slapping with open hand is part of sumo. Striking a chin with elbow is not, as I understand the game. Someone correct me if I am wrong on this. That's not to say that others don't do it. I just wish Ikio remembers it the next time he faces Fakhuho and return it in kind.

yeah, you're wrong.

[Orion 431]

Here is that koshinage, Dewahayate v Ura

Ouch!

Orion

[Morty 1,469]

Kisanosato goes 10-0 two bashos in a row. He honestly has that Yokozuna look and demeanor this basho.

He has been extremely calm and collected the whole time and didn't panic today either. Could he actually pull it off?

We all know he usually crumbles in the second week but we are way into the second week now and he doesn't show the signs he typically shows.

Maybe he finally saw that sports psychologist I've been talking about for years...

I don't know what has happened, but he has somehow managed to deal with his head, which has always been his single greatest enemy. I thought the Geek had him twice today but the Kid managed to get out of it both times and then pull off the win. I would love for him to pull this off.

A while ago Nishinoshima said the only viewpoint that counts in sumo is the long view. So I have been doing a bit of research on the database and have come up with an interesting comparison, as follows. Counting only those matches competed in (ie, not including kyujo records), the top four rikishi have the following records at their current rank:

Winning percentage at the rank of Ozeki:

Kisenosato = 70.25%

Winning percentage at the rank of Yokozuna:

Hak = 89.2%

Harumafuji = 73.53%

Kakaryu = 70.8%

And for the sake of a historical comparison, the previous 13 Yokozunae:

Asashoryu = 83.57%

Akebono = 77.98%

Asahifuji = 72.45%

Hokotoumi = 77.4%

Musashimaru = 77.7%

Takanohana = 82.34%

Wakanohana III = 63.54%

Futahaguro = 70.47%

Onokuni = 67.01%

Takanosato = 71.97%

Chiyonofuji = 85.61%

Meinoumi = 73.33%

Wakanohana II = 75.80%

Based on this you would say that HF and Kak, are both at the weaker end of the Yok scale, as would Kise be if he were to get it. Nevertheless, they all have a winning percentage that fits in appropriately with what is considered a Yokozuna worthy level of performance. I would also argue that, if they hadn't had the misfortune to have been competing at the same time as Hak (the greatest of all time), HF, Kak and Kise would all have slightly better winning records than they do, and that their records are slightly lower than the historical average because they are competing at the same time as the GOAT.

Based on this, the only thing missing from Kisenosato's resume is a couple of Yusho to make him Yokozuna worthy. The only real difference between him and well over half a dozen current and past Yokozuna, is his inability to win the cup at the end of the two weeks. His overall winning percentage at Ozeki, his head to head record against Hak, Kak and HF, and the number of Jun-yushos he has won, all suggest he should be a Yok. All he needs to do now is win one (hopefully this one) and I would argue he deserves the rope, based on his long term performance as an Ozeki.

And for the sake of argument, the records of these guys at Ozeki is:

Baruto = 66.5%

Kotooshu = 59.71%

Kotoshogiku = 59.79%

Kaio = 62.53%

Konishiki = 64.13%

Tochiazuma = 63.88%

Chiyotakai = 60.59%

These are Ozeki level performances. Anything over 70% is Yokozuna worthy...

[Gurowake 3,872]

They didn't even rejigger the schedule back in Kyushu to get Harumafuji vs. Hakuho on the last day, and in that case it was clear the other two of the top 4 were out of the running. That match also took place on Day 13 and probably "should have" been on Day 15. The problem is that they are somewhat forced by the rank situation, wanting the last bout of the tournament to be between 2 Yokozuna, with one of them being the guy at the top of the banzuke. So while they could switch Day 14 and Day 15, they can't move Day 13 onto Day 15, whether a direct switch or by rotating through Day 14.

[hamcornheinz 839]

Everyone of the Ozeki on that list sorta peaked at ozeki and then held out at 8-7 for a great many years though, while yokozuna are expected to retire when they can only manage an 8-7. So the list isn't completely accurate.

[Dapeng 232]

Kisanosato goes 10-0 two bashos in a row. He honestly has that Yokozuna look and demeanor this basho.

He has been extremely calm and collected the whole time and didn't panic today either. Could he actually pull it off?

We all know he usually crumbles in the second week but we are way into the second week now and he doesn't show the signs he typically shows.

Maybe he finally saw that sports psychologist I've been talking about for years...

I don't know what has happened, but he has somehow managed to deal with his head, which has always been his single greatest enemy. I thought the Geek had him twice today but the Kid managed to get out of it both times and then pull off the win. I would love for him to pull this off.

A while ago Nishinoshima said the only viewpoint that counts in sumo is the long view. So I have been doing a bit of research on the database and have come up with an interesting comparison, as follows. Counting only those matches competed in (ie, not including kyujo records), the top four rikishi have the following records at their current rank:

Winning percentage at the rank of Ozeki:

Kisenosato = 70.25%

Winning percentage at the rank of Yokozuna:

Hak = 89.2%

Harumafuji = 73.53%

Kakaryu = 70.8%

And for the sake of a historical comparison, the previous 13 Yokozunae:

Asashoryu = 83.57%

Akebono = 77.98%

Asahifuji = 72.45%

Hokotoumi = 77.4%

Musashimaru = 77.7%

Takanohana = 82.34%

Wakanohana III = 63.54%

Futahaguro = 70.47%

Onokuni = 67.01%

Takanosato = 71.97%

Chiyonofuji = 85.61%

Meinoumi = 73.33%

Wakanohana II = 75.80%

Based on this you would say that HF and Kak, are both at the weaker end of the Yok scale, as would Kise be if he were to get it. Nevertheless, they all have a winning percentage that fits in appropriately with what is considered a Yokozuna worthy level of performance. I would also argue that, if they hadn't had the misfortune to have been competing at the same time as Hak (the greatest of all time), HF, Kak and Kise would all have slightly better winning records than they do, and that their records are slightly lower than the historical average because they are competing at the same time as the GOAT.

Based on this, the only thing missing from Kisenosato's resume is a couple of Yusho to make him Yokozuna worthy. The only real difference between him and well over half a dozen current and past Yokozuna, is his inability to win the cup at the end of the two weeks. His overall winning percentage at Ozeki, his head to head record against Hak, Kak and HF, and the number of Jun-yushos he has won, all suggest he should be a Yok. All he needs to do now is win one (hopefully this one) and I would argue he deserves the rope, based on his long term performance as an Ozeki.

And for the sake of argument, the records of these guys at Ozeki is:

Baruto = 66.5%

Kotooshu = 59.71%

Kotoshogiku = 59.79%

Kaio = 62.53%

Konishiki = 64.13%

Tochiazuma = 63.88%

Chiyotakai = 60.59%

These are Ozeki level performances. Anything over 70% is Yokozuna worthy...

You also need to check the yokozuna's ozeki numbers, i.e., the average winning when they were ozeki.

As to Kisenosato, he averages more than 10 wins per basho as ozeki. Most of those with equivalent or better winnings in the past were promoted to Yokozuna.