Basho Talk - Natsu Basho 2016 +++ Spoiler Alert! +++

[Gurowake 3,874]

Or even let himself get demoted and fight his way back. He was a Yokozuna candidate in most people's eyes yet he seems worried about maintaining Ozeki, which he'll more likely do in the long run by fully healing even if that means demotion for a year or so, than trying to hang on while he can and not get better.

[rhyen 1,799]

http://www.sanspo.com/sports/news/20160516/sum16051605020006-n1.html

general sentiment? or is this media trying to play up kisenosato's performance and hinkaku?

How were the news report on Asashoryu when Hakuho was gunning for yokozuna promotion?

[Dwale 419]

I'm not sure that is so. Hakuho has dedicated literally half his life, more or less 24-7-365, to sumo. Along the way he learned a foreign language, adapted to a foreign culture, and became an the avatar and ambassador of sumo in his role as yokozuna. I think in some ways he is very disappointed that the fans do not appreciate his acheivements and dedication, and cheer loud and long for any Japanese national across the shikiri-sen from him. Akebono and Musashimaru never had to experience such bias from the fans. But, they did share their roles as yokozuna with the Hanada brothers. It's not Asashoryu nor Hakuho's fault that no local rival has risen to the challenge, but it must hurt to be scorned by the fans after pouring their heart and soul into sumo. At least some of Hakuho's recent antics seem to be a reaction to a percieved disrespect from the fans attending honbasho.

That in as much is obvious. However he does himself no favors by the ring edge tactics that either leave opponents bloodied, a judge in the hospital, or however other ways he can to show the nice friendly gesture to the fans. Fans like great matches, and by betraying the excitement that the fans are looking for in a match by side stepping doesn't help his cause either. I know, I know. Hakuho is free to do sumo as he pleases. I'm not Hakuho, I don't know what's going on in his mind, but as a former athlete who is trying to get back into his own ring, you never feel great by cheating or playing by ways that may seem unethical or kills the momentum even if it's legal in the sport. Sportsmanship is a pet peeve of mine, and Hakuho clearly has lacked it. He is a great wrestler, and has achieved many great things. That can never be taken away. However where attitude is unbecoming of his rank, it is surely something that will come back to bite him in the ass. He may think he doesn't need friends, but the way you treat people sometimes can show in their attitude towards you later on when you don't have the power over them like you used to. Hakuho may be in for a very rude awakening come retirement time.

Both of you bring up excellent points. Neither I nor anyone else can say with absolute certainty what goes through Hakuho's mind.

But, I do know without a doubt that if I was in a foreign land participating in one of the most sacred and venerable traditions of that place, and happened to become its ambassador to the masses, I would try to embody of the ideals of that tradition. In the case of sumo, that involves more than athletic prowess. I hate to sound like a broken record, but this is not just a sport.

For anyone prepared to leap to Hakuho's defense, two questions:

1) Does rikishi status, sekitori status, the yokozuna rank in particular, entail certain ill-defined but nevertheless essential standards of behavior, including but not limited to ideals of sportsmanship as defined by Japanese cultural norms?

2) Assuming these standards exist, does Hakuho meet them?

This is not complicated for me. A yokozuna is supposed to embody not sumo, but an IDEAL of sumo, an existence that most rikishi, even very skilled ones, never obtain. Whose ideal of sumo is henka and dame-oshi?

[wuli 67]

Both of you bring up excellent points. Neither I nor anyone else can say with absolute certainty what goes through Hakuho's mind.

But, I do know without a doubt that if I was in a foreign land participating in one of the most sacred and venerable traditions of that place, and happened to become its ambassador to the masses, I would try to embody of the ideals of that tradition. In the case of sumo, that involves more than athletic prowess. I hate to sound like a broken record, but this is not just a sport.

For anyone prepared to leap to Hakuho's defense, two questions:

1) Does rikishi status, sekitori status, the yokozuna rank in particular, entail certain ill-defined but nevertheless essential standards of behavior, including but not limited to ideals of sportsmanship as defined by Japanese cultural norms?

2) Assuming these standards exist, does Hakuho meet them?

This is not complicated for me. A yokozuna is supposed to embody not sumo, but an IDEAL of sumo, an existence that most rikishi, even very skilled ones, never obtain. Whose ideal of sumo is henka and dame-oshi?

gee,

maybe poor hakuho will read your post, and can begin to learn from you what it means to be a yokozuna

sheesh!

Edited May 16, 2016 by wuli

[kumasama 28]

At this point, it seems that everything Hakuho does gets hyper-scrutinized and critiqued. I didn't see much to complain about in the Kotoyuki bout.

Especially not the angry pull and shove way after the match, after he did all he could to not administer that extra shove that he so wanted to. Watch the body language. A Yokozuna is always scrutinized and held to the highest standards. When it was Asashouryuu it was why this and that. Even Akebono was under fire. Waka (weak), Taka (witch doctor and general strangeness)-everyone and his reason.And mind you, it's not us couch fans scrutinizing from afar-it's the Kyokai cronies, including his own Oyakata on air on national TV saying he asked Hakuhou countless times to take it easy but "he gets hot headed during bouts-what can we do?"

So yeah, he is overboard, if one from the other side of the world may say so.

It was like someone on a diet with the ice cream in the freezer.

"No, I shouldn't!"

...

"Oh, all right, just a little one..."

[rhyen 1,799]

Sato loses after getting KK, foot off the accelerator?

Followed by Chiyonokuni as well...

Edited May 16, 2016 by rhyen

[Akinomaki 39,526]

Sato had a false start matta - a loss after that is quite common.

Ura came again with the kesho mawashi from the beginning, seems he likes it best - only 3 days for the one from his university.

[Jyuunomori 226]

Sato loses after getting KK, foot off the accelerator?

Followed by Chiyonokuni as well...

And Ura keeps on winning, by delicious Hikkake was well. He saw Harumafuji do it and decided to follow suit by being awesome. Tamaasuka lost twice to Ura two bashos in a row, both bouts were glorious.

Ura is now 7-2 and Sato and Chiyonokuni is now 8-1.

I was hoping Sato would have 15-0'd the whole Juryo but now it is inevitable that Ura wins the whole thing.

Edit:

To note Asabenkei is having the best basho of his life.

Edited May 16, 2016 by Jyuunomori

[Asashosakari 18,657]

...it is inevitable that Ura wins the whole thing.

Please. He has faced all of three KK-trending rikishi so far, none of them ranked higher than J11.

[robnplunder 974]

Talking seriously now, I don't understand the extra shove back to the Dohyo as well, but that was not a henka. People are not expecting to see that kind of sumo from Him and you have to be prepared to get this kind of treatment when you are the top yokozuna and as people said here before "international sumo embassador". His position gives him some privilege but he must think about what his actions means for the sport, and of course, for the fans. I don't get it why he likes so badly to be in the wrong spotlights. He always seems to find something uncanny to people discuss about besides his good techniques and records. The guy just beated the 800 wins mark in the makuuchi division and now people will talk about this basho as the one he did that unnecessary extra shoves. Man, is hard to be him, and get him. One think i can say, he still one of most interesting Rikishis to follow, even with all this bad reputation.

He's a foreigner making big money in Japan, playing Japan's traditional sport. He owes his fame and wealth to Sumo and Japan. I'd expect him to show more respect to the sport and his competitors. But that's not the case. I've only been watching basho about a year and saw too many Hakhuho's extra pushes, the one against Ichinojo was way over the top. Perhaps, being the best ever sumo wrestler made him think he is above everyone. I'd love to see him retire.

[Jyuunomori 226]

...it is inevitable that Ura wins the whole thing.

Please. He has faced all of three KK-trending rikishi so far, none of them ranked higher than J11.

I thought Ura would finish 8-7 this basho, I really did. But I keep forgetting that he is Ura which means he is awesome and he usually surpasses everything I think he will do. So I try to raise my standard to him winning a Yusho. Last basho I thought Tamaasuka would squish him but got played instead.

Sato & Chiyonokuni are only opposition I see here for Ura. Asabenkei is doing great but he is known to falter. Either Sato & Chiyonokuni will knock one another out of the race. And Chiyonokuni is going to be beaten by Ura if they meet. Ura wins the Yusho 12-3. Or Sato will go 14-1.

Edited May 16, 2016 by Jyuunomori

[inhashi 2,363]

Exciting and tense moments during Ishiura vs Satoyama

A brief tweet clip of the match

[kuroimori 1,634]

I keep thinking that Tochiozan forgot to get his onsen bath towel off of his shoulder before stepping on the dohyo...

[SkinnySumo 32]

Terunofuji Makekoshi it seems... No way is he going 8-7 this basho

[Mihasan 13]

He was 10-0 last basho.

Nine in a row, when was the last time Kise started this hot?

[d_golem 213]

In the office now. Bye bye NHK Premium full makuuchi coverage. Looks like sumoforum.net is spared from my ugly newbie match commentaries today...

[inhashi 2,363]

Ikioi looked absolutely terrified. Taking deep breaths under Hakuho's stare he could have passed out before that knockout.

[Jyuunomori 226]

Hakuho decided to smack the heck out of Ikioi.

And Okinoumi came in looking like a Yokozuna and destroyed Harumafuji. What is happening?

[d_golem 213]

Ikioi looked absolutely terrified. Taking deep breaths under Hakuho's stare he could have passed out before that knockout.

Ikioi is a nice guy, plain and simple. He's the Yang to Hakuho's Yin.

[rzombie1988 157]

Quick thoughts:

- Hakuho with the KO today. Stay classy.

- Kisenosato is teasing us again. 9-0...He's going to need some outside help with an upset if he wants to win this. He is looking good, just Hakuho's going to hit him hard and win. Credit to Kise for having two bashos in a row with very strong first weeks.

- I thought for sure Ichinojo would henka Koto today instead he tried to beat him at his own game and failed. He's definitely MK minus a miracle.

- Kaisei Komusubi KK? Looking so. He's not doing anything great or spectacular but he's doing his own sumo well.

- Terunofuji needs to give it up for this basho. He's going to get unlucky and double MK due to injuries and get demoted.

- Not a good loss for Harumafuji as it takes him out of the running. No way is Hakuho losing 2.

- I was thinking Tochinoshin had a good shot at 10 or more wins, then he loses today.

[luispereira 383]

man, i love Ikioi...but man...I just burst laughing with that elbow to the face!! geezz !!

[Tenshinhan 1,595]

People who laughed in this situation deserve Hakuhos elbow in their own face.

[luispereira 383]

People who laughed in this situation deserve Hakuhos elbow in their own face.

really? wtf... It was only my "wow" reaction..jesus....I don't want to get hakuho's elbow in my face aa

[WAKATAKE 2,614]

Clearly the winner of the Kise/Hakuho match is going to win the yusho.

[Senkoho 552]

He's doing all this on purpose.