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Basho Talk - Haru Basho 2016 +++ Spoiler Alert! +++

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808morgan    743

So the Owl is Fukuroyuki?

d573668d.jpg20160316_1922897.jpg

Edited by 808morgan

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egparis18    585

I just feel taken like a complete fool. I wanted a good match today. I wanted to see the two best in the world go toe to toe and to see whose the strongest. I even got some people who don't usually watch sumo to check the basho out and I'm really not looking forward to having to explain to people who haven't seen much sumo about what was pulled today. This stuff is bad for sumo and everyone was a loser today.

I was expecting a mighty dust-up too, and felt disappointed, and I've disliked Hakuho ever since he shoved Ichinojo in the face (to cite just one reason), but those tears looked sincere to me. I was watching live on UBS, couldn't understand a word, or even well hear what was being said, but the sight of his face had me blowing my nose in sympathy.

Let's not forget how much he's done to make sumo popular, and that popular sports stay 'alive'. I have students here in Paris who know absolutely nothing about sumo, but they've heard of Hakuho.

Another thing - a henka just looks like a clever move to a lot of people. It's legal.

Edited by egparis18
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CT3*    278

I feel like everyone should get a pass on henka's on Koto. This guy doesn't learn AT ALL. I felt bad for him initially but this should not be happening consistently to an Ozeki. I seriously have no idea how he is an Ozeki or how he got a title. None.

How long have you been watching sumo?

Regularly since 2013. It's been 20 tournaments. Tournaments with 10 or more wins since then:

Haumafuji - 13

Hakuho - 19 out of 20

Kakuryu - 12

Kotoshogiku - 5

Kisenosato - 14

Goeido - 5

Terunofuji - 5 in Makuuchi, 4 in Sekiwake or Ozeki

Not super impressive. He also never racked up the 33 wins in 3 bashos since his initial promotion, but he's gotten 30 wins through 3 bashos twice.

How many times you gonna edit that post, champ? Your initial response was all I really needed to know. Thanks!

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rzombie1988    143

I feel like everyone should get a pass on henka's on Koto. This guy doesn't learn AT ALL. I felt bad for him initially but this should not be happening consistently to an Ozeki. I seriously have no idea how he is an Ozeki or how he got a title. None.

How long have you been watching sumo?
Regularly since 2013. It's been 20 tournaments. Tournaments with 10 or more wins since then:

Haumafuji - 13

Hakuho - 19 out of 20

Kakuryu - 12

Kotoshogiku - 5

Kisenosato - 14

Goeido - 5

Terunofuji - 5 in Makuuchi, 4 in Sekiwake or Ozeki

Not super impressive. He also never racked up the 33 wins in 3 bashos since his initial promotion, but he's gotten 30 wins through 3 bashos twice.

How many times you gonna edit that post, champ? Your initial response was all I really needed to know. Thanks!

As many times as I please.

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Dwale    204

Man, if I'd paid money to see that, I would have been ticked off.

That aside, I had a lot of fun this basho. I was pleased to see Goeido show up as an ozeki, and I'm curious to see how Kotoyuki's going to fare in the sanyaku. Super proud of Osunaarashi, can't wait to see him back in makuuchi where he belongs.

Mitakeumi and Shoudai both look hungry, want to see more of them.

Kisenosato will have to be content with "best eyebrows" again.

Despite going MK, I really found myself cheering for Satoyama, and he showed some good technique.

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dingo    346

Ok here it is. Full video of the yusho-cup presentation in HD.

Anybody kind enough to roughly translate the interview for a non-Japanese speaker? Just the gist of what being asked and what did Hak said would be fine. Watched the whole thing trying to make out what they're saying but there's only so much you can get from body language alone. Cheers.

Edit : Had a look at the replay of the bout, both slow mo and real time back and forth. First viewing in real time it looks totally a henka and totally pre-meditated. On slow-mo, not so sure. Hak started out going straight, moved his body upwards, right hand outstretched to distract Ama. Ama got his tachi-ai so fast and he looked to be expecting a clash of bodies instead of a palm to the face, that his face made contact with Hak's right hand, blinding him. Now the split second Hak's fingers touched Ama's face, only then his whole body changed momentum to the side : his right leg pushed off the the left, his left leg pivoted around, body swiveled, and left arm moved to side of Ama's face.

Now the question is does Hak's supremely trained body and acutely honed reflexes can actually react that fast to the opportunity that presented itself the moment Ama got blinded by his right hand? It could well be that, and the resultant henka was, as he said, unintentional and his reflex told the muscles on his body to move in the most efficient and least effort way to win the bout. Or it may just be me grossly over-analysing things :-S

Here's a quick and dirty translation, I didn't catch everything he said so maybe someone will want to add something ---

Q: Congratulations Hakuho-zeki for your 36th yusho -- A: Thank you.
Q: How does it feel to lift the Emperor's trophy again after 4 basho -- A: It's been 8 long months, the yusho was getting farther away (? not entirely sure),
(Hakuho tears up.)
Q: That 8 months also involved your first kyujo as a yokozuna and (something I didn't catch), these must've caused you distress -- A: Well, up to now... (fights tears, applause from audience)
Q: This basho there were other ozeki chasing spiritedly for their first yusho, were they strong opponents? -- A: The local ozeki Goeido as well as Kisenosato were pulling me (figuratively) so I could also show good sumo.
Q: Saying that, you lost on the first day, how did you turn it around? -- A: This loss was good medicine for me. I did good sumo from the second day onwards, but didn't think it would end with a henka on senshuraku. I deeply apologize.
Q: Thinking that a win today would mean getting the yusho, did you aim for that tachiai...? A: (silent, muttering) I'm very sorry.
Q: There's both warm applause as well as stern words from the fans here in Osaka, but you reached the 36th yusho. How do you feel? -- A: (Hakuho tears up)
Q: However, it's your first yusho in 4 basho, your 36th yusho. Isn't it ok to be proud of yourself? -- A: With this I'm equal with my father...
Q: You've reached your goal of getting the same amount of yusho as your father, 6 of his vs 36 of yours. -- A: Thank you for your support. That's it/I'm finished (ijou desu is kinda hard to translate properly, it signifies that one has finished talking but is not rude at all as the english translation might suggest. Basically he finished the interview on his terms)
Q: I would like a word about your next goal... (Hakuho leaves)
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rhyen    936

That aside, I had a lot of fun this basho. I was pleased to see Goeido show up as an ozeki, and I'm curious to see how Kotoyuki's going to fare in the sanyaku. Super proud of Osunaarashi, can't wait to see him back in makuuchi where he belongs.

Kotoyuki will be his usual self barring injury/shimpan penalizing his tachiai "mistiming/two-timing" (rarely see mattas from him compared to last year).

He will probably dominate all the rikishis ranked below him (except for an Osunaarashi kachiage), since he has faced 5-6 of them this basho.

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Kintamayama    21,920

Hakkaku said he thinks it rather was an inashi than a henka from Hakuho, and that he reacted to the opponent.

http://www.nikkansports.com/battle/sumo/news/1622869.html

Mr. Hakkaku knows much much more than we can possibly know.....

Yeah, especially since Hakuhou himself used the H word specifically during his interview, admitting it .. He's saying it-I actually believe him. Hakkaku likes to overlook stuff. He doesn't like the confrontation I guess. Isegahama, OTOH was more blatant. See it all in AMPLE.

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Ack!    88

Ok here it is. Full video of the yusho-cup presentation in HD.

Anybody kind enough to roughly translate the interview for a non-Japanese speaker? Just the gist of what being asked and what did Hak said would be fine. Watched the whole thing trying to make out what they're saying but there's only so much you can get from body language alone. Cheers.

The English commentators indicated a lot of the emotion expressed by Hakuho was likely due to him roughly equally matching his father's record, which was one of his stated goals. His father won 6 annual Mongolian wrestling championships and is a national hero. By winning 36 yushos (6 tournaments per year times 6 years), Hakuho has made an equivalent achievement. Hakuho was so choked up, he couldn't answer the questions. He started, but then stopped multiple times.

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CT3*    278

Hakuho has gone several basho without lifting the Cup, and now he has matched his father's achievement. His show of emotion is quite understandable.

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Dapeng    123

Was the crowd shouting insults or encouragement in the interview? Before he started crying.

shouting insults

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d_golem    203

Here's a quick and dirty translation, I didn't catch everything he said so maybe someone will want to add something ---

Q: Congratulations Hakuho-zeki for your 36th yusho -- A: Thank you.

Q: How does it feel to lift the Emperor's trophy again after 4 basho -- A: It's been 8 long months, the yusho was getting farther away (? not entirely sure),

(Hakuho tears up.)

Q: That 8 months also involved your first kyujo as a yokozuna and (something I didn't catch), these must've caused you distress -- A: Well, up to now... (fights tears, applause from audience)

Q: This basho there were other ozeki chasing spiritedly for their first yusho, were they strong opponents? -- A: The local ozeki Goeido as well as Kisenosato were pulling me (figuratively) so I could also show good sumo.

Q: Saying that, you lost on the first day, how did you turn it around? -- A: This loss was good medicine for me. I did good sumo from the second day onwards, but didn't think it would end with a henka on senshuraku. I deeply apologize.

Q: Thinking that a win today would mean getting the yusho, did you aim for that tachiai...? A: (silent, muttering) I'm very sorry.

Q: There's both warm applause as well as stern words from the fans here in Osaka, but you reached the 36th yusho. How do you feel? -- A: (Hakuho tears up)

Q: However, it's your first yusho in 4 basho, your 36th yusho. Isn't it ok to be proud of yourself? -- A: With this I'm equal with my father...

Q: You've reached your goal of getting the same amount of yusho as your father, 6 of his vs 36 of yours. -- A: Thank you for your support. That's it/I'm finished (ijou desu is kinda hard to translate properly, it signifies that one has finished talking but is not rude at all as the english translation might suggest. Basically he finished the interview on his terms)

Q: I would like a word about your next goal... (Hakuho leaves)

Cheers for that.

So Hak really didn't say much during the interview huh? Guess we'll never know the whole story.

Understandable that the crowd reacted that way, most spectators were expecting a full-blooded yokozuna clash and their senses were fully prepared for that, and to have the fight gone the way it did was just a real bummer for the spectators both physically and psychologically. I think no one is aware about this more than Hak, and he was also struggling to come to terms with it personally, hence the loss of words during the interview.

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inhashi    2,172

Hakuho has stated in a press conference revealing his father's illness Alzheimer's for the emotional yusho interview. I'm sure thinking of his father among the profanities and discriminatory heckling of some stupid and ignorant jerks was a huge mental challenge to maintain his cool. And he just took it. And to patiently wait for an appropriate time for his explanation I hope that the a** of a heckler eats his/her words in regret.

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dingo    346

Was the crowd shouting insults or encouragement in the interview? Before he started crying.

shouting insults
It's not that one-sided. The majority were clearly encouraging him and applauding. There's always a few stupid people in an audience, and unfortunately the stupidest people also tend to be the loudest.

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Tsubame    229

So...will they announce a tsuna run for Kisenosato? 13-2 J in contention till the last day sounds like qualification to me.

No, never.

If he would have beaten Hakuho (the yusho winner), then a jun-yusho can be considered as part of a tsuna run.

But it didn't happen, so, no tsuna hype for Kisenosato.

Never? Already happened three years ago.

Apparently many have forgotten how the promotion hurdles for Kisenosato got lowered (because he failed twice?).

And of course he is on a tsuna run now again: the yusho and beating Hakuho for it is what Hakkaku and Isegahama want to see for that. http://www.nikkansports.com/battle/sumo/news/1622875.html

Yesterday Nikkan already headlined like that: http://www.nikkansports.com/battle/sumo/news/1622533.html

Goeido winning might rather not have put Goeido into a run - but a yusho in May with or without official yusho run would even in his case possibly have resulted in a surprising(ly similar to one ozeki) promotion anyway - and will for Kisenosato, even if from now on everybody should take care not to mention a run.

No, not forgotten, but with the recent promotion of Kakuryu to yokozuna with "only" one yusho, they set a new standard. And I cannot imaging that the YDC lowers the condition even further in such a short period of time.

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hamcornheinz    832

No, not forgotten, but with the recent promotion of Kakuryu to yokozuna with "only" one yusho, they set a new standard. And I cannot imaging that the YDC lowers the condition even further in such a short period of time.

Kakuryu had a 14-1 where he beat both yokozuna and only lost in a playoff, so its very different from a 13-2 jun-yusho where Kise lost to 2 Yokozuna...

Edited by hamcornheinz

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Asashosakari    10,850

No, not forgotten, but with the recent promotion of Kakuryu to yokozuna with "only" one yusho, they set a new standard. And I cannot imaging that the YDC lowers the condition even further in such a short period of time.

I really, really don't get the argument you're making. Three years ago, they already declared that Kisenosato was up for promotion after scoring a 13-2 jun-yusho in which he lost to the yusho winner, if he was to win the next yusho. That he didn't actually win that yusho makes no difference, unless you believe they were lying and they never intended to promote him at all. That's the only way your claim makes any sense and frankly, if that's what you believe, you just don't understand what's going on at all.
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Akinomaki    17,515

The YDC didn't mention a yokozuna run (or not) for Kisenosato, just: "He's top among those aiming for yokozuna, but it's hard without a yusho". Praising Hakuho for getting 36 yusho and criticizing him for the extra shoves: "An ugly sight for a dai-yokozuna".

Pleased about the good ozeki performances: "Kotoshogiku's yusho set them on fire, hasn't it?" - and to the failure of the man himself: "The one-sided loss against Hakuho shows he's still far from yokozuna."

http://www.sponichi.co.jp/sports/news/2016/03/28/kiji/K20160328012300600.html

http://www.nikkansports.com/battle/sumo/news/1623279.html

Edited by Akinomaki
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Pandaazuma    836

As expected...Hakuho's day-to-day is a non-story, inflated by only various obsessives. The last day was disappointing for the fans...but so are many days...and they sell out too...and they have equal value.

As for yusho prospects, if Kise wins next time convincingly, why not promote him? 13-2, 13-2+ sounds ok to me.

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Benevolance    1,190

The photo in the Japan Times is priceless. I love Harumafuji's big, goofy grin as he realizes he's been had and is charging off the dohyo under his own steam.

I also remember Harumafuji pulling basically the same thing on Hakuho a number of years ago, resulting in Hak ending up around row 3 of the crowd. Though, admittedly, Ama was only an ozeki at the time and nowhere near being a dai-yokozuna. I'd expected some sort of payback by Hak for that in next tournament, but alas. It was business as usual.

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rhyen    936

The photo in the Japan Times is priceless. I love Harumafuji's big, goofy grin as he realizes he's been had and is charging off the dohyo under his own steam.

I also remember Harumafuji pulling basically the same thing on Hakuho a number of years ago, resulting in Hak ending up around row 3 of the crowd. Though, admittedly, Ama was only an ozeki at the time and nowhere near being a dai-yokozuna. I'd expected some sort of payback by Hak for that in next tournament, but alas. It was business as usual.

Hakuho was probably waiting all those years for a moment like this, (not to mention how diligently he practiced that move since Harumafuji returned from kyujo)

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Katooshu    536

The photo in the Japan Times is priceless. I love Harumafuji's big, goofy grin as he realizes he's been had and is charging off the dohyo under his own steam.

I also remember Harumafuji pulling basically the same thing on Hakuho a number of years ago, resulting in Hak ending up around row 3 of the crowd. Though, admittedly, Ama was only an ozeki at the time and nowhere near being a dai-yokozuna. I'd expected some sort of payback by Hak for that in next tournament, but alas. It was business as usual.

Great photo (Laughing...)

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