Kashunowaka 300 Posted July 23, 2004 Another version of the new Banzuke can be found here as usual:Mr. Kou's Banzuke guess But be aware that he sometimes is very hard on high make-koshi (Kotoryu, Kotonowaka). Indeed, he manages to promote Kotooshu to M10 by dropping Kotoryu, Kotonowaka and in particular Tochisakae even further down than in Doitsuyama's guess. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Yoavoshimaru 0 Posted July 23, 2004 GTB threads are never my favorites, nor is the game itself, but sometimes it's fun to go back after the banzuke is published and compare predictions with reality. It's kind of like guessing where a leaf blowing in the wind will land. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Feginowaka 53 Posted July 23, 2004 (edited) For those of you who are intersted, here is my guess of the Makushita Banzuke for Aki Basho 2004: East Rank West Hochiyama 1 Kotokasuga Maikaze 2 Ishide Kaishozan 3 Ichinotani Wakakosho 4 Tamaasuka Chiyohakuho 5 Oikari Yoshiazuma 6 Kotokanyu Senshuyama 7 Toyonokuni Fujinoyama 8 Kyokunankai Masutsuyoshi 9 Ryuo Daimanazuru 10 Munakata Kaishoryu 11 Furuichi Daishoma 12 Tochinohana Fukkoyama 13 Fukuzono Dewanosato 14 Kotokuni Dairaido 15 Dewanofuji Kasugakuni 16 Kanbayashi Gokenzan 17 Kaonishiki Enatsukasa 18 Kirinowaka Raiko 19 Masatsukasa Sumiya 20 Ryuho Tochifudo 21 Hananosato Takamifuji 22 Koryu Asahibenten 23 Takakoyama Tochinoyama 24 Yotsuguruma Shindo 25 Hokutoiwa Kakuryu 26 Kitataiki Kyokutenzan 27 Komanofuji Maenowaka 28 Wakainami Tokinoboru 29 Tachigami Hakuba 30 Shimatora Hokutojo 31 Fujinokaze Ryuyo 32 Hoshihikari Daiyuchi 33 Akiyama Nakao 34 Kotoshiiba Wakasuruga 35 Kirinoumi Nodera 36 Daishochi Wakayuki 37 Rikiryu Oga 38 Kotoiwakuni Kimenryu 39 Mokonami Nishikikaze 40 Tooyama Shotenyu 41 Tamarikido Toshinyama 42 Tamamitsukuni Fujiryu 43 Nakanokuni Nakano 44 Yamasaki Asanotosa 45 Akinohana Tokusegawa 46 Yanagi Sensho 47 Tatsuyutaka Tenichi 48 Matsumidori Musashifuji 49 Tokinoyutaka Tochitenko 50 Asatoshi Musashiryu 51 Minaminoshima Kitamura 52 Natsubori Towanoyama 53 Azumao Kakuo 54 Futasegawa Daionji 55 Hanada Ashu 56 Hayasegawa Omusashi 57 Hoshikaze Ryukai 58 Asahimaru Shikinoumi 59 Daitenzan Wakagiyama 60 Yakigaya Edited July 23, 2004 by Feginowaka Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Doitsuyama 1,173 Posted July 23, 2004 For those of you who are intersted, here is my guess of the Makushita Banzuke for Aki Basho 2004:... Interesting, I should look at it when I have some time. At first sight it looks plausible (of course...) but I thought Kakuryu should go higher with 7-0, to about Ms20e. We'll see... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Asashosakari 18,646 Posted July 23, 2004 Toyonokuni also seems to be placed very low at Ms7w...I'm not aware of any Makushita yusho winner (with 7-0, naturally) in recent years who didn't go up to at least Ms6, even those who did it from Ms60Td, and Toyonokuni was ranked much higher than that in Nagoya. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Mark Buckton 1 Posted July 23, 2004 For those of you who are intersted, here is my guess of the Makushita Banzuke for Aki Basho 2004: You're missing Shibuya off the bottom :-D Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Zentoryu 154 Posted July 23, 2004 (edited) For those of you who are intersted, here is my guess of the Makushita Banzuke for Aki Basho 2004: You're missing Shibuya off the bottom :-/ Shibuya would have to be really lucky to make it to Makushita with a 4-3 from Sd13. He's more likely to end up at Sd1 or Sd2. He could sneak in, but it's not very likely. Edited July 23, 2004 by Zentoryu Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ryunokaze 0 Posted July 24, 2004 I have never understood this line, in this forum?... Doesn't the fun start after the Banzuke is posted?... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Feginowaka 53 Posted July 25, 2004 ... I thought Kakuryu should go higher with 7-0, to about Ms20e. We'll see... Theoretically I also had him at Ms20, but it was so crowded in those ranks, that I decided to place him behind some others, who were ranked higher than him. But I'm sure the Banzuke commitee did find a solution and placed him where he deserved to be placed, which is Ms20 or higher. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Feginowaka 53 Posted July 25, 2004 You're missing Shibuya off the bottom Shibuya would have to be really lucky to make it to Makushita with a 4-3 from Sd13. He's more likely to end up at Sd1 or Sd2. He could sneak in, but it's not very likely. There are more than 2 rikishi who would be promoted before Shibuya: Shibuya was Sd13e with 4-3 before him should be: Tamao was Sd11e with 4-3 Koriyama was Sd22w with 5-2 Umebayashi was Sd25w with 5-2 Daionami was Sd33e with 6-1 and maybe: Taika was Sd41w with 6-1 Goki was Sd45e with 6-1 Chiyonohana was Sd78e with 7-0 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Fujisan 530 Posted August 8, 2004 I wanna throw another name in for the Komusubi spot- Wev'e had Kokkai,Shimotori and Hakuho but what about Kotomitsuki-Remember he barely moved with 9-6 last time and the previous banzuke to that he retained his Komusubi spot with the same 7-8 record. I think Kokkai aswell but is Mickey that unlikely a prospect? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Kashunowaka 300 Posted August 8, 2004 I wanna throw another name in for the Komusubi spot-Wev'e had Kokkai,Shimotori and Hakuho but what about Kotomitsuki-Remember he barely moved with 9-6 last time and the previous banzuke to that he retained his Komusubi spot with the same 7-8 record. Kotomitsuki as komusubi west is theoretically possible. But I think he would only have a chance if there were a dearth of candidates for the available slots, and that doesn't seem to be the case this time. BTW, he didn't stay at komusubi with 7-8 earlier this year, he was demoted from sekiwake. And I doubt very much that the banzuke makers would compensate for bad banzuke luck in earlier basho. (Applauding...) Has anyone noticed any such tendencies before? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Fujisan 530 Posted August 8, 2004 Technically speaking there isn't anyone to fill the the second Komusubi since the three candidates w/l records take them to M1 not Komusubi Kashunowaka,thats why I mentioned Kotomitsuki whos w/l also should take him to M1. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Kashunowaka 300 Posted August 8, 2004 Technically speaking there isn't anyone to fill the the second Komusubi since the three candidates w/l records take them to M1 not Komusubi Kashunowaka,thats why I mentioned Kotomitsuki whos w/l also should take him to M1. Technically speaking that's a moot point, since rikishi have made it to komusubi with 8-7 from maegashira 5 lots of times in the past. (In a state of confusion...) Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Zeokage 0 Posted August 9, 2004 (edited) Since I've made my guess and won't be changing it (hopefully!) I'm a little worried seeing as I managed to have Kotooshu at M8W while everyone seemed to struggle to get him above M10 (going by reading this)... is there something I might have messed up on or not known about? Also, how likely would it be for Kotomitsuki to get M1W? EDIT: I tried something different, and Kotooshu turned up in M13W Edited August 10, 2004 by Zeokage Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Kaikitsune Makoto 203 Posted August 29, 2004 This is definitely the most difficult GTB ever that I have participated in. Would be interesting to see how the men in black man managed it this time. Complete mess! If only there would be further major problems with the amount of sanyaku, this would be perfect... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Kashunowaka 300 Posted August 30, 2004 You were right about Kotomitsuki Fujisan! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Taizeniki 0 Posted August 30, 2004 You were right about Kotomitsuki Fujisan! to quote '80's rocker toni basil: "Oh Mickey, you're so fine you're so fine you blow my mind, hey Mickey, hey Mickey!" :-) Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
QttP 0 Posted August 30, 2004 Kokkai won't be promoted to komusubi. Quite possible. You need a good teacher (maybe your father?) to tell you what constructive criticism is... Quite possible. You need a good teacher to tell you why a group of order 2P when P is prime can only be cyclic or dihedral. Daddy is a math teacher isn't he? Nice words and theory picked up from pater. Yet, as ever you leave your own reasoning unsupported by habitually ignoring questions regarding your own guesses. Perhaps a teacher would tell you that a reason unsupported is a reason unheard. Even in Russia! :-) Kokkai wasn't promoted to komusubi. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Mark Buckton 1 Posted August 30, 2004 Kokkai wasn't promoted to komusubi. A post you'd never have made had he been promoted. Still, leaving your initial post unreasoned cheapens it to the point of your prediction being mere luck. A guess. A stab in the dark that worked out and met its target. Not worth further comment really. :-) Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Fujisan 530 Posted August 31, 2004 You were right about Kotomitsuki Fujisan! (Bleh!) Shame no one listened to me eh? :-) Shame I didn't listen to myself eh? I would have managed even better than 5th place in GTB- I must admit at this point I'm still not sure how I finished that high but I haven't had chance to check against my picks yet. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
amgaa99 0 Posted September 1, 2004 Mr Doitsuma had made a lot of mistakes in his expected banzuke. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Doitsuyama 1,173 Posted September 1, 2004 Mr Doitsuma had made a lot of mistakes in his expected banzuke. Hehe, too bad you didn't put up a banzuke yourself. By the way, what is a mistake? As long as everyone agrees that multiple rikishi can be ranked pretty much arbitrarily (like Kotomitsuki / Shimotori / Kokkai / Hakuho this time and a lot more examples) I think no suggestion is really wrong. I rather tend to think that the Kyokai itself is leaning to be wrong sometimes. I mean, Hakuho below Iwakiyama and Tochinonada? Takamisakari up only a half rank? I don't think a higher promotion was unavoidable, so it just looks wrong. Those are the reasons I'm not too eager for the GTB game. I forgot to submit my try this basho but I don't mind. I think this banzuke would be 52 points there and shared 16th which looks ok for me. How about you, amgaa99? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Fujisan 530 Posted September 1, 2004 Mr Doitsuma had made a lot of mistakes in his expected banzuke. Hehe, too bad you didn't put up a banzuke yourself. By the way, what is a mistake? As long as everyone agrees that multiple rikishi can be ranked pretty much arbitrarily (like Kotomitsuki / Shimotori / Kokkai / Hakuho this time and a lot more examples) I think no suggestion is really wrong. Those are the reasons I'm not too eager for the GTB game. I forgot to submit my try this basho but I don't mind. I think this banzuke would be 52 points there and shared 16th which looks ok for me. How about you, amgaa99? Contrary to Mr Amgaa I wanna thank Doitsuyama for his help with my GTB entry- If I had stuck with my original picks from M12-M16 I wouldn't have got anywhere near the score I did in GTB but after seeing Doitsu's low placement of the Juryo promotees and seeing the logic behind it,I changed my picks slotted Aminishiki in the M16e slot(Slight difference frm Doitsuyama) and finished up correct from M12w-M17e. Thanks Doitsuyama your effort wasn't in vain! (In a state of confusion...) Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
QttP 0 Posted September 1, 2004 (edited) Kokkai wasn't promoted to komusubi. A post you'd never have made had he been promoted. The fact is that he hadn't. Edited September 1, 2004 by QttP Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
