Basho Talk - Hatsu Basho 2016 +++ Spoiler Alert! +++

[Jakusotsu 5,814]

So I suppose that it must be an urban myth that Japanese people don't steal. Otherwise why would they need to be able to lock their bikes?

It's the other way around: Japanese people don't steal bikes because they are locked.

[Doitsuyama 1,173]

So I suppose that it must be an urban myth that Japanese people don't steal. Otherwise why would they need to be able to lock their bikes?

It's the other way around: Japanese people don't steal bikes because they are locked.

No, it's the evil foreigners of course. They are getting too numerous, and something must be done against that, starting with locking bikes. :-O

[hamcornheinz 839]

In Philly they steal every part of the bike that isn't locked- your wheels, your handles, your basket if you have one. They just leave the body there, like a dismangled body. It is haunting to see.

[Benevolance 2,478]

Any bike left unsecured after the last train has gone is fair game.

[Akinomaki 39,782]

Kotoshogiku on the 21st next month will have a yusho parade in Matsudo-city, Chiba, where the heya is located.

The route isn't fixed yet, maybe the same as Kotooshu for his yusho Natsu 2008, with start at JR Matsudo station west entrance. Then with bad weather only 25 000 fans were there, this time a number in the 50 000s is likely.

http://www.sponichi.co.jp/sports/news/2016/01/27/kiji/K20160127011929910.html

[CT3* 331]

So I suppose that it must be an urban myth that Japanese people don't steal. Otherwise why would they need to be able to lock their bikes?

When I've stayed outside of downtown Tokyo, unlocked bicycles were a very common site. I even saw many unlocked bikes with packages or groceries in the basket. I've seen lots of unlocked bikes in Kobe and Kato-city as well. Same thing with the area around the Kokugikan. But when I stayed in Shinjuku, every bike had a lock.

One of (the many) things I love about Japan is how often I see small children going to school unaccompanied by adults. The place just feels very safe. And I've had friends who live there forget their laptop or lose their wallet on the subway and the items always get returned to Lost and Found. Every single time. And its nice to visit an onsen and not worry about getting your clothes stolen.

[Dapeng 232]

^The talks within the kyōkai have been surprisingly harsh in terms of Kotoshōgiku’s yokozuna run. IIRC both Isegahama oyakata and Hakkaku rijichō have said that it will depend on the contents of Kotoshōgiku’s sumō, rather than naming a win–loss target. Personally I think a 12–3 yūshō or a 13–2 dōten would be enough for promotion. (If I misused any terms please rectify me… wasn’t too sure.)

Because the NSK doesn't want to see him become the weakest yokozuna among the four and have to retire him after a year or two. The NSK guys know clearly Geek's real strength.

However, I wonder if the NSK can resist the pressure from the public's demanding of a Japan-born yokozuna.

On what basis or evidence do you make these claims?

Just look at Geek's last year's record (9, 8, 6, 8, 11 and 8 wins). He couldn't meet the minimal requirement (9-6) for an Ozeki ! At his current age of 31, do you believe he can improve? If Hakuho at 30 years' old is already going down slope, what about Geek?

8-7 every other basho is the minimal requirement for an Ozeki.

For promotion to Ozeki, a sanyaku rikishi needs average 11 wins in three consecutive basho. But once promoted, only a 8-7 every other basho is enough. Isn't it ridiculous?

[Dapeng 232]

Dapeng, I don't think you can make simplistic calls like that. Rikishi have different bodies and develop at different times. We have early bloomers and late bloomers for a variety of reasons. I mean...look at Yoshikaze, for example...and he'll be turning 34 in the Haru Basho. He's not winning through luck but incredible skill and spirit that he almost never showed when he was younger.

As far as I recall, Kotoshogiku has had injury problems on and off for quite a while. And as you may well know, most rikishi won't mention 'minor' injuries. With so many of the top guys seemingly crocked (Hakuho, Terunofuji, Goeido), on the decline (Kakuryu) or simple headcases (Kisenosato), there is no reason why, if he shows the sumo he did in Hatsu, that he can't do well and keep doing well for a while.

As for the NSK worrying about him being the weakest yokozuna and 'having to retire him', I doubt very much such thinking enters their minds. If a rikishi satisfies the promotion criteria, up he goes, and if he does well, he does well. If he doesn't, he retires. They don't give a damn either way - it's up to the rikishi in question. Concern about whether a rikishi will do well at the rank is simply not part of the equation.

And as for your question...can he improve? Well, what was this basho if not a massive improvement? He did the best sumo this tournament and deserved to win it. I don't think Goeido tried at all on the final day, but that's an element of sumo too. And he would have won anyway because Hakuho, who is clearly carrying injuries and looked pretty damned surly throughout, lost.

Go Giku. I doubt he'll get promoted...he'll lose just a few too many in the manner he lost to Toyonoshima. But again, I'll be cheering the lad on.

There was late bloomers, but very few. Chyonofuji was one of the few. But Geek is not Chyonofuji. That's why the NSK set a high bar of consecutive yusho for Geek, although the bar had been lowered for Kakuryu (actually was for Kise).

However, as I said before, because of the pressure from the public, 13 wins will ensure a promotion, and even 12 wins maybe OK.

Next basho by day 11, if Geek is better than 10-1, he has a very good chance to reach 13 wins.

I hope Geek to be promoted after next basho so everything can be back to normal.

[dingo 1,160]

Dapeng, I don't think you can make simplistic calls like that. Rikishi have different bodies and develop at different times. We have early bloomers and late bloomers for a variety of reasons. I mean...look at Yoshikaze, for example...and he'll be turning 34 in the Haru Basho. He's not winning through luck but incredible skill and spirit that he almost never showed when he was younger.

As far as I recall, Kotoshogiku has had injury problems on and off for quite a while. And as you may well know, most rikishi won't mention 'minor' injuries. With so many of the top guys seemingly crocked (Hakuho, Terunofuji, Goeido), on the decline (Kakuryu) or simple headcases (Kisenosato), there is no reason why, if he shows the sumo he did in Hatsu, that he can't do well and keep doing well for a while.

As for the NSK worrying about him being the weakest yokozuna and 'having to retire him', I doubt very much such thinking enters their minds. If a rikishi satisfies the promotion criteria, up he goes, and if he does well, he does well. If he doesn't, he retires. They don't give a damn either way - it's up to the rikishi in question. Concern about whether a rikishi will do well at the rank is simply not part of the equation.

And as for your question...can he improve? Well, what was this basho if not a massive improvement? He did the best sumo this tournament and deserved to win it. I don't think Goeido tried at all on the final day, but that's an element of sumo too. And he would have won anyway because Hakuho, who is clearly carrying injuries and looked pretty damned surly throughout, lost.

Go Giku. I doubt he'll get promoted...he'll lose just a few too many in the manner he lost to Toyonoshima. But again, I'll be cheering the lad on.

There was late bloomers, but very few. Chyonofuji was one of the few. But Geek is not Chyonofuji. That's why the NSK set a high bar of consecutive yusho for Geek, although the bar had been lowered for Kakuryu (actually was for Kise).

However, as I said before, because of the pressure from the public, 13 wins will ensure a promotion, and even 12 wins maybe OK.

Next basho by day 11, if Geek is better than 10-1, he has a very good chance to reach 13 wins.

I hope Geek to be promoted after next basho so everything can be back to normal.

It's not just the wins, I'm sure it's pretty clear that he has to get at least "yusho equivalent", which means losing in a yusho playoff.

[Nantonoyama 246]

It's not just the wins, I'm sure it's pretty clear that he has to get at least "yusho equivalent", which means losing in a yusho playoff.

I agree with dingo, the notion of yusho-doten has to be taken into account. I think a 13-2J will not be enough (Hakuho jurisprudence) while 12-3Y or 12-3D will. A 14-1J is more debatable, but a would go for the 'no'

[ScottyJoyJrBebe 97]

If my memory serves me, I believe 13-2 J or 14-1 J would have to come with "Being in contention till the final day" That was the reasoning behind Hakuho NOT being promoted in 2006. It has been bought up before how the standards were "lowered" for Kisenosato. I have a feeling 13 wins would be just enough to get him the Tsuna.

But that's just my opinion.

[Ack! 433]

He sometimes walks away from the dohjo as if he wants to walk away from sumo altogether. I hope not.

I have observed the same thing. He's not even trying sometimes.

[WAKATAKE 2,631]

It's not going to be just winning the yusho and how many wins. When they're talking about "content" and "quality" of the matches, that means they're going to be looking for who he beats and how he beats his opponents. For example, if someone is going to do henka a lot while trying to make a yusho run, that's not exactly yokozuna quality sumo. Struggling to and having to pull something out of your sleeve may or may not be another example of not so yokozuna type sumo if you're on the defensive so much. And most importantly, how do you fare against the yokozuna and ozeki?

[WAKATAKE 2,631]

Isegahama reports that Terunofuji is doing well after his surgery. He is able to walk around on his own without having to use a cane. While it is not determined when he will start keiko back up, Isegahama does feel that he will be ready for the Haru basho.

http://www.nikkansports.com/battle/sumo/news/1597413.html

Edited January 27, 2016 by WAKATAKE

[bettega 427]

Perhaps people's qualification of 'yokozuna like' has been greatly impacted by Hakuho's (rather outlier) dominance at the rank?

No doubt about it - in my case I follow sumo regularly since Nagoya 2011 so my image of a Yokozuna in fact is Hakuho. I watched a lot of older sumo in YouTube after that but "first impressions..."

[Jakusotsu 5,814]

Isegahama reports that Terunofuji is doing well after his surgery. He is able to walk around on his own without having to use a cane. While it is not determined when he will start keiko back up, Isegahama does feel that he will be ready for the Haru basho.

I wanted to "like" this if only I didn't think it's a bad idea to enter the basho recuperating from knee surgery and broken collar bone. Best he can hope for is doing a Goeido.

[Fay 1,677]

Isegahama reports that Terunofuji is doing well after his surgery. He is able to walk around on his own without having to use a cane. While it is not determined when he will start keiko back up, Isegahama does feel that he will be ready for the Haru basho.

I wanted to "like" this if only I didn't think it's a bad idea to enter the basho recuperating from knee surgery and broken collar bone. Best he can hope for is doing a Goeido.

That's what he told me and I don't think it's a good idea either. :(

[Kotogouryuu 126]

Isegahama reports that Terunofuji is doing well after his surgery. He is able to walk around on his own without having to use a cane. While it is not determined when he will start keiko back up, Isegahama does feel that he will be ready for the Haru basho.

Who is giving them these recovery time estimates? Doctor Who?

[dingo 1,160]

To be honest I'm a bit bewildered by all the yokozuna promotion talk for Kotoshogiku. I mean, yeah it's fun to speculate but it's Kotoshogiku who we are talking about. I personally think he won't be in yusho contention next basho...

... Kotoshogiku can prove me wrong of course ;)

[WAKATAKE 2,631]

Isegahama reports that Terunofuji is doing well after his surgery. He is able to walk around on his own without having to use a cane. While it is not determined when he will start keiko back up, Isegahama does feel that he will be ready for the Haru basho.

I wanted to "like" this if only I didn't think it's a bad idea to enter the basho recuperating from knee surgery and broken collar bone. Best he can hope for is doing a Goeido.

That's what he told me and I don't think it's a good idea either. :(

Trying to finish out the Aki basho last year was bad enough, he really should have sat out the Kyushu basho, or sat out this basho completely. At least he would have been able to go a whole basho with trying to recover.

[rhyen 1,809]

Isegahama reports that Terunofuji is doing well after his surgery. He is able to walk around on his own without having to use a cane. While it is not determined when he will start keiko back up, Isegahama does feel that he will be ready for the Haru basho.

I wanted to "like" this if only I didn't think it's a bad idea to enter the basho recuperating from knee surgery and broken collar bone. Best he can hope for is doing a Goeido.

That's what he told me and I don't think it's a good idea either. :(

Terunofuji or Isegahama?

[JariM 29]

^The talks within the kyōkai have been surprisingly harsh in terms of Kotoshōgiku’s yokozuna run. IIRC both Isegahama oyakata and Hakkaku rijichō have said that it will depend on the contents of Kotoshōgiku’s sumō, rather than naming a win–loss target. Personally I think a 12–3 yūshō or a 13–2 dōten would be enough for promotion. (If I misused any terms please rectify me… wasn’t too sure.)

Because the NSK doesn't want to see him become the weakest yokozuna among the four and have to retire him after a year or two. The NSK guys know clearly Geek's real strength.

However, I wonder if the NSK can resist the pressure from the public's demanding of a Japan-born yokozuna.

On what basis or evidence do you make these claims?

Just look at Geek's last year's record (9, 8, 6, 8, 11 and 8 wins). He couldn't meet the minimal requirement (9-6) for an Ozeki ! At his current age of 31, do you believe he can improve? If Hakuho at 30 years' old is already going down slope, what about Geek?

8-7 every other basho is the minimal requirement for an Ozeki.

For promotion to Ozeki, a sanyaku rikishi needs average 11 wins in three consecutive basho. But once promoted, only a 8-7 every other basho is enough. Isn't it ridiculous?

Not really to be honest. Ōzeki is the second highest rank and should not be a revolving door. It should bring some additional benefits to the rikishi who manage to be promoted. And a "weak" Ōzeki can maintain his rank by going MK-KK-MK-KK for only so long. Eventually he will end up being demoted.

[WAKATAKE 2,631]

^The talks within the kyōkai have been surprisingly harsh in terms of Kotoshōgiku’s yokozuna run. IIRC both Isegahama oyakata and Hakkaku rijichō have said that it will depend on the contents of Kotoshōgiku’s sumō, rather than naming a win–loss target. Personally I think a 12–3 yūshō or a 13–2 dōten would be enough for promotion. (If I misused any terms please rectify me… wasn’t too sure.)

Because the NSK doesn't want to see him become the weakest yokozuna among the four and have to retire him after a year or two. The NSK guys know clearly Geek's real strength.

However, I wonder if the NSK can resist the pressure from the public's demanding of a Japan-born yokozuna.

On what basis or evidence do you make these claims?

Just look at Geek's last year's record (9, 8, 6, 8, 11 and 8 wins). He couldn't meet the minimal requirement (9-6) for an Ozeki ! At his current age of 31, do you believe he can improve? If Hakuho at 30 years' old is already going down slope, what about Geek?

8-7 every other basho is the minimal requirement for an Ozeki.

For promotion to Ozeki, a sanyaku rikishi needs average 11 wins in three consecutive basho. But once promoted, only a 8-7 every other basho is enough. Isn't it ridiculous?

Not really to be honest. Ōzeki is the second highest rank and should not be a revolving door. It should bring some additional benefits to the rikishi who manage to be promoted. And a "weak" Ōzeki can maintain his rank by going MK-KK-MK-KK for only so long. Eventually he will end up being demoted.

Or retiring.

In 2009 as an ozeki Kaio became the first rikishi to score 8-7 in all six basho in a calendar year. The Kyokai didn't say anything about it, and he just kept on chugging. Also, Chiyotaikai holds the record for most kadoban as ozeki at 14, while Kaio is just behind him at 13. Yet the Kyokai didn't say anything to make them fall out or retire, the fact is that ozeki are not going to be under as much pressure as Yokozuna when it comes to maintaining their rank. Really simple, get your KK, you get to stay. You're not worthy of Yokozuna, but you help to keep things interesting in the basho. As there is a such thing as "great" Yokozuna, there is also a such as thing as "great" Ozeki. They achieved lots of things as Ozeki, for which they are remembered for. If an Ozeki is doing great but then gets promoted to Yokozuna, his career might falter. We've seen that happen quite a bit with certain Yokozuna who had great performances as Ozeki but then when they started to bloom it turned to be their downfall as they couldn't handle that pressure to maintain the Yokozuna quality of sumo and performance.

[krindel 671]

Not really to be honest. Ōzeki is the second highest rank and should not be a revolving door. It should bring some additional benefits to the rikishi who manage to be promoted. And a "weak" Ōzeki can maintain his rank by going MK-KK-MK-KK for only so long. Eventually he will end up being demoted.

Or retiring.

In 2009 as an ozeki Kaio became the first rikishi to score 8-7 in all six basho in a calendar year. The Kyokai didn't say anything about it, and he just kept on chugging. Also, Chiyotaikai holds the record for most kadoban as ozeki at 14, while Kaio is just behind him at 13. Yet the Kyokai didn't say anything to make them fall out or retire, the fact is that ozeki are not going to be under as much pressure as Yokozuna when it comes to maintaining their rank. Really simple, get your KK, you get to stay. You're not worthy of Yokozuna, but you help to keep things interesting in the basho. As there is a such thing as "great" Yokozuna, there is also a such as thing as "great" Ozeki. They achieved lots of things as Ozeki, for which they are remembered for. If an Ozeki is doing great but then gets promoted to Yokozuna, his career might falter. We've seen that happen quite a bit with certain Yokozuna who had great performances as Ozeki but then when they started to bloom it turned to be their downfall as they couldn't handle that pressure to maintain the Yokozuna quality of sumo and performance.

While I don't disagree with the general sentiment, and have no problem with Ozeki on the decline like Chiyotaikai or Kaio (or even Kotooshu) clinging to their rank (even including some respectful assistance from their friends from time to time), for me the big difference is that we are talking about rikishi with a long Ozeki-worthy career.

If the Kyokai is planning to promote more Goeidos who never have achieved any sort of Ozeki worthiness before achieving the rank, and never rise up to the rank after getting it, then the heavy rank protection becomes a problem.

[Akinomaki 39,782]

Kotoshogiku on the 21st next month will have a yusho parade in Matsudo-city, Chiba, where the heya is located.

The route isn't fixed yet, maybe the same as Kotooshu for his yusho Natsu 2008, with start at JR Matsudo station west entrance.

It will be that route - the convertible with Kotoshogiku will drive about 600m in about 20 min, start at 2p.m. JST.

http://www.yomiuri.co.jp/local/chiba/news/20160127-OYTNT50415.html

the yusho congratulations banner at the Matsudo city hall

Kotoshogiku will try to follow the path of his first shisho, yokozuna Kotozakura.

Back-to-back yusho with both 14-1 (to make it 4 then, his first at age 27) to become yokozuna at age 32 after 32 basho as ozeki, only 2 times 10 wins the year before that and 1-2-12, 8-7, 9-6 just before. Then only 6 finished basho as yokozuna (with 1 yusho and one jun-yusho) before retirement. The last Japanese yokozuna Wakanohana III had a better record as ozeki but even worse as yokozuna (5 finished basho with one of them makekoshi, 2 jun yusho).

http://www.sanspo.com/sports/news/20160128/sum16012805000002-n1.html