Basho Talk - Hatsu Basho 2016 +++ Spoiler Alert! +++

[Dapeng 232]

^The talks within the kyōkai have been surprisingly harsh in terms of Kotoshōgiku’s yokozuna run. IIRC both Isegahama oyakata and Hakkaku rijichō have said that it will depend on the contents of Kotoshōgiku’s sumō, rather than naming a win–loss target. Personally I think a 12–3 yūshō or a 13–2 dōten would be enough for promotion. (If I misused any terms please rectify me… wasn’t too sure.)

Because the NSK doesn't want to see him become the weakest yokozuna among the four and have to retire him after a year or two. The NSK guys know clearly Geek's real strength.

However, I wonder if the NSK can resist the pressure from the public's demanding of a Japan-born yokozuna.

On what basis or evidence do you make these claims?

Just look at Geek's last year's record (9, 8, 6, 8, 11 and 8 wins). He couldn't meet the minimal requirement (9-6) for an Ozeki ! At his current age of 31, do you believe he can improve? If Hakuho at 30 years' old is already going down slope, what about Geek?

[ronnie 221]

^The talks within the kyōkai have been surprisingly harsh in terms of Kotoshōgiku’s yokozuna run. IIRC both Isegahama oyakata and Hakkaku rijichō have said that it will depend on the contents of Kotoshōgiku’s sumō, rather than naming a win–loss target. Personally I think a 12–3 yūshō or a 13–2 dōten would be enough for promotion. (If I misused any terms please rectify me… wasn’t too sure.)

Because the NSK doesn't want to see him become the weakest yokozuna among the four and have to retire him after a year or two. The NSK guys know clearly Geek's real strength.

However, I wonder if the NSK can resist the pressure from the public's demanding of a Japan-born yokozuna.

On what basis or evidence do you make these claims?

Just look at Geek's last year's record (9, 8, 6, 8, 11 and 8 wins). He couldn't meet the minimal requirement (9-6) for an Ozeki ! At his current age of 31, do you believe he can improve? If Hakuho at 30 years' old is already going down slope, what about Geek?

8-7 every other basho is the minimal requirement for an Ozeki.

[Pandaazuma 1,310]

Dapeng, I don't think you can make simplistic calls like that. Rikishi have different bodies and develop at different times. We have early bloomers and late bloomers for a variety of reasons. I mean...look at Yoshikaze, for example...and he'll be turning 34 in the Haru Basho. He's not winning through luck but incredible skill and spirit that he almost never showed when he was younger.

As far as I recall, Kotoshogiku has had injury problems on and off for quite a while. And as you may well know, most rikishi won't mention 'minor' injuries. With so many of the top guys seemingly crocked (Hakuho, Terunofuji, Goeido), on the decline (Kakuryu) or simple headcases (Kisenosato), there is no reason why, if he shows the sumo he did in Hatsu, that he can't do well and keep doing well for a while.

As for the NSK worrying about him being the weakest yokozuna and 'having to retire him', I doubt very much such thinking enters their minds. If a rikishi satisfies the promotion criteria, up he goes, and if he does well, he does well. If he doesn't, he retires. They don't give a damn either way - it's up to the rikishi in question. Concern about whether a rikishi will do well at the rank is simply not part of the equation.

And as for your question...can he improve? Well, what was this basho if not a massive improvement? He did the best sumo this tournament and deserved to win it. I don't think Goeido tried at all on the final day, but that's an element of sumo too. And he would have won anyway because Hakuho, who is clearly carrying injuries and looked pretty damned surly throughout, lost.

Go Giku. I doubt he'll get promoted...he'll lose just a few too many in the manner he lost to Toyonoshima. But again, I'll be cheering the lad on.

[inhashi 2,363]

I wake up this morning to see a barefoot and wildly cheerful looking champion hurtling down a race track in a grandma bicycle. This satisfies my happiness quota for the next month :-D

[Akinomaki 39,497]

Another part of the project to make Kotoshogiku what he showed this basho was a LINE app group to share information by all the people supporting him: he, his wife (nutrition and massage), the physical trainer in charge of care, who is with him since Aki 2014, and for 6 months now a mental trainer for conditioning. They created the group before the basho, the ozeki at last started to use LINE.

http://www.nikkansports.com/battle/sumo/news/1596415.html

[Maguroyama 27]

Did anyone notice that Hakuho tied the all-time record for most wins as yokozuna? 670, along with Kitanoumi. Had he won on senshuraku he would have beaten it too. But will in March, of course. Kaio's record of makunouchi wins is also very close...

And we have 5 different yusho winners in the last 5 basho! Who would've thunk that a year ago? Last time it happened was in 2000, if my very quick check was correct.

[Benevolance 2,453]

If 9-6 is a minimum requirement for ozeki, then Kaio was quite possibly the worst ozeki ever.

[Harry 67]

Kaio is a good comparison actually. He had a yusho followed by a jun-yusho in 2004 but as we all know, he didn't get a promotion to yokozuna. If he had got a promotion he probably wouldn't have lasted long. What's better, what we got which was another 7 years of watching Kaio at ozeki? Or a year of seeing him at yokozuna? In hindsight of course I say "Ozeki!" because I enjoyed watching him for those extra 6 years. But today I actually feel it would be better if the Geek is promoted even if he only lasts a year or two. Now, almost 40 years old is quite old but retiring at 34 would still be a couple of years older than if the Geek only got a year so on second thought... maybe not? It's a tough one to consider.

[krindel 671]

As far as I recall, Kotoshogiku has had injury problems on and off for quite a while. And as you may well know, most rikishi won't mention 'minor' injuries. With so many of the top guys seemingly crocked (Hakuho, Terunofuji, Goeido), on the decline (Kakuryu) or simple headcases (Kisenosato), there is no reason why, if he shows the sumo he did in Hatsu, that he can't do well and keep doing well for a while.

crock2

krɒk/

informal

verb

past tense: crocked; past participle: crocked

British: injure (part of the body). "he crocked a shoulder in the test against South Africa"

North American: drunk. "his party guests were pretty crocked"

I wonder which version of "crocked" appllies here :P

[WAKATAKE 2,613]

Promotion, demotion, retirement is all a matter of how you do, when you do, and what you do. If Konishiki had made Yokozuna, I don't think he would have listed too long at the top rank with his knees, and then we probably wouldn't have gotten to see the Konishiki vs Mainoumi series. Kyokutenho had been thinking about retiring and whether to succeed the Oshima stable. Instead the very first basho he was in Tomozuna beya he won the yusho. Yoshikaze has had five consecutive KK basho. Aminishiki got his 8th kinboshi. And Giku has won his first yusho. It's all about timing and circumstances in any sport. This is no different.

[bettega 422]

Kotoshogiku get a well deserved Yusho but, honestly, he's not Yokozuna material. More a Swan Song - the peak os his career.

I give him Intai not long ago so maybe I'm biased, but I cheered for his victory and his Yusho was well deserved for his life in sumo, but I think that was it (unless, off course, another basho with a strange Hakuho and lots of kyujo and Kise out of this planet and and and)

[krindel 671]

I am also quite happy to see Kotoshogiku win one. He has never been one of my favorite rikishi, but one cannot help but admire both the decent way in which he has served the Ozeki rank all those years, and the way he fought through all his injuries last year to reach this point.

Of course I don't think he has the potential to become a Yokozuna, but if there is one rikishi that keeps proving my personal predictions wrong time and time again it is he, so who knows? :-)

By the way, I also want to point out that Kisenosato's chances of getting a Yusho and even the tsuna just increased by quite a large amount, now that a portrait depicting a Japanese rikishi is already being ordered for the Kokugikan.

[Benevolance 2,453]

Perhaps people's qualification of 'yokozuna like' has been greatly impacted by Hakuho's (rather outlier) dominance at the rank?

[WAKATAKE 2,613]

YDC were satisfied with Kotoshogiku's performance but it seems both them and Hakkaku are on the same page about Giku's possible yokozuna run. Both are saying that whether he gets recommended for and promoted will have to do with how he wins the yusho rather than setting a specific number for wins. YDC chairman Moriya also expressed his dissatisfaction with Hakuho's performance over the last two days.

http://www.nikkansports.com/battle/sumo/news/1596798.html

http://www.nikkansports.com/battle/sumo/news/1596622.html

[Morningstar 117]

Kotoshogiku's win this time was a perfect storm of his physical and mental readiness, and the lacking by others at the top of the same. Do I think he can do it again next Basho? No. But, I am unwilling to count him out at this point. Motivation, mental strength, and physical well being are the key to winning in any sport at the top most level.

I certainly hope he can keep this level of performance up, as it adds a lot of extra excitement to the sport. I am hoping that the next few basho's will be very exciting.

[808morgan 805]

Kotoshogiku will use all kinds of training for the preparations to his Yokozuna-run.

On Jan. 7th he did bike training with keirin professionals: his trainer announced that he'll intensify this next month, to strengthen his lower body and cardiopulmonary functions.

And cue Rocky training music....

[d_golem 213]

Kotoshogiku will use all kinds of training for the preparations to his Yokozuna-run.

On Jan. 7th he did bike training with keirin professionals: his trainer announced that he'll intensify this next month, to strengthen his lower body and cardiopulmonary functions.

Back when I was a teenager, I dented front wheel frame of a friend's bike by going over an incline, went airborne for a second, and landed heavily.

Out of fear, I haven't spoken to him ever again even until now, which is close to 20 years already. Pathetic really....he was a very good friend.

I hope Kotoshogiku used his own bike, but from the looks of it he borrowed it from a elderly lady. Be brave, Giku...

[egparis18 622]

Kotoyuki KK I jumped on the bandwagon from those VERY RESPECTFUL bows, and those BARKS. I am very excited for next basho, so we can ALL SEE HIM give Hakuho a BARK, that in itself will be worth the wait ;-)

Toyonoshima 12-3, is that a West Sekiwake coming?

Ichinojo 2-13 :'-( For the first time, I got genuinely MAD at him. I have been so supportive (Along with Elaine ;-) ) this whole time, but something IS WRONG. I pray that he can clear things up, hopefully East Maegashira 16 is a spot he can rebuild from

A very loud bark.

Toyonoshima.

I'm not mad at Ichinojo. He's got back problems. It's said that his father's ill. He's got much more to learn than it seemed at the start of his makuuchi career. He fights well more often than he wins, the first week especially, against hard oponents, and it seems to discourage him for the second week. He's lost his way, but he'll find it.

I wouldn't care if he lost a bout against Tweetie-Pie. I just want him to be happy. He sometimes walks away from the dohjo as if he wants to walk away from sumo altogether. I hope not.

[Ryoshishokunin 259]

The only problem with the mamachari is finding one suitable for 190cm tall people :(

(That said, giku could use some more air in the tyre..)

[Akinomaki 39,497]

I had one bike looking the same, there are men's types as well, bigger and able to support more weight.

The local bike shop had those, no problems also for taller persons - I'm not quite 190cm though (188.5 then, maybe smaller now) and less than half as heavy as Kotoshogiku - but KONISHIKI used to tell about a special bike of that type that he got that was able to support even heavier rikishi.

Edited January 27, 2016 by Akinomaki

[JariM 29]

Perhaps people's qualification of 'yokozuna like' has been greatly impacted by Hakuho's (rather outlier) dominance at the rank?

People simply forget that not every yokozuna be can like Hakuhō, Asashōryū, Takanohana or Chiyonofuji.

[krindel 671]

Perhaps people's qualification of 'yokozuna like' has been greatly impacted by Hakuho's (rather outlier) dominance at the rank?

People simply forget that not every yokozuna be can like Hakuhō, Asashōryū, Takanohana or Chiyonofuji.

No, not everyone can be a dai-yokozuna, but its generally better if they can scrape up a double-digit basho more than once a year, and feature in the Yusho discussion more than twice in an entire 12-year sekitori career. I don't think anyone can seriously argue that Kotoshogiku's career so far has been even remotely Yokozuna-worthy...

Lets not get carried away here... The guy had one excellent basho in a 26-basho Ozeki tenure. If he can follow it up with a similar one, he sure deserves to get the rank, but he'll need to really up his game to a whole different level from what he has shown over the last five years to do so.

[d_golem 213]

but from the looks of it he borrowed it from a elderly lady. Be brave, Giku...

Standard bike used here.

http://www.tokyobybike.com/2009/06/introducing-mamachari.html

Now that's a word I've never heard before. Google time!

[Naganoyama 5,806]

but from the looks of it he borrowed it from a elderly lady. Be brave, Giku...

Standard bike used here.

http://www.tokyobybike.com/2009/06/introducing-mamachari.html

So I suppose that it must be an urban myth that Japanese people don't steal. Otherwise why would they need to be able to lock their bikes?

[Naganoyama 5,806]

I am also quite happy to see Kotoshogiku win one. He has never been one of my favorite rikishi, but one cannot help but admire both the decent way in which he has served the Ozeki rank all those years, and the way he fought through all his injuries last year to reach this point.

Of course I don't think he has the potential to become a Yokozuna, but if there is one rikishi that keeps proving my personal predictions wrong time and time again it is he, so who knows? :-)

By the way, I also want to point out that Kisenosato's chances of getting a Yusho and even the tsuna just increased by quite a large amount, now that a portrait depicting a Japanese rikishi is already being ordered for the Kokugikan.

I also think that the removal of 10 tons of pressure from Kisenosato's shoulders could give him the lift he needs to take the next step.