Basho Talk - Hatsu Basho 2016 +++ Spoiler Alert! +++

[dingo 886]

Something odd to my eyes after the Harumafuji - Hakuho match was decided. After Hakuho was down Harumafuji stepped around to in front of him and reached toward Hakuho's chest area (can't tell where due to the camera angle) for a couple seconds before stepping away. Almost like he was making sure Hakuho was ok or helping him up or something. For that matter Hakuho went down so "softly" that it was almost as if, by holding on to the belt, Harumafuji was lowering him to the ground. Perhaps Hakuho is hurt. It just looked a little strange to me, and maybe someone else could give an opinion? The video timestamp is 1:23 - 1:28.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N8TU-VLpXUs

On the Japanese commentary they said that Hakuho looked to the side dyring the bout and was absentminded, not focused on the bout. The commentators guesaed that it's probably because the yusho was already decided by that bout.

[Doitsuyama 1,161]

All division winners are Japanese! Someone please tell me the last time that happened!

Okay everyone, after skimming through all the yusho winners up to some time back, I have finally found the answer to my own question.

The last basho where all six division winners were Japanese was Nagoya 2003. This was the fourth yusho won by former Ozeki Kaio.

http://sumodb.sumogames.de/Banzuke.aspx?b=200307#M

Hmm, I would have thought a statsy guy like you would be quite familiar with the Query tool of Sumo Reference. You can't see all stats with it but quite some. Your question was answered with a simple query, also arriving at Nagoya 2003 (and Nagoya 2001 before that).

[WAKATAKE 2,450]

All division winners are Japanese! Someone please tell me the last time that happened!

Okay everyone, after skimming through all the yusho winners up to some time back, I have finally found the answer to my own question.

The last basho where all six division winners were Japanese was Nagoya 2003. This was the fourth yusho won by former Ozeki Kaio.

http://sumodb.sumogames.de/Banzuke.aspx?b=200307#M

Hmm, I would have thought a statsy guy like you would be quite familiar with the Query tool of Sumo Reference. You can't see all stats with it but quite some. Your question was answered with a simple query, also arriving at Nagoya 2003 (and Nagoya 2001 before that).

Yeah my problem is I'm not used to the query function on SumoDB, so I've had some difficulty trying to use it for certain queries. The way I try to input stuff doesn't come out the way I want it to, but I know there's ways to do that. Hopefully as I use it more and figure out how to use it better I'll be able to get that like you do.

[grigorian 10]

On a different subject, Shodai has definitely gained himself a new fan in me. For a shin-nyuumaku, he's showing veteran level solid technique and skill. It's not some kind of flashy monster debut like Ichinojo where he was bowling people out, its calm, disciplined sumo that shows the potential to last longer and even develop into something better. I'm getting a vibe of him, at worst, becoming another Aminishiki, just a very capable technician who can hang around forever.

I´ve saw less sumo than I would like, but since I do, I´ve never saw the sukuinage Shodai performed against Kitataiki. I think He´s going to give us great bouts in futures bashos.

[Dapeng 231]

^The talks within the kyōkai have been surprisingly harsh in terms of Kotoshōgiku’s yokozuna run. IIRC both Isegahama oyakata and Hakkaku rijichō have said that it will depend on the contents of Kotoshōgiku’s sumō, rather than naming a win–loss target. Personally I think a 12–3 yūshō or a 13–2 dōten would be enough for promotion. (If I misused any terms please rectify me… wasn’t too sure.)

Because the NSK doesn't want to see him become the weakest yokozuna among the four and have to retire him after a year or two. The NSK guys know clearly Geek's real strength.

However, I wonder if the NSK can resist the pressure from the public's demanding of a Japan-born yokozuna.

[Masumasumasu 902]

http://youtu.be/R6DN_SbUHs4

[Pandaazuma 1,298]

^The talks within the kyōkai have been surprisingly harsh in terms of Kotoshōgiku’s yokozuna run. IIRC both Isegahama oyakata and Hakkaku rijichō have said that it will depend on the contents of Kotoshōgiku’s sumō, rather than naming a win–loss target. Personally I think a 12–3 yūshō or a 13–2 dōten would be enough for promotion. (If I misused any terms please rectify me… wasn’t too sure.)

Because the NSK doesn't want to see him become the weakest yokozuna among the four and have to retire him after a year or two. The NSK guys know clearly Geek's real strength.

However, I wonder if the NSK can resist the pressure from the public's demanding of a Japan-born yokozuna.

On what basis or evidence do you make these claims?

[Washuyama 610]

Congrats to Yoshikaze for holding onto Sekiwake rank. If he can get a KK in March, it'll be his first six-KK streak since he was in Makushita/Juryo.

[rzombie1988 157]

at his age, will they promote him if he wins the next basho(not that I think thats going to happen)?

If he wins the next tournament I think they would have no choice. If he finishes in a tie and losses in a playoff with a 14-1/13-2, I think he would get promoted judging by Kakuryu's promotion.

This is what I was afraid of. The new standard is now a win + a 2nd place finish. Anyone who gets it and doesn't get promoted only has to say "But Kakuryu...". IMO, Koto needs 3 strong tournaments in a row to show he is Yokozuna worthy since his wins for the last year have been 9, 8, 6, 8, 11 and 8. I'll be the first one to raise a stink considering Terunofuji got a 2nd + a title last year and didn't get it because he was Sekiwake.

I didn't see the tournament but if Hakuho is losing tournaments to Kotoshogiku, he's really dipped.

Edited January 25, 2016 by rzombie1988

[tenshioka 7]

I think my knowledge about sumo is lower than the most of you but i want to say my opinion. I want to see a born-japanese rikishi like yokozuna but they have to do it calmly. I think nobody is sure about the real performance of Kotoshogiku. 4 months ago he was fighting to keep his ozeki rank, now has really yokozuna level. Really i like him, he seems a big teddy allways smiling but he has much to prove. I think he needs at least 2 more basho with a good performance. Seem if he wins next basho he will be promoted and i think it will be a hasty decision. This was one of the poores basho for Hakuho that i could remember. Harumafuji wasn't strong enough like last basho. There are several conditions that make me doubt.

I would like to make a question (is probably you have talked about this a lot of times...), what do you think about younger japanese born rikishi? Is there a japanese rikishi with enough potencial to fight agains mongolian rikishi?

Excuse me for my english.

Edited January 25, 2016 by tenshioka

[Kishinoyama 557]

at his age, will they promote him if he wins the next basho(not that I think thats going to happen)?

If he wins the next tournament I think they would have no choice. If he finishes in a tie and losses in a playoff with a 14-1/13-2, I think he would get promoted judging by Kakuryu's promotion.

This is what I was afraid of. The new standard is now a win + a 2nd place finish. Anyone who gets it and doesn't get promoted only has to say "But Kakuryu...". IMO, Koto needs 3 strong tournaments in a row to show he is Yokozuna worthy since his wins for the last year have been 9, 8, 6, 8, 11 and 8. I'll be the first one to raise a stink considering Terunofuji got a 2nd + a title last year and didn't get it because he was Sekiwake.

I didn't see the tournament but if Hakuho is losing tournaments to Kotoshogiku, he's really dipped.

I don't think a second place finish will get it done for Kotoshogiku. I think for him to get promoted he would need to lose the tournament in a playoff. I think that the Kakuryu promotion was done in hopes that Kisenosato would come through with the needed results to get promoted. The fact that Kotoshogiku would be the first Japanese rikishi to have a chance to do it is a surprise to most everyone....

[ALAKTORN 346]

Yūshō + dōten (tied 1st, playoff loss) is what Kakuryū did, he didn’t get 2nd. I’m not certain but I think that’s always been the standard for a promotion to yokozuna.

[WAKATAKE 2,450]

Yūshō + dōten (tied 1st, playoff loss) is what Kakuryū did, he didn’t get 2nd. I’m not certain but I think that’s always been the standard for a promotion to yokozuna.

Standards most definitely have changed over time, but I think circumstances always plays a role too. I'm sure though that the NSK will want to make sure that he is capable of composing himself through his sumo on the dohyo, as a person off the dohyo I'm very sure they won't have any problems with it. Kakuryu most certainly isn't the first Yokozuna to only have one yusho during the three basho leading up to his promotion. Onokuni, Hokutoumi, Takanosato, and even greats like Kitanoumi and Wajima didn't win two in a row to make yokozuna. And we certainly know about the Futahaguro debacle that forced the NSK to require a yusho in there somewhere.

Here's a query I ran regarding ozeki who either had yusho, doten, jun-yusho or otherwise (somebody more experienced will probably be able to run a cleaner inquiry):

http://sumodb.sumogames.de/Query.aspx?show_form=0&show_sum=on&form1_basho_nr=2&form1_rank=ozeki&form1_y=on&form1_yd=on&form1_m=on&form2_rank=ozeki&form2_y=on&form2_yd=on&form2_m=on

[Yangnomazuma 68]

Yūshō + dōten (tied 1st, playoff loss) is what Kakuryū did, he didn’t get 2nd. I’m not certain but I think that’s always been the standard for a promotion to yokozuna.

Standards most definitely have changed over time, but I think circumstances always plays a role too. I'm sure though that the NSK will want to make sure that he is capable of composing himself through his sumo on the dohyo, as a person off the dohyo I'm very sure they won't have any problems with it. Kakuryu most certainly isn't the first Yokozuna to only have one yusho during the three basho leading up to his promotion. Onokuni, Hokutoumi, Takanosato, and even greats like Kitanoumi and Wajima didn't win two in a row to make yokozuna. And we certainly know about the Futahaguro debacle that forced the NSK to require a yusho in there somewhere.

Here's a query I ran regarding ozeki who either had yusho, doten, jun-yusho or otherwise (somebody more experienced will probably be able to run a cleaner inquiry):

http://sumodb.sumogames.de/Query.aspx?show_form=0&show_sum=on&form1_basho_nr=2&form1_rank=ozeki&form1_y=on&form1_yd=on&form1_m=on&form2_rank=ozeki&form2_y=on&form2_yd=on&form2_m=on

If you look at Ozeki who finished with Yusho/Yusho-Doten in two consecutive basho and were Ozeki the following basho, only three times since 1950, Wakanohana I, Takanohana, and Wakanohana II, has that happened.

http://sumodb.sumogames.de/Query.aspx?show_form=0&n_basho=3&show_sum=on&form1_rank=ozeki&form1_year=%3E1950&form1_y=on&form1_yd=on&form1_m=on&form2_rank=ozeki&form2_year=%3E1950&form2_y=on&form2_yd=on&form2_m=on&form3_rank=ozeki

I ran several queries and there seems to be a line in the 1987 time frame (shortly after Futahaguro...) that removes Jun-Yusho from the qualification standard in favor of the now oft-quoted "yusho or yusho-equivalent".

[Sumozumo 240]

Here's one with consecutive J, D, or Y for ozeki, and the 3rd bout result

http://sumodb.sumogames.de/Query.aspx?show_form=0&columns=3&rowcount=3&show_sum=on&form1_rank=ozeki&form1_y=on&form1_yd=on&form1_jy=on&form1_m=on&form2_rank=ozeki&form2_y=on&form2_yd=on&form2_jy=on&form2_m=on

Here's another with just consecutive doten or yusho.

http://sumodb.sumogames.de/Query.aspx?show_form=0&columns=3&rowcount=3&show_sum=on&form1_rank=ozeki&form1_y=on&form1_yd=on&form1_m=on&form2_rank=ozeki&form2_y=on&form2_yd=on&form2_m=on

The guys getting 'screwed' are Chiyonoyama, Wakanohana I, Wakanohana II, and Takanohana (man its like the Tochinoshin curse times 1000)

Edit: wow I got scooped! I'll leave this as evidence to my slow query skills...

Edited January 26, 2016 by Sumozumo

[Morty 1,442]

at his age, will they promote him if he wins the next basho(not that I think thats going to happen)?

If he wins the next tournament I think they would have no choice. If he finishes in a tie and losses in a playoff with a 14-1/13-2, I think he would get promoted judging by Kakuryu's promotion.

This is what I was afraid of. The new standard is now a win + a 2nd place finish. Anyone who gets it and doesn't get promoted only has to say "But Kakuryu...". IMO, Koto needs 3 strong tournaments in a row to show he is Yokozuna worthy since his wins for the last year have been 9, 8, 6, 8, 11 and 8. I'll be the first one to raise a stink considering Terunofuji got a 2nd + a title last year and didn't get it because he was Sekiwake.

I didn't see the tournament but if Hakuho is losing tournaments to Kotoshogiku, he's really dipped.

If you look at that list of results for the past year you also have to acknowledge he was fighting with serious injuries through most of that. This basho is the first time he has been fully fit for a while. His record at Ozeki hasn't been Yokozuna worthy, but much of it has been while carrying serious shoulder and other injuries

[hamcornheinz 839]

The press here are calling Kotoshogiku's big stretch before tachi-ai the KotoBauaa, as it supposedly resembles Ina Bauer's skating.

I would pay to see her do sumo..

[Pandaazuma 1,298]

Kim! She was fantastic. Loved her Bond routine at the Olympics!

Regarding Kotoshogiku, the Japanese media is predictably focusing on his missus just as much as his achievement.

[wuli 67]

The press here are calling Kotoshogiku's big stretch before tachi-ai the KotoBauaa, as it supposedly resembles Ina Bauer's skating.

I would pay to see her do sumo..

maybe pay some respect, instead, eh?

:-|

[Masumasumasu 902]

Kim! She was fantastic. Loved her Bond routine at the Olympics!

Regarding Kotoshogiku, the Japanese media is predictably focusing on his missus just as much as his achievement.

A supportive woman makes all the difference.

[Akinomaki 37,434]

Kotoshogiku will use all kinds of training for the preparations to his Yokozuna-run.
On Jan. 7th he did bike training with keirin professionals: his trainer announced that he'll intensify this next month, to strengthen his lower body and cardiopulmonary functions.

A highlight is a mountain walk: up Kobe's Mt. Rokko (931m) with the beautiful national park, end of February after entering Osaka.
http://www.sanspo.com/sports/news/20160126/sum16012605050003-n2.html
with his trainer for the last 6 months

Edited January 26, 2016 by Akinomaki

[lackmaker 417]

Looking at that back tyre, I'm feeling it's pain.

[hamcornheinz 839]

Looking at that back tyre, I'm feeling it's pain.

At least it wasn't thrown into the ocean.

[WAKATAKE 2,450]

Goeido's 4-11 record for Hatsu 2016 puts him at an ozeki record of 65-69, mirroring the losing record that Miyabiyama had through his ozeki tenure before eventually falling. Goeido needs a 10-5 record to once again have winning record (barely) as an ozeki.

http://sumodb.sumogames.de/Rikishi.aspx?r=6468

[ScottyJoyJrBebe 97]

Goeido's 4-11 record for Hatsu 2016 puts him at an ozeki record of 65-69, mirroring the losing record that Miyabiyama had through his ozeki tenure before eventually falling. Goeido needs a 10-5 record to once again have winning record (barely) as an ozeki.

http://sumodb.sumogames.de/Rikishi.aspx?r=6468

Ozekiwake Goeido might be turning into Sekiwake Goeido again, for the third time.