Basho Talk - Hatsu Basho 2016 +++ Spoiler Alert! +++

[Kuroyama 715]

wow, super surprised at Hakuho last match. I really...can't buy that he would actually throw the match, but that was just the most careless I've seen him, in a majorly important match at least. And he didn't even seem that bothered or the least bit surprised with the loss, which was also strange.

I am sure that Goeido will put up a decent fight tomorrow though, it's not over yet.

He seemed distracted. There wasn't even really a tachi-ai on his end; some gyoji might have even called a matta. I'm starting to wonder if he doesn't have a touch of that flu that's going around.

Seems like lately Hakuho has been protecting some nagging injury, he's been very weird even outside the Kisenosato match.

Or this. I wondered about it last basho too. Beyond physical problems, Hakuho has been injured so infrequently in his career that he may have mental issues with fighting injured too. Edited January 24, 2016 by Kuroyama

[Asashosakari 18,786]

Going back to something I said a few years ago - I wouldn't be surprised if after Hakuho's career ends, we find out that his elbows were giving him trouble a lot more often than he publicly let on, and that's why he'd have these strange tournaments from time to time where it looks like he's going all experimental for no good reason.

[Morty 1,480]

For everyone wanting to interpret this basho as one long string of predetermined actions, carefully executed to provide a Japanese yusho on the 10th anniversary of the last one, I leave this here:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Confirmation_bias.

[kumasama 28]

Who can explain any of the whacked-out stuff Hakuho has been pulling for the last few basho? Nobody asserts shenanigans as long as he still wins while doing it, why does a loss change that?

Seems like lately Hakuho has been protecting some nagging injury, he's been very weird even outside the Kisenosato match.

Or this. I wondered about it last basho too. Beyond physical problems, Hakuho has been injured so infrequently in his career that he may have mental issues with fighting injured too.

Going back to something I said a few years ago - I wouldn't be surprised if after Hakuho's career ends, we find out that his elbows were giving him trouble a lot more often than he publicly let on, and that's why he'd have these strange tournaments from time to time where it looks like he's going all experimental for no good reason.

Could his knee still be bothering him? He's been very shaky (by his standards) from the get-go this basho, and there were the losses on the last three days last time. Hopefully he'll return to form soon.

Hakuho has such a huge repertoire and the ability to come out on top even when things aren't going according to plan, so I'm sure he still has a lot of wins and some yushos in front of him even when he's not 100%. But I think this is a reminder that even the best will decline eventually.

[WAKATAKE 2,631]

The announcers on NHK seem to notice that Hakuho has the sleeve on his left elbow and he's had it for a while. Though he's never really seemed to say what it is. I have to agree that Hakuho may be more hurt than he has let on everybody. His tactics may or not confirm that.

[Kasutera 258]

I've said it before and I'll say it again, it is an amazing compliment to Hakuho and what he HAS accomplished that any time he loses ever, it arouses suspicions of yaocho. How would you like to be so good at your job that any time you make a mistake people think it's because someone secretly paid you to make that mistake? How good of a life would that be?

[Kasutera 258]

On a different subject, Shodai has definitely gained himself a new fan in me. For a shin-nyuumaku, he's showing veteran level solid technique and skill. It's not some kind of flashy monster debut like Ichinojo where he was bowling people out, its calm, disciplined sumo that shows the potential to last longer and even develop into something better. I'm getting a vibe of him, at worst, becoming another Aminishiki, just a very capable technician who can hang around forever.

[WAKATAKE 2,631]

Sansho list available here:

http://www.sumoforum.net/forums/index.php?showtopic=34980

[Dwale 419]

On the subject of Takarafuji's alleged neck, until we have medical confirmation (an x-ray would do), it's more sensible to trust the evidence of our senses and assume he doesn't have one.

[ALAKTORN 346]

The announcers on NHK seem to notice that Hakuho has the sleeve on his left elbow and he's had it for a while. Though he's never really seemed to say what it is. I have to agree that Hakuho may be more hurt than he has let on everybody. His tactics may or not confirm that.

I don’t buy these injury talks at all. If his left elbow is injured, why in the world would he try to keep Kisenosato’s tachiai at bay with his LEFT arm? That’s the best way to aggravate the injury. If his left elbow were hurt, the way to fight would be to go chest-to-chest at the tachiai, not grab the belt with the left arm, and get a grip to try to yorikiri/nage with the right arm.

Edit: Well maybe Hakuhō just went stupid at the tachiai, and if his elbow is injured, that explains how easily he was defeated. Kinda hard to believe he went stupid like that, though… the bout is especially strange after yesterday’s great belt fight against Kakuryū.

Edited January 24, 2016 by ALAKTORN

[WAKATAKE 2,631]

The announcers on NHK seem to notice that Hakuho has the sleeve on his left elbow and he's had it for a while. Though he's never really seemed to say what it is. I have to agree that Hakuho may be more hurt than he has let on everybody. His tactics may or not confirm that.

I don’t buy these injury talks at all. If his left elbow is injured, why in the world would he try to keep Kisenosato’s tachiai at bay with his LEFT arm? That’s the best way to aggravate the injury. If his left elbow were hurt, the way to fight would be to go chest-to-chest at the tachiai, not grab the belt with the left arm, and get a grip to try to yorikiri/nage with the right arm.

Edit: Well maybe Hakuhō just went stupid at the tachiai, and if his elbow is injured, that explains how easily he was defeated. Kinda hard to believe he went stupid like that, though… the bout is especially strange after yesterday’s great belt fight against Kakuryū.

Well the best way to look at what happened to Hakuho yesterday is that he was trying some funny business against Kise but ended up paying for it. Hakuho seems to mention though that he just didn't have a good tachiai according to some publications.

[WAKATAKE 2,631]

And Daieisho punches his ticket back to Makuuchi with his kachikoshi win today.

[apraxin 56]

Ugh, so after 10 years of following sumo (first tournament I watched was Haru 2006) all this continuing yaocho talk has made me finally register an account so I can put my two cents in.

I'm going to venture that the reason a lot of the forum regulars are sick of debating conspiracy theories is the same reason that I am: that they've been hearing variations on a theme for years upon years, and none of them come true. 'There's no way the kyoukai will let one/three/five/ten years go by without a Japanese yusho! There's no way they'll let Hakuho reach twenty/thirty/thirty five yusho! There's no way they'll accept another Mongolian yokozuna before promoting Kotomitsuki/Kisenosato/Kotoshogiku!'

Heck, when I first started reading English-speaking sumo fandom the conspiracy theories took it for granted that a Japanese yusho would definitely happen before 2011 (no way they'll let it get to the point there's no Japanese yusho portraits in the Kokugikan!) and that Hakuho would be forced to retire somewhere around twenty yusho (no way they'll let a second foreigner in a row surpass Takanohana!).

Then after close to a decade (in which none of this came true, in which an active yaocho ring of twenty-plus rikishi which the conspiracy theorists never suspected was exposed), we ended up with no Japanese yusho, no Japanese yokozuna, and Hakuho surpassing pretty much every record there is, it became 'It's not the kyoukai organizing the fixing,it's Hakuho and the Mongolian cabal!'

And now that a Japanese yusho is on the cards for the first time in a decade we're back to the kyoukai and/or the Japanese rikishi en masse organizing everything again! If they have this power to fix results at will, why have they waited ten whole years to exercise it? Why is Giku the beneficiary instead of Kise, who's pretty much agreed to be the golden boy of Japanese sumo? Why, instead of Hak and Giku both finishing 14-1 and Giku capping off the tournament with a dramatic and suspenseful playoff win that will draw in maximum media interest are we (probably, at time of writing) going to get Giku securing victory by bulldozing Goeido, who's been so hapless this tournament that I wouldn't put it past him to just slip and fall over on the tachi-ai?

Sorry for prolonging the argument, just needed to get that off my chest.

[rhyen 1,809]

And Seiro missed the bus.

[WAKATAKE 2,631]

Lower division yusho winners:

Juryo - Hidenoumi (11-4)

Makushita - Tochimaru (6-1)

Sandanme - Chiyonoumi (7-0)

Jonidan - Kaito (7-0)

Jonokuchi - Kotokamatani (7-0)

[inhashi 2,363]

pic of the above yusho winners

[kumoryu 88]

For everyone wanting to interpret this basho as one long string of predetermined actions, carefully executed to provide a Japanese yusho on the 10th anniversary of the last one, I leave this here:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Confirmation_bias.

But wouldn't your link be just as appropriate if addressed to "everyone refusing to interpret this basho as ..."

Personally, I don't think "everything" is scripted, certainly not in the way ST outlines; but I'm happy to take on board the idea that "some things" are scripted; it's not an either/or situation, there can be nuances. The key thing for me is that this has been a fun basho; I won't ask for more.

[Benevolance 2,478]

Oh, amuru. Even ugly sweater guy saw that henka coming, and he was barely watching.

[WAKATAKE 2,631]

Shodai beats Gagamaru to earn the kanto-sho, breaking the record for fastest sansho winner at 12 basho (excluding makeshita tsukedashi).

[hamcornheinz 839]

that was very strange.

[WAKATAKE 2,631]

Yoshikaze makes kachikoshi! So three sanyaku slots are open for next basho.

[WAKATAKE 2,631]

Unfortunate that Toyonoshima lost like that, looks like he was hurting with that leg from yesterday.

[hamcornheinz 839]

WOW! WOW! WOW！

[WAKATAKE 2,631]

KOTOSHOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOGIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIKUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUU!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Masumasumasu 902]

Kotoshogiku's father ran out of the auditorium in tears!