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Fukurou

Hatsu 2016 Rikishi Status - Day 15 MIA

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"So he'll be in Makushita or Sandanme- we've got to get his body back to a place where he can do sumo..Next time he appears on the dohyo, he will not be in this situation!!" said Oitekaze Oyakata today, hinting at possible surgery on that knee for Endou..

Edited by Kintamayama
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They had that policy in place but apparently too many rikishi were abusing the system or were not as injured as they said they were. But the policy if I remember correctly wasn't in place during the 50s-70s, so if rikishi were managing to get by without back then, why not now. It's unfortunate when injuries occur, but then there are these rikishi who think they can get by if they take a few weeks off instead of taking the recommended two months like the doctor tells them. Prime examples of trying to gambarize are obviously Terunofuji and Endo. But look at Tochinoshin, he took his time off, took a hit on the banzuke, and yet half a year off provided the time he needed to heal. Plus he now owns the record for lowest rank return to sanyaku (Makushita 55).

Taking the time off to get your injuries addressed properly doesn't always work though. Takanohana missed 7 tournaments when he went to France for his knee surgery back in the early 2000s. He didn't lose rank when he finally came back (Yokozuna, you know), but they did tell him he had to compete or retire. He competed and did well - for 1 basho. Then he hurt his knee again, missing another tournament, came back, got hurt again and retired.

Still, I wish the system would allow the rikishi to get proper attention. Those injury pronouncements that get made are ridiculous (torn ACL - 1 week rest.... hah!)

I remember that basho quite well. Takanohana did exactly what Terunofuji did. He decided to compete because he didn't want to let the fans down and the yusho was within reach. So he competed instead of withdrawing. He won the yusho,

Takanohana did not win a yusho after any basho he was kyujo, as can be easily checked. He did get 12 wins after a year off though, which was impressive. If you're talking about some other time he was injured and didn't take any time off, well, I wouldn't have any idea how to determine that information.

Takanohana suffered an injury on day 14 of the Natsu 2001 in a loss to Musoyama. At that point he was 13-1 while Musashimaru was trailing at 12-2. If Takanohana had ended up withdrawing on the last day, Musashimaru would have won the yusho by default. Because Takanohana decided to go for it and finish out the basho, he lost to Musashimaru in the first match but beat him in the playoff. However that ended up messing his knee so bad, which is what required him to have the surgery done. Like I said, had he not competed, he might have had a longer career than he did, and the knee might have healed properly.

http://sumodb.sumogames.de/Rikishi_basho.aspx?r=2&b=200105

That wasn't after he went to france for surgery. That was some other time.

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I think everybody is not on the same page. What I've been saying is that had Takanohana withdrawn instead of going out and winning his last yusho, he might have prolonged his career. Instead he killed it. Terunofuji went and tried to do the same thing when he injured his knee back in September. Now he's going to be kadoban next basho because he decided instead of taking a basho off and being fully recovered, he competed and not only aggravated his knee injury but has now broken his collarbone. Endo never fully recovered from his knee injury and now will be dropping back to juryo, with possible knee surgery that will knock him out for at least two if not three basho which will drop him down to Makushita, or Sandanme. Now back to Tochinoshin. He took the time off, sure looks better than he was, and took less than a year to get back to makuuchi. Sometimes waiting for something to heal is better than being stubborn and only making it worse for yourself. And yes, injuries may not fully heal and sometimes that is what life throws at you. I know because I was a potential qualifier for nationals in high school wrestling, but had to take a year off due to injury and never reached my full potential because I ran out of time. These guys though still have some time because they are still somewhat young.

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At that point Takanohana had gone through numerous ailments and was clearly declining. Had he opt not to go into senshuraku with two chances to win, the basho would have finished with an incredible dud and he might very well just have ended with 21. Now then that vincing, remarkably emotional posture and facial expression after the ketteisen is a lasting memory in a great career otherwise without much flair. He was clearly badly injured going into day 15, what further damage was done, who knows but he must have felt that was likely the last hooray.


As for these other people, someone like Endo would never get to same heights, kensho and popularity as he has been after a long time off, Maybe it was calculated on his part to try to ride the wave a bit longer. Who knows if he even wants to duke it out for a decade. Most rikishi carry some injuries. Terunofuji on the other hand sure seems like someone who should not have competed as of late.

Edited by Ragebaton
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I think everybody is not on the same page. What I've been saying is that had Takanohana withdrawn instead of going out and winning his last yusho, he might have prolonged his career. Instead he killed it. Terunofuji went and tried to do the same thing when he injured his knee back in September. Now he's going to be kadoban next basho because he decided instead of taking a basho off and being fully recovered, he competed and not only aggravated his knee injury but has now broken his collarbone. Endo never fully recovered from his knee injury and now will be dropping back to juryo, with possible knee surgery that will knock him out for at least two if not three basho which will drop him down to Makushita, or Sandanme. Now back to Tochinoshin. He took the time off, sure looks better than he was, and took less than a year to get back to makuuchi. Sometimes waiting for something to heal is better than being stubborn and only making it worse for yourself. And yes, injuries may not fully heal and sometimes that is what life throws at you. I know because I was a potential qualifier for nationals in high school wrestling, but had to take a year off due to injury and never reached my full potential because I ran out of time. These guys though still have some time because they are still somewhat young.

Fukurou was talking about a different basho than you were, and you replied to his comment.

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"So he'll be in Makushita or Sandanme- we've got to get his body back to a place where he can do sumo..Next time he appears on the dohyo, he will not be in this situation!!" said Oitekaze Oyakata today, hinting at possible surgery on that knee for Endou..

The surgery he should have had months ago.... Assuming that he actually will have the surgery. That is a big assumption. I'm not an Endo fan but I feel bad for him. Oitekaze Oyakata has really made this situation worse.

I fear the same thing is happening with Terunofuji. Forget about Yokozuna for now. The way things are going he will have a hard time staying an Ozeki. :-(

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Teru may be better off just taking Haru off and starting over. If he comes back in Haru and he's not 100%, he could end up being make-koshi or withdrawing from the basho anyway.

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Teru may be better off just taking Haru off and starting over. If he comes back in Haru and he's not 100%, he could end up being make-koshi or withdrawing from the basho anyway.

So you would have him lose his ozeki rank? and regain it? doesn't seem that smart to me.

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Teru may be better off just taking Haru off and starting over. If he comes back in Haru and he's not 100%, he could end up being make-koshi or withdrawing from the basho anyway.

So you would have him lose his ozeki rank? and regain it? doesn't seem that smart to me.
Tochiazuma played that game very well. If Terunofuji's more likely to win 10 in May after sitting out March, than he is to win 8 in March while "gambarizing", why shouldn't he do that?

Of course if his issues are so severe that May isn't a credible target date either, it's a different question. That being said, a guy with obvious yokozuna potential really shouldn't worry about having to take a second run at 33-in-3, but whether he and his shisho will be able to convince themselves to take the long view like that...who knows.

Edited by Asashosakari
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As a credible Yokozuna candidate if healthy, I don't see why Terunofuji should be worried about losing his rank and not being able to go for 10 the next basho. It may prevent him from making Yokozuna any time soon, but he's clearly not healthy for that; he should, however, be able to regain Ozeki without too much of a problem if he actually recovers. It might take a year or two, but it makes more sense than competing injured.

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Tochiazuma played that game very well. If Terunofuji's more likely to win 10 in May after sitting out March, than he is to win 8 in March while "gambarizing", why shouldn't he do that?

As did Musoyama and Takanonami.

I don't see it becoming a problem for Terunofuji. He's young and his body will heal quickly and build back up after surgery, not to mention improved. And being a mentally determined individual, it is a smart option for him to be patient and wait it out. Even if he loses the chance to regain his status as sekiwake with at least a 10-5, a 33 in 3 at a lower rank is attainable for this fellow.

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As did Musoyama and Takanonami.

Takanonami was just declining and lost the ability to hold his ozeki rank altogether, he didn't drop to sekiwake as a way to prolong his career.

I wouldn't count Musoyama either; he got demoted after fighting through a complete basho.

Edit:

Even if he loses the chance to regain his status as sekiwake with at least a 10-5, a 33 in 3 at a lower rank is attainable for this fellow.

What lower rank? It's either 10-in-1 at sekiwake, or 33-in-3 in the joijin, which makes no functional difference as to the opponents he would have to beat. Edited by Asashosakari

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Because he is ozeki and if he were to fall to sekiwake he would need only one 10 win tournament to return to ozeki as opposed to 33 wins over 3 tournaments for those who have yet to reach ozeki rank. Should he fall below to joijin, wouldn't that mean he would have to start all over to return to ozeki? I know that I am getting way ahead of myself, but sorry in advance, I've been following professional sumo for only a few years.... and now confused about the promotion/relegation issue (Blinking...)

edit: Lower rank as in below sekiwake.

What lower rank? It's either 10-in-1 at sekiwake, or 33-in-3 in the joijin...

Isn't that what I originally posted?

Edited by inhashi

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Isn't that what I originally posted?

Your post seemed to imply that the wins for a three-basho run would somehow be easier to come by because of "lower rank". I was trying to say that it's a distinction without difference.

Oh, I see where we're talking past one another, I think. The 10-win regulation only applies to the basho directly following the demotion, not to every basho he's ranked as sekiwake. If he goes 9-6 after getting demoted, he's immediately back to the 33-win requirement.

Edited by Asashosakari

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Reason for withdrawl: Influenza :(

Seems to be quite a virulent strain this year. Today's shimpan.

CY5hyK7WEAANP6Z.jpg

Edited by inhashi

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Here is a case in point of someone who fell from Ozeki and ultimately made Yokozuna (even though his career after that was short lived)

http://sumodb.sumogames.de/Rikishi.aspx?shikona=mienoumi&heya=-1&shusshin=-1&b=-1&high=-1&hd=-1&entry=-1&intai=-1&sort=1

Hopefully Mitakeumi gets well from the flu soon, looks like it's affecting a lot of people lately.

Edited by WAKATAKE
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Any news on Ikioi's legs? He was walking weirdly yesterday.

Ikioi has injured his left shin in the day 6 bout against Yoshikaze and the pain grew on day 7. The right foot is heavily taped as well.

He can't put any strain on the leg and couldn't sleep because of the pain, basically he just wants to get through the basho.

http://www.nikkansports.com/battle/sumo/news/1593119.html

I had intended to only post this in the pics thread, since there is no imminent danger of kyujo - but we can't expect anything from him for the rest of the basho.

Edit: Ikioi has stopped today to be the tachi-mochi in Kakuryu's dohyo-iri and tsuyu-harai Sokokurai was tachi-mochi with Toyonoshima as tsuyu-harai, like on day 5 when Ikioi faced Kakuryu and thus couldn't be his attendant

Edited by Akinomaki
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He looks now like he can barely walk. Don't know how much more he can take if he tries to finish out the basho.

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Day 9

withdrawing:

West Jonidan 26 TSUNEKAWA (2-2)

returning:

East Sandanme 73 MITOTSUKASA (absent from day 1)

East Jonidan 23 ONOKURA (2-1-1) (absent from day 7)

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Here is a case in point of someone who fell from Ozeki and ultimately made Yokozuna (even though his career after that was short lived)

http://sumodb.sumogames.de/Rikishi.aspx?shikona=mienoumi&heya=-1&shusshin=-1&b=-1&high=-1&hd=-1&entry=-1&intai=-1&sort=1

Hopefully Mitakeumi gets well from the flu soon, looks like it's affecting a lot of people lately.

What does the "HD" stand for in "O3eHD", "Y2eHD", etc.?

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HD is hari-dashi, added to the proper rank and sticking out on the printed banzuke. Now it's no longer used, it's simply the 2nd of the same (east/west) rank and well arranged on the printed banzuke.

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What does the "HD" stand for in "O3eHD", "Y2eHD", etc.?

HD = Haridashi. Back until the mid-1990s a "proper" sanyaku in the printed banzuke always consisted of exactly one East and one West rikishi at each rank. If there were more rikishi holding one of the ranks, their entries were placed off to the side on "flaps" sticking out, like this:

image036.gif

(Picture link from Le Monde du Sumo.)

In the banzuke in the picture, there's a third yokozuna on the East side (the right) and a third ozeki on the West side (the left).

Edited by Asashosakari
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