Baruto activities

[Asashosakari 18,650]

Being aware of MMA fans on this forum I knew that I was in for a pummeling ;-), but points well made.

I don't consider myself an MMA fan at all. The closest I ever got was an interest in K-1 (starting years before Akebono), and that barely counts as MMA in my book as it was little more than a kickboxing code. Beyond that, all I've got to show is a latent but somewhat lapsed interest in pro wrestling, which is rather at the opposite end of the spectrum relative to MMA.

Anyway, I just don't think sumo fans have a leg to stand on when it comes to looking down on other fight sports; for all the ceremonial aspects that remain part of Ozumo, the fact of the matter is that with the possible exception of boxing (via its prizefighting ancestors), sumo might well be the oldest "entertainmentized" fight sport out there. Don't romanticize it too much.

The problem with Akebono in K-1 was that he sucked at it, not that K-1 was somehow a low-brow type of martial art not fit for a former sumotori.

Edited October 24, 2015 by Asashosakari

[egparis18 622]

Hello everybody,

Art and sport, especially wrestling, have been more or less inextricable for millenia. You can see what I mean here ;

http://www.wrestlingsbest.com/gifs/wrespictart02.html

On the previous page there are truly ancient works, and on the following one there are gifs. Times change.

Art can be vulgar and nasty and kick you in the b****s, no apologies. Usain Bolt blows kisses. The face of an athlete who's just given his or her all can break your heart wide open, just like a Rembrandt.

I'm sure you all agree with each other really.

[inhashi 2,363]

I'm sure you all agree with each other really.

(Sign of approval...)

at least between the 4 of us we agree that we are not MMA fans

This really is going way off topic. Maybe it can be moved to a new or more appropriate one? I don't mind criticism in discussion. In fact, just out of curiosity, I'm always up for staying up-to-date on the dynamics of other's opinions. Isn't that part of the reason why forums are around?

[Akinomaki 39,486]

Fuji TV after 10 years again will broadcast a fighting event on New Years EVE, that RIZIN Fighting World GP, which Baruto plans to be in. I loved the K-1 events from the year they started, but never have been a fan of PRIDE, which in 2005 was the last such event on Fuji TV. 2003 saw PRIDE on Fuji TV and Akebono vs. Bob Sapp in K-1 on TBS, double Year End fighting.
http://www.hochi.co.jp/entertainment/20151023-OHT1T50206.html
Akebono meanwhile made a comment of support to the "shin-deshi" in the fighting circuit: "Rather than win or lose, come out of it uninjured." "Sumo is an all year event, no time to heal. After resting for some years and the pain gone, being still young, one wants to fight again. He hasn't quit (sumo) because he doesn't want a contest anymore."
http://www.daily.co.jp/newsflash/ring/2015/10/24/0008507548.shtml

@mods: I think a thread "Sumo and martial arts" with the posts above split off from this thread as a start for discussion about what are and what part of ozumo is martial arts would be interesting to have.

Edited October 25, 2015 by Akinomaki

[inhashi 2,363]

pic in the link from Unkonoyama's post above was circulating on twitter yesterday

[Hakuhonofan 334]

In the span of 4 months, he changed his mind from tending 70 cattles in his farm and planning a travel agent business to this? I find it hard to believe if monetary gain isn't an issue.

Edited October 25, 2015 by Hakuhonofan

[Mukonoso 273]

I've never noticed any martial arts going on in MMA. It usually looks like a couple of guys boxing without gloves and kicking wildly. Most every match I've seen ends in a boring submission hold. I guess I'm just too spoiled by choreographed movies.

[Morningstar 117]

Modern MMA dates back to the Ancient Greek sport of Pankration, which combined boxing and wrestling. Anyone who thinks this is not a Martial Art is probably not aware of the Martial i.e. military roots of the fighting arts. Or, is to hung up on Wu Shu style "Fighting Ballet" that you see in many movies.

I wish Baruto the best, but he has a massive hill to climb in order to be anything but a minor attraction. MMA at the top levels require excellent striking ability and take down defense. Otherwise you end up being out pointed on punches or spend most of your time on your back defending against submissions or ground and pound. It takes years of extensive training to do those well. And neither is taught or practiced in Sumo. Much od Sumo is utterly meaningless in an MMA environment, as the victory conditions are very different.

I hope the matchmaker finds a good opponent for him that can give him a good testing. And, just does not throw him into the deep end with a very experienced fighter with great striking and wrestling skills.

[torquato 1,075]

Modern MMA dates back to the Ancient Greek sport of Pankration, which combined boxing and wrestling.

No it doesn't. It just happens that you can see parallels in two different fighting 'sports', which developed in diffenrent times under different conditions.

[Akinomaki 39,486]

Do the modern Olympics date back to the Greek ones?
Who named the pancrase variety must have at least thought of these "roots".

And with Nomi-no-Sukune killing his opponent with a well placed kick, you can see how much ozumo has in common with it's own ancestor.

[Morningstar 117]

​

Modern MMA dates back to the Ancient Greek sport of Pankration, which combined boxing and wrestling.

No it doesn't. It just happens that you can see parallels in two different fighting 'sports', which developed in diffenrent times under different conditions.

That Pankration is one of the historical roots of modern MMA is rather non-controversial among historians. That as a formal Martial Art it predates most others is also non-controversial.

The Greeks passed it on to the Romans. And, their successor states evolved it into a variety of local fighting sports and folk wrestling styles. The modern revival of the name in the 60's Pre-dates modern MMA (late 70's). And, it has been listed as an inspiration by some of the founders of Modern MMA (Jim Arvanitis, Frank Caliguri, ect...).

I fail to see how something that can be directly traced back to Pankration can not be considered as dating from it.

Here is some basic works on Martial Arts history for you listing Pankration as an ancestor of MMA:

https://openlibrary.org/books/OL7975896M/Ultimate_Martial_Arts_Encyclopedia

https://openlibrary.org/books/OL1753382M/The_original_martial_arts_encyclope

https://books.google.com/books?id=sHdaPgAACAAJ&dq=isbn:9780897501828&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0CB0Q6AEwAGoVChMI1-3zubzfyAIVxms-Ch1Xkg45

[Masumasumasu 902]

MMA might work in a cage or on the beaches of Brazil (against a single opponent) but to roll around on the ground with a man between one's legs is the last ting a person in a street fight wants to do. Especially against multiple opponents.

[inhashi 2,363]

In the span of 4 months, he changed his mind from tending 70 cattles in his farm and planning a travel agent business to this?...

I was wondering the same. Although after living a life of sumo, competition, and rivalry, a somewhat young guy like him would have a desire to return to it after being abruptly removed.

[Asashosakari 18,650]

I hope the matchmaker finds a good opponent for him that can give him a good testing. And, just does not throw him into the deep end with a very experienced fighter with great striking and wrestling skills.

I wouldn't be worried about that. Given the sorry state of MMA in Japan and Baruto's celebrity status from Ozumo, it's clear that he is a special attraction type of signing, not a guy they're expecting to fight championship-level opponents anytime soon. Maybe he'll develop into a credible fighter if he sticks with it, but at first he'll just be expected to bring in viewers on name value and put on a decent show. Using him as cannonfodder for the regulars would be counterproductive. (For clarity, I mean "show" as in entertaining bout, of course, not pre-determined outcome.)

[Hakuhonofan 334]

In the span of 4 months, he changed his mind from tending 70 cattles in his farm and planning a travel agent business to this?...

I was wondering the same. Although after living a life of sumo, competition, and rivalry, a somewhat young guy like him would have a desire to return to it after being abruptly removed.

I hope so. Didn't he quit because he felt he was powerless because of many injuries he had? MMA would worsen his injuries somehow. That's why I suspect he's in it for the money.

Anyways, it's his life. All I could do is wishing him the best. He's such a nice guy after all.

[Seijakuzan 59]

Martial 'arts' are not art. Not in the slightest. I detest the mis-use of language. Words have meaning.

Beethoven was an artist. Cage-fighters are crude entertainers at best. Art must express that which makes us human. One tattooed muscle-head beating another (wo)man to a pulp doesn't qualify.

There are many forms of martial arts that involve very little fighting, and many that you could study for years without ever sparring. The modern day has bastardized "martial arts" to refer exclusively to forms of violence, especially with the term "MMA".

[Benevolance 2,453]

. Didn't he quit because he felt he was powerless because of many injuries he had?

I think Baruto would have stayed in sumo had he been able to rehabilitate his knee; his technique just wasn't so good that he had options for fighting one-legged. I seem to recall that an ozeki dropping into juryo/makushita was going to be a no-no, but I don't claim to know the full score on that account. But it's been over 2 years (!) since Baruto fought and it's reasonable to assume that his knee is better.

And, hey, most bouncers I know have some experience brawling, so I don't think that doing the MMA circuit is really that much of a stretch for Kaido.

[Asashosakari 18,650]

And, hey, most bouncers I know have some experience brawling, so I don't think that doing the MMA circuit is really that much of a stretch for Kaido.

Defense is probably going to be his biggest weakness - for that reason, I suspect they're not going to put him against an opponent with a strong submission arsenal. (Assuming submission holds are going to be legal at all.) Special attraction bouts that end in a quick tapout are no good from the entertainment angle. Edited October 26, 2015 by Asashosakari

[Kasutera 258]

I'm surprised some of the people in this thread can see their keyboards to type with their noses turned so firmly in the air.

[inhashi 2,363]

Quick clip of the former ozeki announcing his decision to compete in MMA at the end of this year and to thank a show of support.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a_3DRZdTqzY

Edited November 3, 2015 by inhashi

[Kuroyama 715]

Let's not forget that Baruto won his ozeki promotion on the strength of a performance where he had fractured a finger (his thumb?) and so could not rely on his usual belt techniques. He switched to tsuppari, and the results were impressive. I have no doubt he can train to be a quite effective striker.

[Katooshu 3,079]

Did Akebono not have some of the best tsuppari attacks in sumo history? I can see how it's related to striking but I'm not sure they're comparable enough that being effective at one means you'll be effective at the other.

[Unkonoyama 104]

The Rizin FF website has a brief interview with ex-Baruto in English:

http://www.rizinff.com/en/interview/20151026_1188.html

There is also a fighter profile for him:

http://www.rizinff.com/en/fighter/20151007_1143.html

[Akinomaki 39,486]

http://www.tokyo-sports.co.jp/prores/mens_prores/465697/ with another interview in Japanese

- Rather than caring for the manner of winning he just cares for the win: going for a KO win is next year, the year after that it's a sure thing.

- The knee that caused intai has gotten better in the 2 years, it hurts a bit while training, but every sportsman has pain somewhere

- He wants to do more than 1 fight in RIZIN.

[Monnodo 60]

It is maybe not the right place to post this and I am not too sure if it is true, but I think it kinda fits.

In a wrestling forum it was mentioned that Akebono dropped the Triple Crown (All Japan Wrestlings World title) so that he can participate in Rizin. Now I did not find that news on english websites and I do not speak japanese (maybe someone who does could check^^).

But if it is true then Baruto woulld not be the only former rikishi there.