Yubinhaad 8,752 Posted November 25, 2015 Four promotions for the New Year, two newcomers, one new shikona, and two returnees. Debut: Tsurugisho - 剣翔, formerly Abiko (Mk1e, 5-2, Oitekaze-beya) Chiyoshoma (Mk3w, 6-1, Kokonoe) Returning: Dewahayate (Mk4e, 4-3, Dewanoumi) Chiyonokuni (Mk4w, 5-2, Kokonoe) I'm glad Abiko has finally sealed the deal. Shotenro gets the short end of the stick this time. 3 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Tenshinhan 1,492 Posted November 25, 2015 And poor Wakanoshima doesn't get the same treatment as Tamaasuka last time. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Gurowake 2,222 Posted November 25, 2015 The Kyokai aren't known for their consistency. I think they do things differently from time to time just to show people that they can and that no one can do anything about it. 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Asashosakari 14,164 Posted November 25, 2015 As mentioned in the banzuke thread I'm not too surprised that they're dropping Wakanoshima, but - Dewahayate, wow. They really like to draw a big fat line between Ms5 and Ms6, don't they? And Shotenro might not even be getting the top spot on the next banzuke given that Wakanoshima is coming down... Not a Daisho* shikona for Abiko. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Tenshinhan 1,492 Posted November 25, 2015 The Kyokai aren't known for their consistency. I think they do things differently from time to time just to show people that they can and that no one can do anything about it. And additionally Tamaasuka maybe had some kind of bonus because of his longer sekitori career. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Gurowake 2,222 Posted November 25, 2015 As mentioned in the banzuke thread I'm not too surprised that they're dropping Wakanoshima, but - Dewahayate, wow. They really like to draw a big fat line between Ms5 and Ms6, don't they? And Shotenro might not even be getting the top spot on the next banzuke given that Wakanoshima is coming down... Not a Daisho* shikona for Abiko. It's not a line, just a massive fall-off; recall Ishiura promoted after Hatsu over 4-3 Ms5e. So the combination of those two would suggest (if we discount what I mentioned in my last post) that a 6-1 Ms6 falls somewhere in between, and it would make sense that they're saying one more win is only worth one more rank (even though it's worth two as sekitori, and should go up as the ranks go down). Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Gurowake 2,222 Posted November 25, 2015 Looking at the rest of Oitekaze-beya, I guess it is odd that Abiko would take a shikona not starting with Daisho-, even if they aren't as well known about it from my view as Sadogatake and Kokonoe's prefixes. They probably just aren't as strict about it, letting Endo keep his family name forever and Daieisho getting to rearrange the order of the syllables. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Asashosakari 14,164 Posted November 25, 2015 (edited) It's not a line, just a massive fall-off; recall Ishiura promoted after Hatsu over 4-3 Ms5e. So the combination of those two would suggest (if we discount what I mentioned in my last post) that a 6-1 Ms6 falls somewhere in between, and it would make sense that they're saying one more win is only worth one more rank (even though it's worth two as sekitori, and should go up as the ranks go down).Well yes. :-) I actually have a collection of all the close decisions from the last few decades, and they're fairly consistent that e.g. Ms5e 4-3 = Ms6e 5-2 = Ms7e 6-1, so Ishiura was inside of it (three half-ranks) and Shotenro outside (five). It's just rather weird to see the current committee stick to it because they've vastly reduced the value of 4-3's everywhere else in makushita. Within the top 5 ranks four half-ranks is pretty much equal to a difference of only one win, not two. Edited November 25, 2015 by Asashosakari Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Fay 1,675 Posted November 25, 2015 Yes, yes, yes, Chiyoshoma. So happy for him. One more on the list ;-) 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Akinomaki 26,898 Posted November 25, 2015 Four promotions for the New Year, two newcomers, one new shikona, and two returnees. Debut: Tsurugisho - 剣翔, formerly Abiko (Mk1e, 5-2, Oitekaze-beya) I had hoped he would be Kensho when I first saw the new shikona. 3 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
torquato 1,075 Posted November 25, 2015 Looking at the rest of Oitekaze-beya, I guess it is odd that Abiko would take a shikona not starting with Daisho-, even if they aren't as well known about it from my view as Sadogatake and Kokonoe's prefixes. They probably just aren't as strict about it, letting Endo keep his family name forever and Daieisho getting to rearrange the order of the syllables. Seems to be not unusual at Oitekaze to start off with their real family names. Besides Endo and Abiko currently there's also Iwasaki (Ms 37w) still with his family name. Seems that in these cases they get a proper shikona on Juryo promotion at the latest. I think Endo was just pure accident (and probably considered a mistake behind the scenes). He got his promotion on his second turnament. Apparently too quick for his shisho to find a proper shikona. I was curious and quickly went through some beyas to watch out for traditional shikona prefixes (and suffixes). This is what I got so far: Kokonoe: Chiyo* (千代) Sadogatake: Koto* (琴) Oitekaze: Daisho* (大翔) Kasugano: Tochi* (栃) Takanohana: Taka* (貴) Isegahama: *fuji (富士) Oguruma: *kaze (風) Tomozuna: Kyoku* (旭) / Kai* (魁) The two prefixes are the result of a merger? Are there more regular prefixes and suffixes? 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Senkoho 547 Posted November 25, 2015 (edited) Tomozuna: Kyoku* (旭) / Kai* (魁) The two prefixes are the result of a merger?Are there more regular prefixes and suffixes? Yes, I think that Kyoku/Asahi (旭) was a traditional element of Oshima-beya shikonas. Other than that, more and more Shikihide-beya rikishi are getting the -zakura (桜) suffix recently. Takasago-beya rikishi often get the Asa- (朝) prefix. Kataonami-beya uses the Tama- (玉) prefix. Tamanoi-beya uses azuma (東) either as a prefix or a suffix. Minato-beya - minato (湊) as prefix/suffix Kasugayama - kasuga (春日) as prefix/suffix Chiganoura - Masu (舛) as prefix Dewanoumi - Dewa (出羽) as prefix Hakkaku - Hokuto (北勝) as prefix Irumagawa - tsukasa (司) as suffix Michinoku - Kiri (霧) as prefix Sakaigawa - Sada (佐田) as prefix I think that's it. Edited November 25, 2015 by Senkoho 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Akinomaki 26,898 Posted November 25, 2015 (edited) Looking at the rest of Oitekaze-beya, I guess it is odd that Abiko would take a shikona not starting with Daisho-, even if they aren't as well known about it from my view as Sadogatake and Kokonoe's prefixes. They probably just aren't as strict about it, letting Endo keep his family name forever and Daieisho getting to rearrange the order of the syllables. Abiko had wished to have a shikona easy to remember with just 2 kanji and proposed to use the kanji Ken from his first name Kentaro, going with just the -sho- from the heya's traditional Daisho- prefix. Alas, he had to change the reading to Tsurugi (no shikona ever had -kensho- anywhere in it). And the first name he uses is Momotaro, those around him recommended it, but it looks like he opted for it then as well. The oyakata, who apparently had surprisingly little saying in those selections, commented though: "I want him to attract attention for his sumo, not for the name." http://www.hochi.co.jp/sports/sumo/20151125-OHT1T50097.html Goes well with Osunaarashi's Kintaro. Edited November 25, 2015 by Akinomaki 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mokele 3 Posted November 25, 2015 The Kyokai aren't known for their consistency. I think they do things differently from time to time just to show people that they can and that no one can do anything about it. It's good to know that others have noticed this and it's not just me. It really is obviously unfair to promote Dewahayate to Juryo instead of Shotenro. I have nothing against Dewahayate. It's just simply that 1 additional win in Makushita is worth at least twice as much as it's worth in Makuuchi, because there are more rikishi in Makushita, and because the Makushita rikishi have only 7 matches per basho instead of the 15 in the top division. In addition, Shotenro scored 2 more wins than Dewahayate. The Japan Sumo Association's choice is perplexing. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
shumitto 354 Posted November 25, 2015 Seems to be not unusual at Oitekaze to start off with their real family names. I think this rule applies not to Oitekaze, but to University rikishi at large. Kise-beya, for instance, has many with Uni. background almost all of them went by their family names in the beginning. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kuroimori 1,619 Posted November 25, 2015 And poor Wakanoshima doesn't get the same treatment as Tamaasuka last time. Meanwhile up in Makuuchi, Sadanofuji might not be too amused about that.... 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Akinomaki 26,898 Posted November 25, 2015 (edited) Another sekitori for Oitekaze-beya:Very happy Tsurugisho, former Abiko, with a very happy oyakata (ex-Daishoyama)maybe not that happy about the (full) shikona Tsurugisho (Momotaro)2 years to sekitori? + 2 kanji in the shikona? - it really looks like he likes to attract attentionHappy Chiyoshoma with a slightly happy Kokonoehe's looking much older and weaker than in Taiwan and at the boxing match recently Edited November 29, 2015 by Akinomaki 3 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
hamcornheinz 836 Posted November 25, 2015 Judging from the pictures I guess its Chiyotsurugisho? thats what the kanji says. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
torquato 1,075 Posted November 25, 2015 (edited) Judging from the pictures I guess its Chiyotsurugisho? thats what the kanji says. No. As Akinomaki already wrote between pictures it's Chiyoshoma. The stable ranking for Juryo reads from left to right: Chiyonokuni, Chiyoshoma, Chiyomaru, and Chiyoo. Edited November 25, 2015 by torquato Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Naganoyama 3,824 Posted November 25, 2015 Really pleased for Chiyoshoma! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Gurowake 2,222 Posted November 25, 2015 (edited) Seeing that heya ranking board reminds me that those 4 Kokonoe rikishi will almost certainly all be in the bottom half of Juryo. They will probably end up facing more higher ranked rikishi than normal because there aren't as many around their own rank to fight. Non-Kokonoe rikishi near the bottom will probably have to face all of them. Edited November 25, 2015 by Gurowake Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dingo 458 Posted November 25, 2015 he's looking much older and weaker than in Taiwan and at the boxing match recently Say it isn't so! He doesn't look much different on the photos here, although he does seem to be slimmer... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Feginowaka 53 Posted November 26, 2015 As mentioned in the banzuke thread I'm not too surprised that they're dropping Wakanoshima, but - Dewahayate, wow. They really like to draw a big fat line between Ms5 and Ms6, don't they? And Shotenro might not even be getting the top spot on the next banzuke given that Wakanoshima is coming down... Strange decision for most of us, I think. Oddly enough it didn't help that Shotenro's shisho (Fujishima) is the deputy head shimpan --> http://www.sumoforum.net/forums/index.php?showtopic=12380&p=274289 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
