omgitssumo 0 Posted November 8, 2015 please tell me the oldest one you can find or know of. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Seijakuzan 59 Posted November 9, 2015 please tell me the oldest one you can find or know of. The oldest I've seen is a few of Futabayama, as early as 1938. I'm sure stuff even older exists, though. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
torquato 1,075 Posted November 9, 2015 The oldest I could find with a quick YT search is this here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vMeY1a1zbWo I'd guess from around 1915 plus/ minus a few years. Has anybody got an idea who the two yoks are? There exists Japanese film material from even befor 1900. I would be very surprised, if these very early film makers in Japan didn't film sumo fighting. I'm sure there is stuff in the archives. 4 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Tony 16 Posted November 9, 2015 (edited) I guess that the two yokozuna are Nishinoumi II and Otori. Edited November 9, 2015 by Tony Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bettega 354 Posted November 10, 2015 I guess that the two yokozuna are Nishinoumi II and Otori. That would set the movie at 1917 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Benevolance 2,265 Posted November 10, 2015 Was this a jungyo or a tournament? At the end, it looks like the standard sort of round-robin training that rikishi do, which would seem odd at a basho. But maybe times change? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Irakusamaru 77 Posted November 10, 2015 I found this will looking for historical yokozuna dohyo-iri: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n3vUFg2mydo It has the 17th Yokozuna Konishiki at age 29 - which puts the clip from around 1895 - and the 18th Yokozuna Ozutsu (subtitles say Odutsu for some reason). Its in Japanese, but has subtitles for some headings. 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Seijakuzan 59 Posted November 10, 2015 I found this will looking for historical yokozuna dohyo-iri: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n3vUFg2mydo It has the 17th Yokozuna Konishiki at age 29 - which puts the clip from around 1895 - and the 18th Yokozuna Ozutsu (subtitles say Odutsu for some reason). Its in Japanese, but has subtitles for some headings. It's so haunting seeing such good video of people who have been dead for 100 years. Makes civilization as we know it seem so young. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Kuroyama 715 Posted November 10, 2015 I found this will looking for historical yokozuna dohyo-iri: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n3vUFg2mydo It has the 17th Yokozuna Konishiki at age 29 - which puts the clip from around 1895 - and the 18th Yokozuna Ozutsu (subtitles say Odutsu for some reason). Its in Japanese, but has subtitles for some headings. I've seen this one before. One oddity that struck me is how loose the soil on top of the dohyo was. I imagine the change to a firmer surface was made once the first Kokugikan was built and sumo moved indoors, to keep the dust down, but it must have been a difficult adjustment for some rikishi. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Asojima 2,835 Posted November 10, 2015 Was this a jungyo or a tournament? At the end, it looks like the standard sort of round-robin training that rikishi do, which would seem odd at a basho. But maybe times change? Are we sure that the ending activity is even Osumo. We recently had a video of a local sumo activity that looked almost exactly like the continuous round robin match in the video. In that one the winner was the guy who managed to win 5 consecutive matches. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Akinomaki 34,809 Posted November 10, 2015 (edited) I found this will looking for historical yokozuna dohyo-iri: It has the 17th Yokozuna Konishiki at age 29 - which puts the clip from around 1895 - and the 18th Yokozuna Ozutsu (subtitles say Odutsu for some reason). That's how you have to type it to get the right hiragana (soft from tsu and not from su, which is the standard for zu) to convert it to the right kanji. The play-list on that YouTube channel for Excellent sumo wrestlers, excellent bouts of the 20th century: https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLmgqfj5m0XF1ZUkHgIlj7Y0HYQSc610ur In Germany YouTube Unblocker (or similar) is needed to play the video above and many of the other 18 parts Was this a jungyo or a tournament? At the end, it looks like the standard sort of round-robin training that rikishi do, which would seem odd at a basho. But maybe times change?Are we sure that the ending activity is even Osumo. We recently had a video of a local sumo activity that looked almost exactly like the continuous round robin match in the video. In that one the winner was the guy who managed to win 5 consecutive matches. It has to be jungyo, gonin-gakari, like I found in the Sumo Daijiten to check for the gonin-nuki-sen A kind of condensed moushi-ai keiko. Once started the loser is replaced by the next from his side, skipping not only the shikiri time but also the tachi-ai. Surpassing 5 men fight: gonin-nuki-sen. In jungyo sometimes there is a gonin-gakari fight held, of 5 lower rankers against a yokozuna, in a similar fashion. The yokozuna has to win all five to win. Edited November 10, 2015 by Akinomaki 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ALAKTORN 346 Posted November 10, 2015 (edited) It has the 17th Yokozuna Konishiki at age 29 - which puts the clip from around 1895I think the video says 1901, though. The description at least says 1901–1932. Edit: I don’t know about the reliability of the English subtitles. I don’t think he’s 29 in that clip. That clip’s from 1901 as I understand it. Edited November 10, 2015 by ALAKTORN Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Irakusamaru 77 Posted November 10, 2015 It has the 17th Yokozuna Konishiki at age 29 - which puts the clip from around 1895I think the video says 1901, though. The description at least says 1901–1932. Edit: I don’t know about the reliability of the English subtitles. I don’t think he’s 29 in that clip. That clip’s from 1901 as I understand it. I don't speak Japanese and only recognise a handful of kanji, so its quite possible. I was just going by what I could understand. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
