Basho Talk - Kyushu Basho 2015 +++ Spoiler Alert! +++

[Irakusamaru 77]

Man, there needs to be a gif of Kisenosato putting on his 'war face' during the preparation. It was almost as scary as Hakuho's or Asashoryu's.

If there is a good shot let me know the video and time.

at either 2:48 or 3:29.

Watching it again, it might not make the most fascinating gif, but its such a great stare.

[Dapeng 233]

As Shohozan had already lost I presume you're joking about Harumafuji's sacrifice.

Since Shohozan had already lost, it's inconsequential whether he won Kise or not. The burden was already on Ami and Shohozan. No one can blame Haru for not giving Shoho a chance.

How exactly did he give Shoho a chance? By winning 12 straight bouts? How was that giving Shoho a chance? And since he lost after Shoho lost, how indeed? Or are you saying if Shoho had won, he would have lost on purpose? I do not understand your logic, sir, any way you turn it. He did not give Shoho a chance. Why should he? Shoho is not even Mongolian.

Can you read Japanese? If you can, you should know how Japan hungers for a Japan-born rikishi to win a basho, and how disappointed they are now. Do you think Hakuho and Harumafuji do not know it's been 10 years without a Japan-born winning a basho?

Shohozan had kept the hope alive until his bout with Aminishiki, and if he had beat Aminishiki, what Harumafuji will do? To beat Kise to deny the hope of a whole nation? Or just relax his strength to give Shohozan a chance? I believe he will relax.

Unfortunately, Shohozan lost, and the last two bouts were actually inconsequential......

[Gurowake 4,011]

Just to be clear, what you're saying is Aminshiki, despite being Japanese, didn't care about the hope of the Japanese people and beat Shohozan, but Harumafuji, despite not being Japanese, does care and would have lost twice on purpose?

[Asashosakari 18,959]

I wonder when Dapeng started to follow sumo. Must have been at some point after Nagoya 2014, I guess.

[lackmaker 434]

I'm not sure he's actually been following kyushu 2015

[Sora 12]

so he's put together this elaborate web of conspiracy... ... that accomplishes nothing? (Laughing...)

Edited November 23, 2015 by Sora

[Yubinhaad 11,590]

What, you've never seen a man brushing his hair before heading out for the dohyo-iri? (Blinking...)

Speaking of hair, a couple of early intai reports. Kokonoe-beya's Chiyohayate and Kise-beya's Higonohana fought the final bout of their careers on senshuraku, and their danpatsu-shiki took place already at their heya's senshuraku parties.

Chiyohayate with some flowers in the hanamichi following his final bout.

With an oichomage for the first and last time, joined by Chiyootori.

Kimura Konosuke officiated at the danpatsu-shiki, hopefully not yelling instructions at the participants.

Kokonoe-oyakata (former Yokozuna Chiyonofuji) makes the final cut.

Higonohana also with some flowers following his final bout.

And his stablemates line up to make their cut and bid him farewell during the danpatsu-shiki.

Edited November 23, 2015 by Yubinhaad

[Randomitsuki 2,807]

The last photo is spectacular. So many weird faces and poses on a single photo. Might have been taken directly from a Fellini movie. Thanks for sharing!

[Seijakuzan 59]

Hakuho's skill on the other hand comes from his technique, he's the undisputed master of it among current rikishi and he proved it very well this basho.

Which is why the ONLY thing that I still can't shake in regards to this basho is how Hakuho completely gave up against Terunofuji. If he truly hates Teru's guts for whatever reasons that can't be disclosed to the rest of us, and knew Teru was gimped, and wanted the yusho badly, why not at least take him for a spin a time or two and try to throw him off balance? Or even trip him? Hakuho's a sumo genius, had plenty of time to think and be creative, yet he was passive right from the tachi-ai. I keep watching it, and I'm coming up with nothing better than his injury getting seriously re-aggravated in the couple days prior. Especially with the disappointing Kakuryu dominating him the way he did the next day.

[Kintamayama 44,639]

Hakuho's skill on the other hand comes from his technique, he's the undisputed master of it among current rikishi and he proved it very well this basho.

Which is why the ONLY thing that I still can't shake in regards to this basho is how Hakuho completely gave up against Terunofuji. If he truly hates Teru's guts for whatever reasons that can't be disclosed to the rest of us, and knew Teru was gimped, and wanted the yusho badly, why not at least take him for a spin a time or two and try to throw him off balance? Or even trip him? Hakuho's a sumo genius, had plenty of time to think and be creative, yet he was passive right from the tachi-ai. I keep watching it, and I'm coming up with nothing better than his injury getting seriously re-aggravated in the couple days prior. Especially with the disappointing Kakuryu dominating him the way he did the next day.

Maybe he is injured-he fought poorly the last three days, not only against Terunofuji. He actually fought very shakily most of the basho and nearly lost a few times. I can't believe anyone can even remotely think Hakuhou would give up on a yusho for anything. And I don't see how having a 3 minute bout constitutes "completely giving up" against Terunofuji. If he wanted to do what you are insinuating, why go for three minutes? It could have been over in a few seconds. These guys can make it look good in a few seconds. They don't need three minutes.

Edited November 24, 2015 by Kintamayama

[hamcornheinz 839]

First gif (I assume we're looking at the gifs posted above) look at kise's left shoulder. He is raising Ama, one of the basics of basics of sumo.

Harumafuji very much did jump, he jumped into Kisenosato but got countered with a lift. Jumping into your opponent is also very basic... just look at how much Kotoshogiku uses it...

Having watched the first gif frame-by-frame, Harumafuji looks to be lifting himself up way before Kisenosato does anything. Looks to me more like Kise just takes advantage of it and helps him up, doesn’t initiate it himself. But we can agree to disagree.

isnt that what i said? " Harumafuji very much did jump, he jumped into Kisenosato but got countered with a lift. Jumping into your opponent is also very basic... just look at how much Kotoshogiku uses it... " rikishi "jump" into their opponents because thats the amount of force it takes to move one of these guys. thats why when they practice on the teppo the hit and then the leg follows. because you aren't just shifting weight you are actually moving your weight foward. They also lift themselves so they can create space to throw. Harumafuji also had almost all of his weight on his right leg the step after the tachiai, which is why when he got lifted by Kise's left arm, hes whole body shifted rapidly. There are so many reasons its not reasonable to resort to sumo eisegesis.

Edited November 24, 2015 by hamcornheinz

[Asashosakari 18,959]

so he's put together this elaborate web of conspiracy... ... that accomplishes nothing? (Laughing...)

I wouldn't say nothing. It did establish that Aminishiki is a stupid poopyhead.

[Akinomaki 40,030]

Speaking of haircut, Shikoroyama shimpan (Terao) had shaved his head - for Kitanoumi I guess.

[JariM 29]

What, you've never seen a man brushing his hair before heading out for the dohyo-iri? (Blinking...)

I'm not sure if this is relevant but I've heard that brushing yourself like that is actually good for your body and muscels.

Edited November 24, 2015 by JariM

[Gurowake 4,011]

This was the first basho that Kakuryu has beaten Hakuho other than tournaments leading up to his Ozeki and Yokozuna promotions.

[Seijakuzan 59]

Hakuho's skill on the other hand comes from his technique, he's the undisputed master of it among current rikishi and he proved it very well this basho.

Which is why the ONLY thing that I still can't shake in regards to this basho is how Hakuho completely gave up against Terunofuji. If he truly hates Teru's guts for whatever reasons that can't be disclosed to the rest of us, and knew Teru was gimped, and wanted the yusho badly, why not at least take him for a spin a time or two and try to throw him off balance? Or even trip him? Hakuho's a sumo genius, had plenty of time to think and be creative, yet he was passive right from the tachi-ai. I keep watching it, and I'm coming up with nothing better than his injury getting seriously re-aggravated in the couple days prior. Especially with the disappointing Kakuryu dominating him the way he did the next day.

Maybe he is injured-he fought poorly the last three days, not only against Terunofuji. He actually fought very shakily most of the basho and nearly lost a few times. I can't believe anyone can even remotely think Hakuhou would give up on a yusho for anything. And I don't see how having a 3 minute bout constitutes "completely giving up" against Terunofuji. If he wanted to do what you are insinuating, why go for three minutes? It could have been over in a few seconds. These guys can make it look good in a few seconds. They don't need three minutes.

I don't think he threw the match, I'm wondering what the hell was going through his head.. or lack thereof. Nobody's going to beat Terunofuji in a stamina match, and he had about 2 and a half minutes out of those 3 minutes to think about anything that he could do to try and outsmart Teru and go for the win, instead of burning himself out by literally being a support post.

Then again, Hakuho had been acting all kinds of strange since day 1 of the basho.

[CT3* 331]

I lurked on this Forum for years before I actually started posting. And because I'd read this Forum for so long, I came to feel like I "knew" certain posters and their styles (which is why there are a couple of people I have NEVER engaged as I see them as trolls).

Although I'd been reading forever and felt I knew some of the participant's communication styles, I was very mindful that they'd never interacted with me. My point? When joining a new community, I've never understood why some people come in with a dismissive or overbearing way of dealing with others. How does one enter a new community and then almost immediately begin to speak down to others? I find it pretty off putting.

just my random 2 cents...

[Seijakuzan 59]

I lurked on this Forum for years before I actually started posting. And because I'd read this Forum for so long, I came to feel like I "knew" certain posters and their styles (which is why there are a couple of people I have NEVER engaged as I see them as trolls).

Although I'd been reading forever and felt I knew some of the participant's communication styles, I was very mindful that they'd never interacted with me. My point? When joining a new community, I've never understood why some people come in with a dismissive or overbearing way of dealing with others. How does one enter a new community and then almost immediately begin to speak down to others? I find it pretty off putting.

just my random 2 cents...

I also lurked for quite a while. And I hope you're not referring to me as dismissive or overbearing... which I can only assume is directed at me as I'm the only "new" poster to post in this thread in the last 12 hours. I've never claimed to know more than anyone else on a topic.

[Asashosakari 18,959]

I think if it was directed at anybody, then at the guy who felt the need to ask if Kintamayama is able to read Japanese. (Laughing...) Talk about not doing the most basic homework...

[Benevolance 2,482]

Which is why the ONLY thing that I still can't shake in regards to this basho is how Hakuho completely gave up against Terunofuji.

Hak did as close to zero training as a person could do and still expect to compete. His bag of tricks can steal wins from rikishi that make mistakes, but Kakuryu and Terunofuji, despite both being injured, employed technically sound sumo. It's not inconceivable that he simply ran out of gas towards the end.

[808morgan 805]

Hakuho's skill on the other hand comes from his technique, he's the undisputed master of it among current rikishi and he proved it very well this basho.

Which is why the ONLY thing that I still can't shake in regards to this basho is how Hakuho completely gave up against Terunofuji. If he truly hates Teru's guts for whatever reasons that can't be disclosed to the rest of us, and knew Teru was gimped, and wanted the yusho badly, why not at least take him for a spin a time or two and try to throw him off balance? Or even trip him? Hakuho's a sumo genius, had plenty of time to think and be creative, yet he was passive right from the tachi-ai. I keep watching it, and I'm coming up with nothing better than his injury getting seriously re-aggravated in the couple days prior. Especially with the disappointing Kakuryu dominating him the way he did the next day.

Yeah Terunofuji is very easy to move around on a good day..... let alone with some injury.

[WAKATAKE 2,644]

My take on Hakuho is that he injured himself during that bout with Harumafuji. He may not have shown it physically, but it definitely got to him mentally. As for Aminishiki beating Shohozan, some people seem to forget that Aminishiki and Harumafuji are in the same heya. So why wouldn't Aminishiki want to give his stablemate the advantage?

[Kuroyama 715]

Before the last couple of basho, has Hakuho ever had to fight injured before? The only serious injury I can recall was the broken toe that delayed his tsuna run. It didn't happen during a basho, or even during keiko, and he took the next basho off to allow it to heal.

Perhaps having to cope with injury during competition is a bit of a chink in his psychological armor.

Edit: Looking at the database, I see he once had to withdraw back in 2005, as a Sekiwake. Still, both injuries were a long time ago.

Edited November 25, 2015 by Kuroyama

[CT3* 331]

I lurked on this Forum for years before I actually started posting. And because I'd read this Forum for so long, I came to feel like I "knew" certain posters and their styles (which is why there are a couple of people I have NEVER engaged as I see them as trolls).

Although I'd been reading forever and felt I knew some of the participant's communication styles, I was very mindful that they'd never interacted with me. My point? When joining a new community, I've never understood why some people come in with a dismissive or overbearing way of dealing with others. How does one enter a new community and then almost immediately begin to speak down to others? I find it pretty off putting.

just my random 2 cents...

I also lurked for quite a while. And I hope you're not referring to me as dismissive or overbearing... which I can only assume is directed at me as I'm the only "new" poster to post in this thread in the last 12 hours. I've never claimed to know more than anyone else on a topic.

I wasn't directing anything solely at you, playa.

[wuli 67]

and perhaps not to me, if even at all, ct3

i still do recognize myself in your criticism and want to assure, no disrespect intended to anyone

sincerely apologize for any that may have been displayed

i am new here and, no doubt, lack context for many considerations

will try to hold on to my horses, going forward