Dapeng 232 Posted November 21, 2015 For so many many years did you ever see a Japan-born so near to yusho and how hunger the Japanese fans for a Japan-born yusho?Tochiozan was pretty close once upon a time... But Kyoku was also very close and it was his only chance....... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ALAKTORN 346 Posted November 21, 2015 (edited) Just watched day 14 without prior knowledge. How the hell does Hakuho lose a match to a guy who isn't putting any weight on his right leg? Why does Hakuho put up no opposition to his 1-legged opponent shoving him to the edge of the ring, then meekly step out?Because it was yaochō. I wrote this before reading all posts: Hakuhō–Terunofuji was 100% yaochō. Hakuhō could’ve yorikiri’d Terunofuji about 17 billion times during the match, but he never once attempted an attack. Even when he lost, he didn’t put up much resistance (sure, he was the rest of the time, but that’s only to make the bout have a semblance of legitimacy). If you can’t see Hakuhō gave that away, you’re a fool. I don’t need to justify it with a reason when it was that obvious– but either way I can see why he would want to help an injured fellow Mongolian (and possibly friend?) risking kadoban. Sure now he might not take the cup, but do you really think Hakuhō cares about the cup at this point in his career? Edited November 21, 2015 by ALAKTORN 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ronnie 221 Posted November 21, 2015 Yoshikaze might have been beter off losing today...? That ran through my head too. Maybe it is too early in the morning for me, but could you please elaborate? If Yoshikaze loses, Goeido keeps his Ozeki and a Sekiwake slot is available. Now,if Goeido loses tomorrow, he grabs the Sekiwake slot, and Yoshikaze is left as a Komusubi. The last Ozeki who lost his rank and stayed on was Chiyotaikai after the Kyushu basho 2009. In that basho both the Komusubi's were MK, (ironically Goeido was one of those), with the effect that there were only 2 Sekiwake on the next banzuke. As far as I know, there is no bar on having 3 Sekiwake and I can think of no reason that a possible 9-6 Yoshikaze wouldn't be one of them. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
hamcornheinz 839 Posted November 21, 2015 Just watched day 14 without prior knowledge. How the hell does Hakuho lose a match to a guy who isn't putting any weight on his right leg? Why does Hakuho put up no opposition to his 1-legged opponent shoving him to the edge of the ring, then meekly step out?Because it was yaochō.I wrote this before reading all posts: Hakuhō–Terunofuji was 100% yaochō. Hakuhō could’ve yorikiri’d Terunofuji about 17 billion times during the match, but he never once attempted an attack. Even when he lost, he didn’t put up much resistance (sure, he was the rest of the time, but that’s only to make the bout have a semblance of legitimacy). If you can’t see Hakuhō gave that away, you’re a fool. I don’t need to justify it with a reason when it was that obvious– but either way I can see why he would want to help an injured fellow Mongolian (and possibly friend?) risking kadoban. This, my friends, is what is commonly known as "being completely wrong about everything" 6 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ALAKTORN 346 Posted November 21, 2015 This, my friends, is what is commonly known as "being completely wrong about everything"Can you argument your point better than simply saying I’m wrong or…? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
K. Sear 27 Posted November 21, 2015 This, my friends, is what is commonly known as "being completely wrong about everything"Can you argument your point better than simply saying I’m wrong or…? Well, honestly, when the prior argument was based on things like "If you can’t see Hakuhō gave that away, you’re a fool. I don’t need to justify it with a reason when it was that obvious" I'd say that the counterargument was just as persuasive... 3 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
wuli 67 Posted November 21, 2015 Just watched day 14 without prior knowledge. How the hell does Hakuho lose a match to a guy who isn't putting any weight on his right leg? Why does Hakuho put up no opposition to his 1-legged opponent shoving him to the edge of the ring, then meekly step out?Because it was yaochō.I wrote this before reading all posts: Hakuhō–Terunofuji was 100% yaochō. Hakuhō could’ve yorikiri’d Terunofuji about 17 billion times during the match, but he never once attempted an attack. Even when he lost, he didn’t put up much resistance (sure, he was the rest of the time, but that’s only to make the bout have a semblance of legitimacy). If you can’t see Hakuhō gave that away, you’re a fool. I don’t need to justify it with a reason when it was that obvious– but either way I can see why he would want to help an injured fellow Mongolian (and possibly friend?) risking kadoban. Sure now he might not take the cup, but do you really think Hakuhō cares about the cup at this point in his career? teru getting his 8 is just icing on the cake as experienced viewers here have alluded, hakuho stepping away allows the japanese cinderella (messiah?) to prevail or, at the least, reinforces harumafuji as legitimate yokozuna both worthy goals for keeping sumo alive Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Kintamayama 44,391 Posted November 21, 2015 Just watched day 14 without prior knowledge. How the hell does Hakuho lose a match to a guy who isn't putting any weight on his right leg? Why does Hakuho put up no opposition to his 1-legged opponent shoving him to the edge of the ring, then meekly step out?Because it was yaochō.I wrote this before reading all posts: Hakuhō–Terunofuji was 100% yaochō. Hakuhō could’ve yorikiri’d Terunofuji about 17 billion times during the match, but he never once attempted an attack. Even when he lost, he didn’t put up much resistance (sure, he was the rest of the time, but that’s only to make the bout have a semblance of legitimacy). If you can’t see Hakuhō gave that away, you’re a fool. I don’t need to justify it with a reason when it was that obvious– but either way I can see why he would want to help an injured fellow Mongolian (and possibly friend?) risking kadoban. Sure now he might not take the cup, but do you really think Hakuhō cares about the cup at this point in his career? teru getting his 8 is just icing on the cake as experienced viewers here have alluded, hakuho stepping away allows the japanese cinderella (messiah?) to prevail or, at the least, reinforces harumafuji as legitimate yokozuna both worthy goals for keeping sumo alive Total nonsense of course. 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Kintamayama 44,391 Posted November 21, 2015 (edited) This, my friends, is what is commonly known as "being completely wrong about everything"Can you argument your point better than simply saying I’m wrong or…? He wouldn't stretch it for three minutes. All you wrote is total nonsense and comes from the theory that Hakuhou can't lose if he doesn't want to. As I have written so many times before, there are internal Mongolian rikishi politics that you know nothing of. Hakuhou would not give Terunofuji (or Harumafuji) the time of day, let alone let them beat him. I'm guessing you are a Hakuhou fan. Not worth answering even, but I like you so I'm giving you some of my wisdom.. For free. Edit- Hakuhou was very lucky this basho to not reach this point with 4 losses at least. He has not trained and has not recovered from his injury. But why burden you conspiracy mongers with facts? Edited November 21, 2015 by Kintamayama 5 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Asashosakari 18,835 Posted November 21, 2015 Hakuho is so good, he only gets injured when he wants to. 16 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bettega 427 Posted November 21, 2015 We're seein' tha same as the last two bashos that Hakuho was in, he's bored. He's has no clear motivation anymore. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
hamcornheinz 839 Posted November 21, 2015 (edited) This, my friends, is what is commonly known as "being completely wrong about everything"Can you argument your point better than simply saying I’m wrong or…? yes. No way any rikishi gives up a yusho just to save NOT an ozeki's rank, but to save him from kodoban, a situation he undoubtedly would get out of next basho. And did you completely miss the part where Hakuho held up a 180 kilos man for minutes? Or the part that 3 days fresh off the injury Terunofuji managed to force out another yokozuna while fighting for the yusho, BECAUSE HIS KNEE INJURY ONLY LIMITS SIDEWAYS MOVEMENT? *completely and utterly wrong about everything* Edited November 21, 2015 by hamcornheinz 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DarthJF 5 Posted November 21, 2015 Anyone thinking Hakuhou would just throw up a yusho to help out fellow Mongolian should rewatch how "easily" he gave Harumafuji his yokozuna promotion. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oRwq5rF85cE 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Yubinhaad 11,562 Posted November 21, 2015 whats wrong with kotoshogiku? If you watch his bout against Myogiryu yesterday, he is clearly hopping and limping immediately after the bout ends, favouring his left leg. I don't know if the injury actually happened in that quick bout or if he already had it. Anyway, I'm just so glad that he won it to get his kachi-koshi - the last thing he needs or deserves is to go kadoban in his home basho, and then be under that pressure post-injury again. 4 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rhyen 1,809 Posted November 21, 2015 Let's predict who will win this tournament: If Shohozan wins tomorrow, then: Harumafuji- loses Hakuho- loses Playoff: Harumafuji- loses again. ---a Japan-born wins a tournament, which has not happened in 9 years. 喜大普奔。 One of many scenarios that could happen tomorrow. You could have Harumafuji winning his match and that is pretty much it. You could have Harumafuji lose and Hakuho and Shohozan win for a 3-way playoff. If Shohozan loses he is out either way. Many scenarios that can happen tomorrow but so far it's been exciting to see it turn out this way. At least Hakuho didn't run away with it again. Now he has to fight for it tomorrow plus needs luck on his side. To restore order to the universe and this thread: Harumafuji loses, Hakuho wins, Shohozan loses/wins. Hakuho wins playoff 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
LuckyBax 3 Posted November 21, 2015 Reading all this conspiracy theories about Hakuho giving away a bout are extremely entertaining. And pure fiction. As much as I love Hakuho (my all times favorite), he is just human, therefore he can fail sometime. And from what I've seen he is Very proud too! I was surprised by the taichiai, but as someone commented on Kinta's video, he was probably expecting some kind of henka. After that, we all know of Terunofuji strenght and endurance, long bouts often turn in his favor, and he made no mistake. Today he was the best rikishi. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
wuli 67 Posted November 21, 2015 (edited) To restore order to the universe and this thread: Harumafuji loses, Hakuho wins, Shohozan loses/wins. Hakuho wins playoff a friendly way to end a conversation along the same lines of friendliness- as to yaocho, like so many topics, different eyes see differently can we agree to allow one another our independent, and (hopefully) sincere, views without disrespect, namecalling etc? how about each one speaking their own truth, and allowing the readers to come to independent understanding? Edited November 21, 2015 by wuli 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Kishinoyama 582 Posted November 21, 2015 Anyone thinking Hakuhou would just throw up a yusho to help out fellow Mongolian should rewatch how "easily" he gave Harumafuji his yokozuna promotion. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oRwq5rF85cE In this particular video their will be people that think Hakuho lost balance at the end of the match on purpose to make it look like a legitimate loss. In other words, some people will think it is yaochō no matter what video you post to try and prove otherwise. Personally, I do not think Hakuho (or any Yokozuna) would lose a match when having a chance for a yusho. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rhyen 1,809 Posted November 21, 2015 In this particular video their will be people that think Hakuho lost balance at the end of the match on purpose to make it look like a legitimate loss. In other words, some people will think it is yaochō no matter what video you post to try and prove otherwise. Personally, I do not think Hakuho (or any Yokozuna) would lose a match when having a chance for a yusho. And one can also add, with 49 kensho envelops at stake. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
wuli 67 Posted November 21, 2015 rhyen and kishinoyama i understand and do not dispute your views as an additional view for your consideration- how many yushos and envelopes would hakuho (or any yokozuna) need to have, to have reached a place where they value other things more, for example, the pleasure of the fans and the future of sumo going forward? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ALAKTORN 346 Posted November 21, 2015 He wouldn't stretch it for three minutes.He didn’t, Terunofuji did. Hakuhō was simply defending to make it look legitimate, and Terunofuji took his time to do attacks. All you wrote is total nonsense and comes from the theory that Hakuhou can't lose if he doesn't want to.No, it comes from the theory that Hakuhō could’ve easily attacked many times during the bout, but never did. That’s really the one thing that looks fishy to me. Watching the bout, I thought there were plenty of opportunities for Hakuhō to win it, so I’m confused as to why he didn’t even try. I don’t think Teru-Kak was yaochō yesterday (Teru did a nice hatakikomi) and I’m usually not one for conspiracy theories. As I have written so many times before, there are internal Mongolian rikishi politics that you know nothing of. Hakuhou would not give Terunofuji (or Harumafuji) the time of day, let alone let them beat him.I’ve read this many times before, but if nobody explains them to me, I can not know… I'm guessing you are a Hakuhou fan.Mainly, but I’m a fan of many. Harumafuji’s and Terunofuji’s both. Edit- Hakuhou was very lucky this basho to not reach this point with 4 losses at least. He has not trained and has not recovered from his injury.This is actually an interesting point. I’m aware he was injured and couldn’t train very well, but he’s looked pretty good so far in this basho; you could say that the yaguranage against Okinoumi was a sign of weakness (he was pushed back), but I’d say the contrary– it takes a lot of strength to pull off something like that, something an injured rikishi shouldn’t be able to do. Sorry if this is considered OT/spam. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Fukurou 534 Posted November 21, 2015 (edited) Edit- Hakuhou was very lucky this basho to not reach this point with 4 losses at least. He has not trained and has not recovered from his injury. But why burden you conspiracy mongers with facts? What I wrote came out harsher than intended, but seriously, that should never have happened - unless Hakuho either gave it away or was injured. As big as an ego-monster I personally think he is, Hakuho is just not going to intentionally lose on day 14 when it puts him in the position of having to win on day 15, just to have the possibility of forcing a playoff against Harumafuji. Which means he would have to be injured, but if it's from last basho, why is it only showing up now? Did he maybe re-injure something, possibly in the match with Harumafuji? Lots of questions, and no completely accurate answers are likely to ever come. Edited November 21, 2015 by Fukurou 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Sora 12 Posted November 21, 2015 (edited) conspiracy theories are tiresome. also, i know its a long shot, but i've got my fingers crossed for a shouhouzan upset tomorrow :-) Edited November 21, 2015 by Sora 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
808morgan 805 Posted November 21, 2015 AMA AMA AMA AMA! (Enjoyable TV program...) 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
808morgan 805 Posted November 21, 2015 Ok, Ama is in it now! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites