Basho Talk - Kyushu Basho 2015 +++ Spoiler Alert! +++

[wuli 67]

You know I can't answer that, ...

The only other guy who could ever behave like this would be Asashoryu, and I think we agree that he's not a good example of what hinkaku looks like.

correct

you cannot answer

asahoryu is a red herring

regarding respect, like so many other things,

doesn't it begin at home?

i respect you enough to talk straight

hakuho may display a humor you are not familiar with

hasn't he displayed many things onstage, rarely or never seen before?

[Katooshu 3,179]

Kisenosato couldn't beat his mini-me Toyonoshima. How disappointing and predictably inconsistent.

Kisenosato consistently puts up solid ozeki numbers, which he's doing so far this tournament too. I think he's a victim of his own success, because now it seems like commentary on his performances is largely about how disappointing they are, even though he's quite arguably the 5th best rikishi in the world and performs as such.

[Kurikara 28]

I'm not a big fan of Hakuho but this dignity-discussion is getting out of hand. Let's give poor yokozuna a break and let them enjoy themselves a bit. Well, at least the ones that can do so...

[lackmaker 434]

Kisenosato couldn't beat his mini-me Toyonoshima. How disappointing and predictably inconsistent.

Kisenosato consistently puts up solid ozeki numbers, which he's doing so far this tournament too. I think he's a victim of his own success, because now it seems like commentary on his performances is largely about how disappointing they are, even though he's quite arguably the 5th best rikishi in the world and performs as such.

It's true. And part of the phenomena whereby any competitor who achieves a level of success is expected to carry on indefinitely. As though there is no limit to how far they can go. Kisenosato does well to maintain the position he's reached.

[Seijakuzan 59]

Why do I get the feeling that if Hakuho wins this yusho, he will announce his retirement during the post-yusho interview? After he wins his bout and then sits on the floor next to the dohyo, he generally has a neutral look on his face. This basho seems to me to be noticeably different. The first two days, he had a peculiar look on his face, almost disturbed-looking. After the first two days, he still looked like he had a lot on his mind. But yesterday after his bout with Goeido, he sat on the floor with a strange, bittersweet look on his face, almost as if he was reminiscing. I watched the live broadcast on TV Japan. The cameraman lingered for a very long time on Hakuho's face. It was awash with emotion. There were obviously a lot of thoughts and feelings occurring simultaneously. It almost seemed like he was reflecting on his whole career or life itself. I do not believe this had anything whatsoever to do with his bout with Goeido.

Hakuho's face has always been very expressive, which can at times be frightening. At other times, his vulnerability can be moving. His happiness a joy to witness. But to see him lost in thought and close to tears as he sat next to the dohyo after his bout yesterday, made me wonder if a life-changing event in his life was about to occur. An event connected with sumo.

There are those, perhaps, who know what is really going on. They can say that I am wrong, which I may very well be. They can be dismissive and say that I am being merely speculative. Perhaps so. There are those who don't know, who can say the same things about what I am writing here. Maybe you are right. But being kyujo for most of the Aki basho gave him plenty of time to think hard about his present life and focus on his future. He had the luxury of time away from the dohyo to think and thinking can result in a change in priorities or direction.

Let's see what happens.................

You may be onto something. The look on his face and the sweep of his right hand after every match is telling. Little things like body language mean a lot.

It comes across as a little tin-foil-hat-y, but you know what, I believe I also agree. What is there left for Hakuho to prove? He's just playing with his food at this point.

If he were acting surly or pissy, I'd be wondering if his wife was having another miscarriage or something along those lines, but I'm not seeing any anger of any sorts.

[dingo 1,212]

Why do I get the feeling that if Hakuho wins this yusho, he will announce his retirement during the post-yusho interview? After he wins his bout and then sits on the floor next to the dohyo, he generally has a neutral look on his face. This basho seems to me to be noticeably different. The first two days, he had a peculiar look on his face, almost disturbed-looking. After the first two days, he still looked like he had a lot on his mind. But yesterday after his bout with Goeido, he sat on the floor with a strange, bittersweet look on his face, almost as if he was reminiscing. I watched the live broadcast on TV Japan. The cameraman lingered for a very long time on Hakuho's face. It was awash with emotion. There were obviously a lot of thoughts and feelings occurring simultaneously. It almost seemed like he was reflecting on his whole career or life itself. I do not believe this had anything whatsoever to do with his bout with Goeido.

Hakuho's face has always been very expressive, which can at times be frightening. At other times, his vulnerability can be moving. His happiness a joy to witness. But to see him lost in thought and close to tears as he sat next to the dohyo after his bout yesterday, made me wonder if a life-changing event in his life was about to occur. An event connected with sumo.

There are those, perhaps, who know what is really going on. They can say that I am wrong, which I may very well be. They can be dismissive and say that I am being merely speculative. Perhaps so. There are those who don't know, who can say the same things about what I am writing here. Maybe you are right. But being kyujo for most of the Aki basho gave him plenty of time to think hard about his present life and focus on his future. He had the luxury of time away from the dohyo to think and thinking can result in a change in priorities or direction.

Let's see what happens.................

You may be onto something. The look on his face and the sweep of his right hand after every match is telling. Little things like body language mean a lot.

It comes across as a little tin-foil-hat-y, but you know what, I believe I also agree. What is there left for Hakuho to prove? He's just playing with his food at this point.

If he were acting surly or pissy, I'd be wondering if his wife was having another miscarriage or something along those lines, but I'm not seeing any anger of any sorts.

Well, not that it's something that he needs to prove but Hakuho has passingly mentioned that he'd like to do a dohyo-iri at the Tokyo olympics. Not sure if that was just a fleeting thought for him or was he serious, but I have no doubt that barring serious injury he would last until then.

About today's bout -- I freely admit that usually I would be inclined to criticize any yokozuna for a henka, but today was just way too extraordinary and way too funny to be upset about. I think Hakuho should be allowed this kind of experimentation with many different and rare techniques because he simply is pretty much the only one who can pull it off. So yeah I agree with everyone who got a good chuckle out of his nekodamashi

[Treblemaker 254]

You know how, at parties, you might crack a joke with one of the super-serious people who are there, and because they don't get the joke, you lead them down greener pastures, have more fun with them (at their expense) until you finally have to break the news that you were kidding all along. Well, that was Hakuho and Tochiozan. I think Ozan is still looking for his marbles. That was fun!

[orandashoho 720]

I have news for you: while this all may be just a bit of sporting fun to the one playing the joke (and his friends), it is no fun at all for the one who is the butt of these jokes. Just like at those parties.

[Monnodo 60]

You either die a Hakuho or live long enough to see yourself become the Asashoryu. Allthough to be fair Asashoryu usually was more agressive-not sportsman like than this Hakuho tongue in cheek style.

It was very weird. Flawless in execution, no doubt... but it is so unlike him. I mean, he gave extra shoves before, he complained about the shinpan but these were fluke of the moment things, this by no means was... It was very weird. Maybe he was pissed that people thought he completly henkaed Yoshikaze and was like "I am gonna show what it looks like when I do something like that". Very weird. And on a personal note a bit sad. What ever he wanted to prove here did not make him look good. Whatever he will do, he will go down in history as the greatest Yokozuna no matter what people here argue about other Yokozuna having tougher opponents etc. Doing schoolyard catch moves is unworthy of his own accomplishments.

[Kintamayama 44,639]

Interesting read. I don't want to be the stick in the mud, but most of us are fans for a reason-mainly, that sumo is straightforward without the showiness of other sports. Of course there are clowns along the way, but since before we all were here, sumo has had its traditions. One of the main ones is that a Yokozuna is a Yokozuna. And if I have to explain what that means, well, not good. The stronger and more respected the Yokozuna, he is expected to handle himself like one ON THE DOHYO. You can scoff and sneer and cough and cheer, it won't change anything. Not only the elders were pissed, the fans were totally pissed as well.

Of course you may say you don't give a hoot but this is one of the foundations of this particular sport. Hakuhou is the greatest there ever was. BECAUSE of that, he has no reason to clown around for whatever reason. It's beneath him and beneath sumo. I can give you hundreds of examples from your favorite other sports but I don't know what they are so I won't. I personally and privately have no issue with all of this, but my love of sumo and my wish for it not to change wins every time.

We go on like this, we end up with WWF..

Edited November 17, 2015 by Kintamayama

[wuli 67]

thanks, kinta

i can accept this as the final word on the topic

[luispereira 383]

well...I think many of us like to see tochiozan get trolled:D

[Jakusotsu 5,869]

well...I think many of us like to see tochiozan get trolled:D

Sure. And there are just as many who don't.

[luispereira 383]

well...I think many of us like to see tochiozan get trolled:D

Sure. And there are just as many who don't.

ye, for sure.. regarding the bout...I just can't figure out what was that about, hope someone posts here if hakuho says something about that..

[maruko 0]

Interesting read. I don't want to be the stick in the mud, but most of us are fans for a reason-mainly, that sumo is straightforward without the showiness of other sports. […]

Kinta is absolutely right, of course. Still, I had today the clear impression that Hakuho has completely run out of expletives to give, and that Sumojoann might be onto something...

Why do I get the feeling that if Hakuho wins this yusho, he will announce his retirement during the post-yusho interview? […]

[Kishinoyama 582]

I know their has been some talk of Hakuho retiring after this tournament and maybe he will. I'm just curious what others think about him staying in sumo. I personally think he will not stay in sumo and with what happened today, it makes me think that now more than ever.

[Kintamayama 44,639]

well...I think many of us like to see tochiozan get trolled:D

Sure. And there are just as many who don't.

ye, for sure.. regarding the bout...I just can't figure out what was that about, hope someone posts here if hakuho says something about that..

"I don't know. It happened in a split-second. so maybe the spectators thought I moved to the side. If you look at the replay you can say that this kind of thing, this kind of technique, exists.." In the dressing room later, he showed everyone how he did it by clapping his hands again.

[luispereira 383]

well...I think many of us like to see tochiozan get trolled:D

Sure. And there are just as many who don't.

ye, for sure.. regarding the bout...I just can't figure out what was that about, hope someone posts here if hakuho says something about that..

"I don't know. It happened in a split-second. so maybe the spectators thought I moved to the side. If you look at the replay you can say that this kind of thing, this kind of technique, exists.." In the dressing room later, he showed everyone how he did it by clapping his hands again.

thanks...could he be bored? in the sense that he done it all already? let's see what happens in the near future...

[Irakusamaru 77]

On his Twitter feed, he said that he wanted to do it once.

[bettega 431]

For good or bad we're seeing history again with Hakuho

[d_golem 213]

For newbies to the sport like myself, you read about these unorthodox methods used by retired unorthodox rikishi like Mainoumi on the internet and thought reasonably that you would never see them used again in a bout. Then BAM! the usually orthodox dai-Yokozuna used it with perfect execution TWICE in a bout, added a pat and a knowing smile, all I can say is "Thank you Hakuho!" for giving us such a delicious piece of sumo history in our lifetime.

[Gurowake 4,011]

Kisenosato couldn't beat his mini-me Toyonoshima. How disappointing and predictably inconsistent.

Kisenosato consistently puts up solid ozeki numbers, which he's doing so far this tournament too. I think he's a victim of his own success, because now it seems like commentary on his performances is largely about how disappointing they are, even though he's quite arguably the 5th best rikishi in the world and performs as such.

The main problem is not that he's the 4th or 5th best rikishi, but the best Japanese rikishi.

[Katooshu 3,179]

4th best, 5th best, best Japanese rikishi......whatever it is I've grown tired of how negative the commentary about him is when performs as well as he does. I understand that he was seen as a Japanese hope and hasn't turned out the way some thought he might, but I think people should've stopped setting such lofty expectations for him a while ago and instead just take him for what he is: a solid ozeki who consistently puts up good numbers while falling short of the highest-tier.

[bettega 431]

Kisenosato couldn't beat his mini-me Toyonoshima. How disappointing and predictably inconsistent.

Kisenosato consistently puts up solid ozeki numbers, which he's doing so far this tournament too. I think he's a victim of his own success, because now it seems like commentary on his performances is largely about how disappointing they are, even though he's quite arguably the 5th best rikishi in the world and performs as such.

The main problem is not that he's the 4th or 5th best rikishi, but the best Japanese rikishi.

Goeido is a better Sekiwake tha Kise!

[specialweek 2 136]

I will be interested to hear what Mainoumi thought of this.

And they have jungyo provincial tours to try this move.

Sumo's popularity is at a high level right now.

If Hakuho hangs it up after this basho it will take time to recover as always

when a champion departs the scene.