Basho Talk - Nagoya 2015 +++ Spoiler alert! +++

[torquato 1,075]

I find it weird that Hakuhō is basically telling Kyokutenhō to retire.

Did he? I thought Kyokutenhou told Hakuhou that he will retire (as anybody else of the inner circle) and that Hakuhou was willing to pay him the respect that he deserves after that long career. Hakuho just gave him the chance to enjoy as much as possible of his last active day and be put into the spotlight as much as possible.

[Benevolance 2,534]

Man, that's 35 yuusho for Hak. He might be having to work a bit more for the wins, but 40 yuusho suddenly doesn't seem unreasonable...

[kuroimori 1,634]

Looking forward to the sanyaku return of Tochinoshin and Aoiyama.Yoshikaze Jun-Yusho!!

Not sure if Aoiyama will be ranked at komusubi at the Aki basho, because of the guy you mentioned in your following sentence - and Okinoumi should also leapfrog Aoiyama banzukewise.

[ScottyJoyJrBebe 97]

Looking forward to the sanyaku return of Tochinoshin and Aoiyama.Yoshikaze Jun-Yusho!!

Not sure if Aoiyama will be ranked at komusubi at the Aki basho, because of the guy you mentioned in your following sentence - and Okinoumi should also leapfrog Aoiyama banzukewise.

You know, as much as it would seem to short change Aoiyama, I would welcome a Komusubi return for Yoshikaze. At 33 years old, its a great achievement. I was honestly eyeing Okinoumi as M1W, to Yoshikaze's M1E. So, I believe you see it as Yoshikaze K1W, Okinoumi M1E, Aoiyama M1W. That looks good as well.

[Shikona 171]

If you want to see a well-done henka, you must look at the feet rather than whatever arms and shoulders might be delivering a glancing blow as the rikshi slides past. A half-second into their bout, Terunofuji has taken one step forward, foot just across the white line, toes pointed forward. Kotoshogiku has planted his first step more than a foot to the side of the lines, and his trailing foot is just about to slide in that direction as well, toes pointed sideways. That is a henka, and a nice one at that, on a par with Harumafuji's. If you are a fan of this tactic (as I am), why not say so instead of decrying "dirty henkas" and then trying to explain why your favorite rikshi's moves are not henkas?

If you want to see someone deliver a full-on tachi-ai, and then move to the side, look at Hakuho vs Kotoshogiku from the May basho. When they come together, Kakuho's feet are pointing forward. After he takes the charge, while Kotoshogiku is in the process of thrusting forward again, he then steps to the side. But this is not what Harumafuji does, and not what Kotoshogiku did today.

[808morgan 814]

I really could care less

*couldn’t care less

Sorry, but that really annoys me.

Having watched Jason’s (I think that’s his name…) coverage of the Kotoshōgiku–Terunofuji bout, I don’t believe Terunofuji was in on it. He gave a really angry stare at Kotoshōgiku.

I find it weird that Hakuhō is basically telling Kyokutenhō to retire.

Yeah its strange Kyokutenho hasn't made up him mind and Hakuho sends flowers.... And Terunofuji slipped.

[Gurowake 4,154]

It looked to me like Terunofuji slipped. His left foot slipped on the dohyo instead of holding firm, and he could no longer support his weight. That's all that happened.

The looks on their faces beforehand made me think they were both regretting what they were about to do. As much as I thought it was a bad sign at the time, it might have just been Terunofuji thinking "it's awful that I have to be the one to give the final loss" and 'Giku thinking "My choice of tactics will bring me shame.", as opposed to (respectively) "I can't believe I have to lose to this guy" and "I'm ashamed of having to get my last win by my opponent letting up."

[Seijakuzan 59]

If you want to see a well-done henka, you must look at the feet rather than whatever arms and shoulders might be delivering a glancing blow as the rikshi slides past. A half-second into their bout, Terunofuji has taken one step forward, foot just across the white line, toes pointed forward. Kotoshogiku has planted his first step more than a foot to the side of the lines, and his trailing foot is just about to slide in that direction as well, toes pointed sideways. That is a henka, and a nice one at that, on a par with Harumafuji's. If you are a fan of this tactic (as I am), why not say so instead of decrying "dirty henkas" and then trying to explain why your favorite rikshi's moves are not henkas?

If you want to see someone deliver a full-on tachi-ai, and then move to the side, look at Hakuho vs Kotoshogiku from the May basho. When they come together, Kakuho's feet are pointing forward. After he takes the charge, while Kotoshogiku is in the process of thrusting forward again, he then steps to the side. But this is not what Harumafuji does, and not what Kotoshogiku did today.

More than a foot?? Just look at the gifs posted after you - it's inches - and still almost exactly lined up from where his left foot started. Does it stop being called a henka if the feet stay inside of that imaginary line? What about when they go backwards or one twists to the side, yet stay inside the line? This argument is getting ridiculous. Look at their heads recoiling from the collision, and Giku's right arm going towards the belt. Clever idea from Giku, unfortunate or intentional slip by Terunofuji.

Also, Harumafuji's not-henka has him going straight for the back of the belt and ejecting them forward. The positioning of Giku's left hand tells me he was going to go for the belt and push him from the side, but then the gamble paid off and he ended up just having to push him straight down.

​

Edited July 27, 2015 by Seijakuzan

[WAKATAKE 2,759]

http://www.nikkansports.com/battle/sumo/news/1513748.html

While in Japanese, Kyokutenho has officially announced his retirement as an active rikishi. And he will now be known as Oshima Oyakata. Nothing stated about whether or not Oshima beya will be revived yet.

[inhashi 2,363]

Ex-Kobo needs to vacate Wakanosato's Nishiiwa kabu first, that probably accounts at least in part for his delay in retiring officially.

Per JSA, the current Nishiiwa kabu has just now become vacant. Former Kobo now holds Otowayama kabu once owned by the late Takanonami. Quite a bit of movement going on atm.

Edited July 27, 2015 by inhashi

[yorikiried by fate 2,038]

Good gifs. I still haven't seen the bout, but after watching the gifs I was fooled for a moment and thought the outcome was flukish but legitimate. Only after watching for a while, I realized that the second gif clearly shows that the forward momentum of both was deliberately slowed before contact. In other words, it's not Geek's oomph that took out Tf. On the contrary, Tf is conveniently forgetting to move his right foot while moving his forehead (eyes closed, knowing what will happen) to the Geek's shoulder. The step with the left foot goes wide, slipslip, hurray.

This is what I see there. Not the worst exihibition sumo (hello Baruto!), thus it'll do.

Edited July 27, 2015 by yorikiried by fate

[grigorian 10]

Ichinojo - This was an embarassment. He's completely lost and I think he has so many people telling him what to do that he doesn't know anymore. Something's going on mentally. He was pathetic this basho and I'm just amazed how bad he has gotten. Hak needs to slap him more.

Osunaarashi - Really good basho from him. He fought great for being injured but I think he's still stuck with Tochinoshin/Aoiyama and crew as being a big guy with not much technique. Remember, his highest ranked match was against Aoiyama.

I don´t think embarassment be the most proper word. Let´s face it, Ichinojo is 22 years old. I was afraid of darknes being 22. He is going to be great in time.

Great basho from Osunaarashi, but, I´m sorry he uses the "tsuppari" on a very "slappi" way. I think he don´t need to use this technique to win his bouts.

[Highway 46]

Oh hold on a bit now - Aoiyama should get the Komusubi slot....yes Yoshi and Oki did great, but Aoiyama had to fight pretty much every yokozuna and ozeki before getting his kk...

Edited July 27, 2015 by Highway

[dingo 1,479]

Oh hold on a bit now - Aoiyama should get the Komusubi slot....yes Yoshi and Oki did great, but Aoiyama had to fight pretty much every yokozuna and ozeki before getting his kk...

But what counts is not who he faced, just the rank and number of wins. Besides, he lost to all ozeki except Kisenosato, so it's not like he did very well against them anyway.

[Asashosakari 20,273]

But what counts is not who he faced, just the rank and number of wins. Besides, he lost to all ozeki except Kisenosato, so it's not like he did very well against them anyway.

And if he had beaten Okinoumi, their records would now be 9-6 and 10-5 (and Aoiyama would be going to sanyaku indeed), not 8-7 and 11-4. ;-)

[Gurowake 4,154]

Oh hold on a bit now - Aoiyama should get the Komusubi slot....yes Yoshi and Oki did great, but Aoiyama had to fight pretty much every yokozuna and ozeki before getting his kk...

I completely agree with this sentiment, and if I was in charge of things I would prioritize all KKs obtained while facing a full slate of Y/O for promotion to sanyaku. But at least back in Haru 2013, they promoted Okinoumi from M7e with 11 wins over an 8-7 M2w, which I personally find absurd, but fits if they run it by the numbers. The only thing they ignore the numbers for is to ensure a promotion for an 8-7 (or better) M1e as can be seen in Natsu 2014 where such a record from Aoiyama got him promoted over Ikioi with an 11-4 M5w.

If they follow the same rules, Tochinoshin has first "dibs" on one open spot, and then Okinoumi has the best rank/record numbers and takes the second. Yoshikaze, despite better rank/record numbers than Tochinoshin, does not get a spot as it doesn't merit a creation of an extra one, and Tochinoshin is guaranteed one by virtue of a KK at M1e.

[Asojima 2,874]

But at least back in Haru 2013, they promoted Okinoumi from M7e with 11 wins over an 8-7 M2w, which I personally find absurd, ...

But in 2013, Okinoumi was still getting some of the Endo poster child treatment.

[Asashosakari 20,273]

But at least back in Haru 2013, they promoted Okinoumi from M7e with 11 wins over an 8-7 M2w, which I personally find absurd, ...

But in 2013, Okinoumi was still getting some of the Endo poster child treatment.

Yup, and besides, even paint-by-numbers does get ignored occasionally in favour of the joijin guy.

But seriously, three more wins from only 2.5 ranks down is simply impossible to ignore, no matter how different the schedules were. The KK scale only goes from 8 to 15, three wins is a huge difference in performance.

[Gurowake 4,154]

But at least back in Haru 2013, they promoted Okinoumi from M7e with 11 wins over an 8-7 M2w, which I personally find absurd, ...

But in 2013, Okinoumi was still getting some of the Endo poster child treatment.

Yup, and besides, even paint-by-numbers does get ignored occasionally in favour of the joijin guy.

Perhaps it's just that any record worthy of Komusubi promotion by numbers from the joi is prioritized. Obviously that doesn't guarantee one (see Tochinoshin), but gives them priority over non-joi. So a mere 8-7 from M2 isn't good enough, but a 9-6 is.

[Asashosakari 20,273]

Perhaps it's just that any record worthy of Komusubi promotion by numbers from the joi is prioritized. Obviously that doesn't guarantee one (see Tochinoshin), but gives them priority over non-joi. So a mere 8-7 from M2 isn't good enough, but a 9-6 is.

It's not that simple, either: Natsu 2010, Haru 2009. Edited July 27, 2015 by Asashosakari

[Kintamayama 47,302]

Tochinoshin is guaranteed one by virtue of a KK at M1e.

As we have seen in the near past, Tochinoshin is guaranteed NOTHING.

[ScottyJoyJrBebe 97]

Tochinoshin is guaranteed one by virtue of a KK at M1e.

As we have seen in the near past, Tochinoshin is guaranteed NOTHING.

wouldn't that be the BIGGEST injustice? is that possible? for Tochinoshin to be held at M1e with a 8-7?

I'm someone who is waiting for the final day of the Natsu 2017 basho, to be decided by a 3 way playoff between Yokozuna East Terunofuji, Yokozuna East 2 Ichinojo and Ozeki East Tochinoshin. Also, Aminishiki wins his eighth Gino-sho.

(Now THAT'S wishful thinking)

[bettega 433]

About Teru and Giku, I beg to differ. I watched it aboute ten or eleven times inYouTube with 0.25 speed and I think that henka from Giku really gets Teru (and a little foot slip).

No OBSC to me.

Edited July 28, 2015 by bettega

[Jakusotsu 6,401]

That's the beauty of the OBSC: its existence can neither be proven nor disproved by only watching the bouts.

[ALAKTORN 346]

That's the beauty of the OBSC: its existence can neither be proven nor disproved by only watching the bouts.

I’d say its existence has already been proven by previous bouts. It’s just harder to say for other bouts.