Basho Talk - Nagoya 2015 +++ Spoiler alert! +++

[Tsubame 378]

Of course it was a "semi-henka" a la Harumafuji. Just watch his left foot. The first thing he does was to move his left foot out.

[Gernobono 467]

oh come on...anybody watching ozumo for more than 3 basho knew shoki would win

the way it was executed noone got hurt...so all is ok.....

[Asashosakari 20,260]

The news call the intai of the 2 veterans definite, but both are said to need some time to accept and announce it.

NHK showed Kyokutenho at the Tomozuna-beya party, unable to speak.

Ex-Kobo needs to vacate Wakanosato's Nishiiwa kabu first, that probably accounts at least in part for his delay in retiring officially.

[WAKATAKE 2,759]

The news call the intai of the 2 veterans definite, but both are said to need some time to accept and announce it.

NHK showed Kyokutenho at the Tomozuna-beya party, unable to speak.

Ex-Kobo needs to vacate Wakanosato's Nishiiwa kabu first, that probably accounts at least in part for his delay in retiring officially.

I notice on SumoDB that Asahikuni still owns the Oshima kabu. Does that mean Kyokutenho will get it once he retires?

I also noticed that neither Kyokutenho or Wakanosato have officially announced their retirements at this time. To me it seems rare that this happens, I am sure that Wakanosato does not want to wrestle in the makushita, and his record makes it pretty much everything short of official that he will be ranked in makushita next basho.

[inhashi 2,363]

The JSA stated that Kyokutenho has already applied for the succession of Oshima kabu and that he will hold an official press announcement as early as tomorrow.

[teo_heel 33]

oh come on...anybody watching ozumo for more than 3 basho knew shoki would win

the way it was executed noone got hurt...so all is ok.....

That's what I hate the most in that situation... no sportsmanship at all.

[Asashosakari 20,260]

I also noticed that neither Kyokutenho or Wakanosato have officially announced their retirements at this time. To me it seems rare that this happens, I am sure that Wakanosato does not want to wrestle in the makushita, and his record makes it pretty much everything short of official that he will be ranked in makushita next basho.

Back when the oyakata successorship issues were still more complicated, it wasn't that unusual that retirements would be delayed for days or even weeks. Plenty of long-time sekitori ended up with a makushita position as their final printed ranking, although they didn't actually compete in makushita of course.

[inhashi 2,363]

Much loved by many, Wakanosato (Sankei news) expressed his desire to stay active but "must accept reality". States he "will not remain active while ranked in makushita, but want a little more time to decide".

(video clip), and Tenho with yusho victor Hakuho (photo) Edited July 26, 2015 by inhashi

[Kotogouryuu 143]

That's what I hate the most in that situation... no sportsmanship at all.

That's... that's pretty much exactly the opposite of the situation. It's sportmanship and comraderie, not kicking a guy when he's down, knowing that you'll get the same treatment.

Althought I'm not convinced Terunofuji was even in on it. That was a clever move by Giku.

[teo_heel 33]

That's what I hate the most in that situation... no sportsmanship at all.

That's... that's pretty much exactly the opposite of the situation. It's sportmanship and comraderie, not kicking a guy when he's down, knowing that you'll get the same treatment.

Althought I'm not convinced Terunofuji was even in on it. That was a clever move by Giku.

That's stupid... you should beat your opponents for sure... that bout was not a real fight...

[Rob S. 42]

Kotoshogiku... I'm so sorry to say that, but I hate him so much... I don't hate tachiai henka, but that bout makes me sick... henka by Kotoshogiku shows everything. He's not an ozeki. He's nothing for me from now. I want him intai from now. He shouldn't be in Ozumo since that bout. That was so unprofessional.

Payback's a bitch.

https://www.youtube.com/embed/_4Luxs8CnbI?rel=0&start=590&end=617

[teo_heel 33]

Kotoshogiku... I'm so sorry to say that, but I hate him so much... I don't hate tachiai henka, but that bout makes me sick... henka by Kotoshogiku shows everything. He's not an ozeki. He's nothing for me from now. I want him intai from now. He shouldn't be in Ozumo since that bout. That was so unprofessional.

Payback's a bitch.

https://www.youtube.com/embed/_4Luxs8CnbI?rel=0&start=590&end=617

Holy... I forgot about that...

[Asashosakari 20,260]

The only way that bout today could have lacked "sportsmanship" would be if Terunofuji had done a henka.

Henka by rikishi who feel they're in a desperate situation is so commonplace as to be barely noteworthy. I'm pretty sure we've seen at least 10 this basho alone. Heck, yusho-deciding bouts have been won by henka. If that's what turns your opinion about an ozeki or anybody else, you're going to have a lot of opinion swings in your future sumo-watching.

Edited July 26, 2015 by Asashosakari

[teo_heel 33]

The only way that bout today could have lacked "sportsmanship" would be if Terunofuji had done a henka.

Henka by rikishi who feel they're in a desperate situation is so commonplace as to be barely noteworthy. I'm pretty sure we've seen at least 10 this basho alone. Heck, yusho-deciding bouts have been won by henka. If that's what turns your opinion about an ozeki or anybody else, you're going to have a lot of opinion swings in your future sumo-watching.

Maybe I just hate Kotoshogiku, that's why I'm so frustrated...

[Kintamayama 47,269]

oh come on...anybody watching ozumo for more than 3 basho knew shoki would win

the way it was executed noone got hurt...so all is ok.....

I wish you would make these announcements BEFORE the bouts in question-then we can see how many times you were right, and how many not.. There were so many bouts that I, as someone who has seen not 3 bashos but maybe 4, was sure it would go one way, but didn't..

[ALAKTORN 346]

I really could care less

*couldn’t care less

Sorry, but that really annoys me.

Having watched Jason’s (I think that’s his name…) coverage of the Kotoshōgiku–Terunofuji bout, I don’t believe Terunofuji was in on it. He gave a really angry stare at Kotoshōgiku.

I find it weird that Hakuhō is basically telling Kyokutenhō to retire.

Edited July 26, 2015 by ALAKTORN

[rzombie1988 159]

Thought the basho was good overall. It was nice to see some people like Terunofujin,Tochiozan, Amuru, Osuna, Takekaze and others stepping up and putting out good performances.

My usual overall thought on the competitors:

Hakuho - Hak looked good. Not as good as he used to look but he felt in control for most of this basho. He should be able to win or get close to winning the next few with no problems.

Kakuryu - He looked good but he didn't do anything to really super impress me. The Ozeki's were non-factors except Terunofuji and he didn't beat Hakuho, though he gave him a good run. I still think he is below Harumafuji and Hakuho and I really don't see him winning a title again unless Hakuho gets injured. He has improved from about two years ago, but he is always 1-2 losses or more off Hakuho.

Kisenosato - He's going to get 11 wins at best and less when he's not at his best. He never looked great this time around and Terunofuji is quickly taking over his spot as the top Ozeki. It's hard to see him winning a title at this rate with Kak and Teruno improving, Hak still being Hak and hopefully Harumafuji returning soon.

Terunofuji - Great basho for him. As soon as he figures out how to beat Hak/Kak, he's going to be a Yokozuna. He's just so big.

Kotoshogiku - His henka was embarassing and a farce. He should be ashamed. He avoided the demotion today but it's coming. He hasn't won 10 since exactly 1 year ago. He'll go makekoshi next time around.

Goeido - Terunofuji was his only real impressive win. He's really far gone from his 12 wins last year. It's hard to see him going anywhere right now.

Tochiozan - Looked really good for a while there, then he fell off. He can be Ozeki and maybe even win a title if he can beat Yokozuna consistently. Even just being able to beat Kakuryu may be enough if he's lucky.

Ichinojo - This was an embarassment. He's completely lost and I think he has so many people telling him what to do that he doesn't know anymore. Something's going on mentally. He was pathetic this basho and I'm just amazed how bad he has gotten. Hak needs to slap him more.

Tochinoshin - He may be the strongest sumo wrestler right now, but he needs to stop relying on power if he wants to go places. As I said last basho, I wanna see him move more, work the belt and try some different techniques. He can be Ozeki or maybe even Yokozuna, but he's gotta improve.

Aoiyama - He's a better Gagamaru and there's no reason he couldn't be Terunofuji if he worked on his technique. But his reliance on pushing forward is going to keep him where he is at and eventually push him down.

Osunaarashi - Really good basho from him. He fought great for being injured but I think he's still stuck with Tochinoshin/Aoiyama and crew as being a big guy with not much technique. Remember, his highest ranked match was against Aoiyama.

Looking forward to next time around and hoping that we get all three yokozuna's in action.

[Masumasumasu 902]

The only way that bout today could have lacked "sportsmanship" would be if Terunofuji had done a henka.

Henka by rikishi who feel they're in a desperate situation is so commonplace as to be barely noteworthy. I'm pretty sure we've seen at least 10 this basho alone. Heck, yusho-deciding bouts have been won by henka. If that's what turns your opinion about an ozeki or anybody else, you're going to have a lot of opinion swings in your future sumo-watching.

Maybe I just hate Kotoshogiku, that's why I'm so frustrated...

If you met the man you would not say that. He is a kind person.

[dingo 1,478]

Kotoshogiku - His henka was embarassing and a farce. He should be ashamed. He avoided the demotion today but it's coming. He hasn't won 10 since exactly 1 year ago. He'll go makekoshi next time around.

What henka? He hit Terunofuji full on at tachiai.

[ScreechingOwl 343]

I thought the Kotoshogiku - Terunofuji match went exactly as expected. Terunofuji couldn't have gotten to the sand any quicker than he did. If he looked angrily at Kotoshogiku afterwords it's probably for having been put in the position where he had to lose to save a rikishi who simply isn't ozeki quality anymore, whatever his technical rank. I don't mean to be too hard on Kotoshogiku: in a sport filled with underachievers (Tochiozan, Ichinojo (although he's still very young and can turn it around), Goeido, and the list goes on) he's been an overachiever. But whether due to injuries or age, he just doesn't cut it at ozeki anymore.

On a happier/sadder note, it was very moving to see Kyokutenho's final bout. (I presume it's his final one.) Sad to see him go out with so few victories, and moving to see his tears after the bout. It was good of NHK to also show his tears after he won the yusho - fitting counterparts.

To recap: Kyokutenho spent his first 17 years and 6 months before sumo, and he's spent his last 23 years and 4 months in sumo. He was in the first group of Mongolians to come over: what a long, strange (and successful) trip that's been. And he won a yusho. He should retire from Makuuchi. He doesn't need to slog through a few more basho at 41 getting beaten by 20 somethings. He's one of the cleverest rikishi and I'm sure he'll make an excellent oyakata. Thanks for all the memories, Kyokutenho.

[krindel 688]

The problem with the Terunofuji / Kotoshogiku situation is that when the stats are so overwhelming there's no point in arguing the matter. Maybe Terunofuji threw the bout, or maybe he lost it fair and square, but the fact still remains that no one would have reasonably bet money on Kotoshogiku losing that bout. When the first kadoban Ozeki gets demoted by losing his final bout, that might change, but until then, all senshuraku bouts like that are going to be treated with very reasonable suspicion, if not outright derision.

On the really historic issue of this basho, though, I am really sorry to see Kyokutenho go, but when its your time to go, its best to deal with it with dignity, and I think he has more than enough of that. He had an admirable career, and I am quite certain he'll remain an inspirational figure as an oyakata for the years to come.

[Kintamayama 47,269]

Kotoshogiku - His henka was embarassing and a farce. He should be ashamed. He avoided the demotion today but it's coming. He hasn't won 10 since exactly 1 year ago. He'll go makekoshi next time around.

What henka? He hit Terunofuji full on at tachiai.

Terunofuji himself begs to differ. "Kotoshougiku? I didn't think he would go there." As you know, these guys will never say anything outright publicly, but that is as outright as it gets. Terunofuji is young and in a zone of sorts. He would never throw a match, at least not at this point in his career.

Or at least I'd like to think so.. Or maybe he throws lighters.

[Gernobono 467]

oh come on...anybody watching ozumo for more than 3 basho knew shoki would win

the way it was executed noone got hurt...so all is ok.....

I wish you would make these announcements BEFORE the bouts in question-then we can see how many times you were right, and how many not.. There were so many bouts that I, as someone who has seen not 3 bashos but maybe 4, was sure it would go one way, but didn't..

is this some kind of joke?

i predicted the results even before "obsc" was called here first (see the whole thread linked above)

usually i make my predictions on the german forum or the german sumochat

and you can read those predictions in this forum, too

this basho ie, i predicted the hakuho yusho (easy one), the kakuryu-junyusho and the de-kadobanification of kotoshogiku on day 10 in a personal email-conversation with jakusotsu.....

btw; i do not like to make those predictions any more, because quite some members of the german sumoforum where like: "we do not want to here that....it takes all our interest in ozumo away"......and i thought most of the frequent posters/readers here know what i think about match-fixing after many postings to that topic.......

Edited July 26, 2015 by Gernobono

[ScottyJoyJrBebe 97]

Great basho, no sense retreading what everyone else has said. But:

Looking forward to the sanyaku return of Tochinoshin and Aoiyama.

Yoshikaze Jun-Yusho!!!

Choki-Ozan, now I GET IT.

Myogiru returns to Sekiwake, wonder if her will surprise as all next basho?

Ozeki East Terunofuji. The first step to the next step.

Kakuryu is proving to be anything but "Onokuni 2.0"

Hakuho= 35. All that talk about him retiring after last basho. Not even close to it.

[dingo 1,478]

Kotoshogiku - His henka was embarassing and a farce. He should be ashamed. He avoided the demotion today but it's coming. He hasn't won 10 since exactly 1 year ago. He'll go makekoshi next time around.

What henka? He hit Terunofuji full on at tachiai.

Terunofuji himself begs to differ. "Kotoshougiku? I didn't think he would go there." As you know, these guys will never say anything outright publicly, but that is as outright as it gets. Terunofuji is young and in a zone of sorts. He would never throw a match, at least not at this point in his career.

Or at least I'd like to think so.. Or maybe he throws lighters.

That wouldn't be the first time a loser is bitter about losing, especially if it's perceived as a not very dignified way of losing. That sounds like a changing-room comment right after the match when the loss was still weighing on his mind, but I don't think even Terunofuji himself can deny that Kotoshogiku did move forward at tachiai. And saying "I didn't think he would go there"... well, it's a kadoban ozeki 7-7 on senshuraku, what did he think?