Bunbukuchagama 701 Posted August 5, 2023 2 hours ago, Hankegami said: Well, perhaps not right now anymore, since we had the Sekiwake as virtually the top guys for most of 2023. Now we can hopefully get two nice Ozeki. Only time will tell. If Hakuoho won the yusho, it would have been seen more as a sign of magnitude of his talent rather than weakness of ozumo's top ranks; if Hokutofuji got it, it would be "absolute disaster, ozumo in disarray, cats and dogs living together". Hoshoryu winning is seen as "business as usual", the highest ranked healthy rikishi won and was promoted to Ozeki. What a difference a couple of bouts can make. 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Shikona 139 Posted August 6, 2023 3 hours ago, Bunbukuchagama said: What a difference a couple of bouts can make. Sure, that's sports in general. Straighten out a couple of field goals and the Buffalo Bills are a super bowl dynasty. Going forward, my expectation is as the I Ching would suggest. To paraphrase the opening of "The Romance of the Three Kingdoms"--the dohyo, having been dominated by the Ozeki, tends to a series of Maegashira yusho; the dohyo having seen the Maegashira rise, tends toward the resurgence of the Ozeki. 1 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Yarimotsu 548 Posted August 8, 2023 Found this while searching for GTB: 5 rikishi with double-digit wins at M13 or below is wholly unprecedented until last basho. Even allowing for the greatly expanded maegashira ranks of the 40s and 50s. https://sumodb.sumogames.de/Query.aspx?show_form=0&group_by=basho&having=2&form1_rank=m13-m30&form1_wins=>9 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Wakawakawaka 146 Posted August 8, 2023 (edited) Maybe I'm getting a bit too philosophical here, but I wonder if the number of consecutive basho in which something unprecedented has happened, is in itself unprecedented? Or perhaps there are so many variables in sumo that it if nothing unprecedented took place, that in itself would be unprecedented! Edited August 8, 2023 by Wakawakawaka 1 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Yarimotsu 548 Posted August 8, 2023 7 minutes ago, Wakawakawaka said: Maybe I'm getting a bit too philosophical here, but I wonder if the number of consecutive basho in which something unprecedented has happened, is in itself unprecedented? Or perhaps there are so many variables in sumo that it if nothing unprecedented took place, that in itself would be unprecedented! With just the sheer amount of statistical incidences we can track I'd be very surprised if a single basho had occurred with entirely precedented bouts, results and rankings. Nonetheless, I like to keep track of where we are leaving the comfort of repetition and familiarity. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Chiyotasuke 274 Posted August 12, 2023 (edited) On 30/06/2023 at 00:05, Kamitsuumi said: I don't think the yō-on (ゃゅょ) are usually counted as length (that is, mora length). In this case the longest shikona should go to former Daiechizen'ō (だいえちぜんおう), with 8: http://sumodb.sumogames.de/Rikishi.aspx?shikona=大越前王 Taking this into account, I compiled all the shikona with the length of 7. There are 52 as of today. Maybe they should take the cake for "the longest shikona": Agazumazakura Andōzakura Arashitenyū Asahibenten Azumaōshū Azumatenshō Daionizakura Daitominosato Dōnannohana Hattorizakura Hidehikonoshima Hokkainishiki/II Hokuyōzakura Kakuryūasahi Kongōzakura Kōtetsunishiki Kotohigashiyama Kotokashiwadani Kotokirigakubo Kotoōnojō Kototakenoue Kyūshūnishiki Matsuminenoyama Migikataagari Miyakomotoharu Miyakotenzan Nanyōnishiki Nanyōzakura Ōhayashiyama Ōkawagatake Ōkuniasahi Ōsunaarashi Ōtorigatake/II Oyaguranishiki Ōyamatoumi Ōyanagihara Ryūjinsakari Senshūmisaki Shinjōnishiki Shinshūnishiki Shiraishizakura Shōnannoumi Shōnanzakura Takachihonomine Tōshōnishiki Tsuruokanishiki Wakaōnehara Wakatoōhashi Watanabenishiki Watanabezakura Yamamotozakura Yatsushironishiki Hokkainishiki and Ōtorigatake each were used by 2 different rikishi, and the previous shikona of stablemates Agazumazakura and Shōnanzakura are also listed (Shiraishizakura and Hattorizakura). From the list above, 36 of them are the last/current shikona of rikishi, including 1 each of Hokkainishiki and Ōtorigatake. Another thing. The matchup with the longest shikona length combined was Daiechizenō vs Matsuminenoyama, with the length of 15 in Japanese. On the other hand, in Rōmaji, the longest is 28, provided this post still holds up On 21/01/2018 at 11:11, Asashosakari said: On 21/01/2018 at 10:37, Yukiarashi said: I don't know how these records would be kept, but Wakatomoharu-Takayoshitoshi had to break some kind of letters record in a bout. 12 vs 14? Nowhere near. As far as bouts covered by the DB go, the maximum appears to be 28 in 13 vs 15 and 14 vs 14 matchups. Edit: There's a longer matchup with 29 letters, brought up thanks to Yubinhaad's notice: Yatsushironishiki vs Kuriharayama Edited August 28, 2023 by Chiyotasuke Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Gurowake 4,012 Posted August 25, 2023 Gonoyama is one day older than Shonannoumi, and despite entering Ozumo at very different times, they debuted in Makuuchi the same tournament with the same record. 4 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Chiyotasuke 274 Posted August 28, 2023 (edited) Although I'm not sure if others will find this interesting, I just wanted to share it. I compiled* a list of 3 kanji shikona, each of which has a morae-length (on) of 1, 2, and 3 from first to last. Examples: Satōzakura - sa to-u za-ku-ra, Karyūtsukasa - ka ryu-u tsu-ka-sa I believe this "ascending" pattern is quite auspicious for rikishi, whether the shikona was chosen for that reason or not. Most of them include their hometown, surname or heya's conventional kanji. There are many that end with -nishiki (錦): Bizennishiki Chikumanishiki Haguronishiki Itōnishiki Kaōnishiki Katōnishiki Kiryūnishiki Koganenishiki Komatsunishiki Masagonishiki Mikasanishiki Mirainishiki Miyamanishiki Mogaminishiki Nayoronishiki Otarunishiki Seōnishiki Shihōnishiki Tanakanishiki Teshionishiki Tokachinishiki Toyamanishiki Tsugarunishiki Yahatanishiki Yashionishiki Zaōnishiki Ending with -z(s)akura: Katōzakura Mogamizakura Musashisakura Oyamazakura Satōzakura And all the others: Buzenhikari Goningakari Karyūtsukasa Kashimatsurugi Misugiyutaka Musashitaira Nihonyanagi Nozukitaira Satōasahi The only one that appeared in makuuchi was Zaōnishiki. Mogamizakura, Nihonyanagi (his actual surname), Oyamazakura and Mogaminishiki are still active under those shikona. * I did this very carefully and thoroughly, filtering hundreds of shikonas and looking up dictionary. Edited August 28, 2023 by Chiyotasuke 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Yubinhaad 11,594 Posted August 28, 2023 On 12/08/2023 at 09:09, Chiyotasuke said: Another thing. The matchup with the longest shikona length combined was Daiechizenō vs Matsuminenoyama, with the length of 15 in Japanese. On the other hand, in Rōmaji, the longest is 28, provided this post still holds up On 21/01/2018 at 03:11, Asashosakari said: On 21/01/2018 at 02:37, Yukiarashi said: I don't know how these records would be kept, but Wakatomoharu-Takayoshitoshi had to break some kind of letters record in a bout. 12 vs 14? Nowhere near. As far as bouts covered by the DB go, the maximum appears to be 28 in 13 vs 15 and 14 vs 14 matchups. A longer one was found later: On 28/11/2021 at 00:30, Asashosakari said: On 27/11/2021 at 17:08, Yubinhaad said: The longest romaji shikona I've seen in the database is a stonking 17 letters, Yatsushironishiki. Eek, and there's a 29-letter bout involving him that I missed back last time, vs. Kuriharayama. 34 minutes ago, Chiyotasuke said: Mogamizakura, Nihonyanagi (his actual surname) and Oyamazakura are still active under those shikona. Mogaminishiki as well. 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Faustonowaka 114 Posted August 29, 2023 Satonofuji is back in Jonokuchi after 27 years/163 basho 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Akinomaki 40,038 Posted September 8, 2023 (edited) This basho is the first time that 3 (or more) new juryo are from the sumo club of the same university - Nittaidai. Each graduated in a different year: Asakoryu 2021, Takahashi 2022, Onosato 2023 https://www.sponichi.co.jp/sports/news/2023/09/08/kiji/20230908s00005000624000c.html Edited September 8, 2023 by Akinomaki 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Yubinhaad 11,594 Posted September 8, 2023 On 29/08/2023 at 19:08, Faustonowaka said: Satonofuji is back in Jonokuchi after 27 years/163 basho And back on yumitori-shiki duty too - it's the first time that a Jonokuchi-ranked rikishi has done it. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Asashosakari 18,959 Posted September 12, 2023 Minanogawa is the only yokozuna in history (well, since 1927) with a positive balance of fusensho to fusenpai while holding the rank: Query 4 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Akinomaki 40,038 Posted September 12, 2023 (edited) On 08/09/2023 at 16:50, Yubinhaad said: And back on yumitori-shiki duty too - it's the first time that a Jonokuchi-ranked rikishi has done it. Not for long, Satonofuji only did it on day 1 and 2, now Yuki is doing it again https://mainichi.jp/articles/20230912/k00/00m/050/182000c Satonofuji suddenly got sick - he has a bout tomorrow, likely he won't appear Edited September 12, 2023 by Akinomaki 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Benihana 1,913 Posted September 12, 2023 Chiyosakae and Azumaryu will meet tomorrow, the first time since maezumo 2009.01. 5 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Yubinhaad 11,594 Posted September 13, 2023 19 hours ago, Akinomaki said: Not for long, Satonofuji only did it on day 1 and 2, now Yuki is doing it again https://mainichi.jp/articles/20230912/k00/00m/050/182000c Satonofuji suddenly got sick - he has a bout tomorrow, likely he won't appear Appeared and won, albeit with a henka which gained him the advantage. To me this seems more like what happened when Shohoryu started as yumitori-shiki performer, in which someone got their wires crossed and Kasugaryu was put on the torikumi-hyo for the first two days, then Shohoryu took over. With Terunofuji kyujo from the start here, maybe Yuki was supposed to continue all along but someone got it wrong and put Satonofuji in, and it was too late to stop the printing by the time someone noticed. Anyway, whatever the reason this was good news for Yuki as it means he won't share the record for fewest performances (post-1952), which was Unzenyama's six-day stint in the 1962 Hatsu basho. 1 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Reonito 1,384 Posted September 14, 2023 This is only the 17th time in the 6-basho era that there are no undefeated Makuuchi rikishi after 5 days. But it's the second time in the past year—previous instance was last November, when Abi won the yusho. There was a cluster of three in five basho in 1992, and another cluster of three in just over a year in 1997-98. 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Reonito 1,384 Posted September 15, 2023 Is this the first time we've had only twelve undefeated (3-0) rikishi in Makushita after 3 rounds of bouts, under something like the modern scheduling system? 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Chiyotasuke 274 Posted September 16, 2023 Like the pattern 5-7-5 of haikus, a shikona consisting of 3 kanji with stroke counts of 5-7-5 is what I focused on this time. I was able to find only one such shikona in the DB. It is 立村本 (Tatsumuramoto), which was just composed of his real name and heya's prefix. He did receive a proper shikona later on but was for only one basho. For fun, I made up a few shikona with this pattern using 5 stroke and 7 stroke kanji. Keep in mind, my Japanese and kanji knowledge are quite poor: 玉秀仙 Tamashūzen (jewel/Kataonami prefix, excellent, sage) 北見石 Kitamiishi (Kitami city, stone) 巨男広 Ōnankō (gigantic, man, wide) 白花弘 Shirohanahiro (white, flower, vast) - Like a haiku about nature 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Asashosakari 18,959 Posted September 16, 2023 19 hours ago, Reonito said: Is this the first time we've had only twelve undefeated (3-0) rikishi in Makushita after 3 rounds of bouts, under something like the modern scheduling system? Yup, I can't find another case either. Quite the amusing progression in this basho: One intai and 10 kyujo, so only 109 starters in makushita. One got knocked off in juryo, so just 54 rikishi at 1-0. Round 2 saw one guy lose in juryo and another against a sandanme opponent, so down from 54 to 26. And the same thing again in round 3, so down from 26 to 12. Basically the perfect storm of rikishi personal situations, scheduling decisions and bout results. 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Yamanashi 3,774 Posted September 16, 2023 (edited) 57 minutes ago, Asashosakari said: Yup, I can't find another case either. Quite the amusing progression in this basho: One intai and 10 kyujo, so only 109 starters in makushita. One got knocked off in juryo, so just 54 rikishi at 1-0. Round 2 saw one guy lose in juryo and another against a sandanme opponent, so down from 54 to 26. And the same thing again in round 3, so down from 26 to 12. Basically the perfect storm of rikishi personal situations, scheduling decisions and bout results. We've got one 4-0 already; at least one more needed to keep the string alive. Ten others are at 3-0 entering day 8; all are paired up for that day, so 5 will survive. That leaves 6 4-0 rikishi after Nakabi. EDIT: Now that I think of it, the "knockoff" format is supposed to hone down the ranks to get the top candidates, but not doing this on day 8 might have led to all 10 losing, an embarrassing outcome. Edited September 16, 2023 by Yamanashi I can't count Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Faustonowaka 114 Posted September 16, 2023 If Chiyoshoma doesn’t start winning soon, Kokonoe’s streak of having a rikishi in Makuuchi wil come to an end 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Yamanashi 3,774 Posted September 16, 2023 2 minutes ago, Faustonowaka said: If Chiyoshoma doesn’t start winning soon, Kokonoe’s streak of having a rikishi in Makuuchi wil come to an end 5 years ago this month, Kokonoe had 4 sekitori in Makuuchi and 2 in Juryo. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Sakura 1,480 Posted September 16, 2023 2 hours ago, Asashosakari said: And the same thing again in round 3, so down from 26 to 12. I haven't looked at the heya affiliations of the rikishi involved, so I'm making some assumptions here. 6 undefeated rikishi after round 4 and 3 after round 5. In round 6 that would leave us one all-Makushita undefeated pairing and one undefeated Makushitan against either a Sandname opponent or a 1 loss Makushitan. Assuming that seond bout is a coin flip we still have a 50% chance of having the usual winner takes all bout in round 7. Personally, I'm hoping round 7 involves a 7-0 v 6-1 opponent with the 1 loss rikishi winning and we end up with a playoff like in Hatsu 2016. 1 hour ago, Yamanashi said: EDIT: Now that I think of it, the "knockoff" format is supposed to hone down the ranks to get the top candidates, but not doing this on day 8 might have led to all 10 losing, an embarrassing outcome. The pairing up of rikishi who have the same record is standard. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Yamanashi 3,774 Posted September 16, 2023 13 minutes ago, Sakura said: The pairing up of rikishi who have the same record is standard. I'm not questioning that (in fact I know that). I just hadn't realized that the process guarantees there will be a nonzero number of unbeaten rikishi near the end of the basho. Everyone else probably did. That's all. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites