Gurowake

Trivia bits

Recommended Posts

1 hour ago, Asashosakari said:

I do believe that list is short of a few names.

And just from poking around that list, I found there were 3 basho in 2000 where Kotonishiki and Mitoizumi were in Juryo simultaneously, but they were both kosho absent in the first, never scheduled against each other in the second, and both retired mid-basho in the 3rd, again without facing off.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
18 hours ago, Asashosakari said:

I do believe that list is short of a few names.

Thank you for the correction, I had so many tabs open and must've closed some before deciding what I would do with that info. This changes things slightly: Mitoizumi and Kotonishiki both competed in Juryo in Nagoya 2000, but they did not have a match (probably because Mitoizumi missed days 8 and 9). I've edited to show this.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Bushozan is currently 79-79 in Juryo as of Day 8 Kyushu 2022 with a 5-3 so far.  That means if he goes 8-7 he'll have an overall losing record, but it might be enough for Makuuchi promotion from J2w.  That might be reasonable if he'd ever been demoted from Juryo, but he hasn't.  It's just been banzuke luck in his favor every single basho.  The contemplated situation actually happened with Seiro, though I don't know if anyone else has ever had this dubious distinction.  It helped him immensely to have a bunch of those losses in the same tournament while ranked high enough to not be demoted, as truly awful records tend to always get some luck compared to where they'd end up solely by the numbers.

Edited by Gurowake
  • Like 2
  • Thanks 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Gurowake said:

Bushozan is currently 79-79 in Juryo as of Day 8 Kyushu 2022 with a 5-3 so far.  That means if he goes 8-7 he'll have an overall losing record, but it might be enough for Makuuchi promotion from J2w.  That might be reasonable if he'd ever been demoted from Juryo, but he hasn't.  It's just been banzuke luck in his favor every single basho.  The contemplated situation actually happened with Seiro, though I don't know if anyone else has ever had this dubious distinction.  It helped him immensely to have a bunch of those losses in the same tournament while ranked high enough to not be demoted, as truly awful records tend to always get some luck compared to where they'd end up solely by the numbers.

Interesting, though with ten basho it's not an overwhelming statistical set.  He's pulled minimum 8-7 KK five of those, one 7-8, a 6-9 to match a 9-6, and a 10-5 which doesn't match the 2-13 klinker.  Without the 2-13 he's scoring 8 ± 1, an excitingly boring record. 

Awhile back I calculated how long it would take to make Sekiwake from Maezumo if you got 8-7 (or 4-3) every single basho.  At that rate he's hitting san'yaku in mid-2026, unless someone in the NSK catches on.

  • Haha 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, Gurowake said:

Bushozan is currently 79-79 in Juryo as of Day 8 Kyushu 2022 with a 5-3 so far.  That means if he goes 8-7 he'll have an overall losing record, but it might be enough for Makuuchi promotion from J2w.  That might be reasonable if he'd ever been demoted from Juryo, but he hasn't.  It's just been banzuke luck in his favor every single basho.  The contemplated situation actually happened with Seiro, though I don't know if anyone else has ever had this dubious distinction.  It helped him immensely to have a bunch of those losses in the same tournament while ranked high enough to not be demoted, as truly awful records tend to always get some luck compared to where they'd end up solely by the numbers.

Yeah, the relevant stat here is that he would have 7 KK against only 3 MK. Even with overall balanced wins and losses that's going to lead to a sizable rank jump pretty much everywhere on the banzuke except the makuuchi joi-jin and upper makushita.

Seiro's run was rather more impressive with 7 KK / 5 MK.

  • Like 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

And the exhaustive version...

From makushita to makuuchi with very low juryo W-L records (consecutive tournaments, but not necessarily the rikishi's only juryo tournaments before reaching makuuchi), actual negative differentials but also near-misses (±0, +1, +2) for context. Does not include rikishi who had a 0-0-15 that didn't result in demotion, either old kosho or more recently due to Covid, unless the remaining W-L without the 15 absences still fits the parameters. Other absences are treated as losses, same as they were on the banzuke.

2 juryo basho:
Tamaasuka - juryo 2011.05-2011.07, 16-14 (+2) record with 2 KK, beneficiary of yaocho scandal

3 juryo basho:
Yoshiazuma - juryo 2011.01-2011.07, 23-22 (+1) record with 2 KK and 1 MK, beneficiary of yaocho scandal

4 juryo basho: nobody 31-29 (+2) or lower

5 juryo basho:
Tsurugidake - juryo 2010.11-2011.09, 38-37 (+1) record with 2 KK and 3 MK, beneficiary of yaocho scandal

6 juryo basho:
Sadanofuji - juryo 2010.09-2011.09, 41-49 (-8) record with 3 KK and 3 MK, beneficiary of yaocho scandal
Hochiyama - juryo 2010.07-2011.07, 43-47 (-4) record with 2 KK and 4 MK, beneficiary of yaocho scandal

7 juryo basho:
Akiseyama - juryo 2015.01-2016.01, 53-52 (+1) record with 5 KK and 2 MK

8 juryo basho: nobody 61-59 (+2) or lower

9 juryo basho: nobody 68-67 (+1) or lower

10 juryo basho:
Sotairyu - juryo 2011.05-2012.11, 73-70-7 (-4) record with 5 KK and 5 MK, beneficiary of yaocho scandal (outsized promotion from Ms to J)

11 juryo basho: nobody 83-82 (+1) or lower

12 juryo basho:
Seiro - juryo 2013.07-2015.05, 87-93 (-6) record with 7 KK and 5 MK
Kitanokuni - juryo 1962.05-1964.03, 90-90 (±0) record with 8 KK and 4 MK

13 juryo basho: nobody 98-97 (+1) or lower

14 juryo basho:
Daihi - juryo 1979.07-1981.09, 104-104-2 (-2) record with 8 KK and 6 MK

15 juryo basho:
Kyokunankai - juryo 2008.03-2010.07, 111-112-2 (-4) record with 8 KK and 7 MK, beneficiary of gambling scandal (outsized promotion from J to M)

16 juryo basho:
Hoshiiwato - juryo 1986.11-1989.05, 119-121 (-2) record with 10 KK and 6 MK

17 juryo basho: nobody 128-127 (+1) or lower

18 juryo basho:
Daimonji - juryo 1963.11-1966.09, 135-131-4 (±0) record with 10 KK and 8 MK
Harunoyama - juryo 2001.03-2004.01 (one kosho), 128-123-4 (+1) record with 9 KK and 8 MK

19 juryo basho: nobody 143-142 (+1) or lower

20 juryo basho:
Chiyoo - juryo 2013.09-2016.11, 147-146-7 (-6) record with 11 KK and 9 MK

...

23 juryo basho:
Azumaryu - juryo 2015.11-2019.07, 171-174 (-3) record with 12 KK and 11 MK

27 juryo basho:
Mitoryu - juryo 2018.01-2022.07 (one Covid), 196-185-9 (+2) record with 15 KK and 11 MK

Should be complete.

Edited by Asashosakari
  • Like 9

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

125 years ago was the last time we had 1 Yokozuna and 1 Ozeki on the banzuke. 

Edited by Kintamayama
  • Like 2
  • Thanks 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, Kintamayama said:

125 years ago was the last time we had 1 Yokozuna and 1 Ozeki on the banzuke. 

I think this qualifies as more than trivia!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I couldn't find anything in this thread about the number of demoted Ozeki still on the banzuke (but below Ozeki).  We will have 5 on the next banzuke if there are no retirements, and the only ex-Ozeki to continue competing recently but retired by now is Kotoshogiku, and since his retirement there have been multiple Ozeki demotions so I'm fairly sure this would be a new record, assuming that it hasn't happened in the past.  Normally there aren't nearly this many Ozeki demoted around the same time that continue competing.  Also of note is that both of the upper sanyaku on the next banzuke also were demoted from Ozeki at one point.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, Gurowake said:

I couldn't find anything in this thread about the number of demoted Ozeki still on the banzuke (but below Ozeki).  We will have 5 on the next banzuke if there are no retirements, and the only ex-Ozeki to continue competing recently but retired by now is Kotoshogiku, and since his retirement there have been multiple Ozeki demotions so I'm fairly sure this would be a new record, assuming that it hasn't happened in the past.  Normally there aren't nearly this many Ozeki demoted around the same time that continue competing.  Also of note is that both of the upper sanyaku on the next banzuke also were demoted from Ozeki at one point.

We did that thing when the then-record of 4 was set three years ago: Link

(Conversation starts a few posts earlier than the one linked.)

Edited by Asashosakari
  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 25/11/2022 at 22:46, Hoshotakamoto said:

Ever since Roga and Tsushimanada arrived in Juryo they've carried mirror records for the first 13 days.

This is amazing. And it all started with a bout between the both of them on day 1.

It's since extended into Day 14, too - with Tsushimanada breaking his 4-day losing streak, and vice versa - Roga's mirror shiroboshi streak is gone.

Edited by Koorifuu
  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
52 minutes ago, Asashosakari said:

We did that thing when the then-record of 4 was set three years ago: Link

(Conversation starts a few posts earlier than the one linked.)

I only searched for posts with "former" in them (as well as Ozeki), but you used ex-Ozeki only.

Edited by Gurowake

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Apologies if this has been answered, but I need some advice/help how to run a query on two things:

1) Number of yushos per heya

2) Number of yushos per heya since the current stable master has taken charge of it (if that won't be possible then would someone help me on how to narrow the query down to the last five or ten years)

Apologies if this is not the right place to ask this. 

Thanks

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Takayasu has now joined second place with Futahaguro in alltime number of Makuuchi Jun-Yusho (7) without ever winning a Yusho. First place is Yutakayama with 8, so there's a record in reach for Papa Bear.

  • Sad 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
11 hours ago, Koorifuu said:

This is amazing. And it all started with a bout between the both of them on day 1.

It's since extended into Day 14, too - with Tsushimanada breaking his 4-day losing streak, and vice versa - Roga's mirror shiroboshi streak is gone.

Subverted on senshuraku as both men won.

  • Sad 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Terutsuyoshi is only the fifth makuuchi rikishi ever with a 0-15 record. Three of the previous ones retired soon after their 0-15 and the fourth one never made it back to the dop divison

Edited by Faustonowaka

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 07/11/2022 at 02:36, Yarimotsu said:

The Nishonoseki twins Hayashiryu and Rinko have now competed in 3 tournaments and produced 3 identical records, holding neighbouring ranks for 4 banzuke.

Hayashiryu Ryu 
2022.03 Bg   0-0   171 cm 129 kg
2022.05 Jk17e hoshi_yasumi.gifhoshi_shiro.gifhoshi_kuro.gifhoshi_yasumi.gifhoshi_shiro.gifhoshi_yasumi.gifhoshi_kuro.gifhoshi_yasumi.gifhoshi_yasumi.gifhoshi_shiro.gifhoshi_yasumi.gifhoshi_kuro.gifhoshi_yasumi.gifhoshi_shiro.gifhoshi_yasumi.gif 4-3    
2022.07 Jd84w hoshi_yasumi.gifhoshi_shiro.gifhoshi_yasumi.gifhoshi_shiro.gifhoshi_yasumi.gifhoshi_shiro.gifhoshi_kuro.gifhoshi_yasumi.gifhoshi_yasumi.gifhoshi_shiro.gifhoshi_yasumi.gifhoshi_shiro.gifhoshi_shiro.gifhoshi_yasumi.gifhoshi_yasumi.gif 6-1    
2022.09 Jd10w hoshi_kuro.gifhoshi_yasumi.gifhoshi_shiro.gifhoshi_yasumi.gifhoshi_yasumi.gifhoshi_kuro.gifhoshi_shiro.gifhoshi_yasumi.gifhoshi_yasumi.gifhoshi_shiro.gifhoshi_yasumi.gifhoshi_kuro.gifhoshi_yasumi.gifhoshi_shiro.gifhoshi_yasumi.gif 4-3    
2022.11 Sd80w   0-0    
Rinko Yoshikazu
2022.03 Bg   0-0   172 cm 118 kg
2022.05 Jk17w hoshi_yasumi.gifhoshi_shiro.gifhoshi_kuro.gifhoshi_yasumi.gifhoshi_kuro.gifhoshi_yasumi.gifhoshi_shiro.gifhoshi_yasumi.gifhoshi_yasumi.gifhoshi_shiro.gifhoshi_yasumi.gifhoshi_shiro.gifhoshi_kuro.gifhoshi_yasumi.gifhoshi_yasumi.gif 4-3    
2022.07 Jd85e hoshi_yasumi.gifhoshi_shiro.gifhoshi_yasumi.gifhoshi_shiro.gifhoshi_shiro.gifhoshi_yasumi.gifhoshi_yasumi.gifhoshi_shiro.gifhoshi_shiro.gifhoshi_yasumi.gifhoshi_shiro.gifhoshi_yasumi.gifhoshi_kuro.gifhoshi_yasumi.gifhoshi_yasumi.gif 6-1    
2022.09 Jd11e hoshi_yasumi.gifhoshi_kuro.gifhoshi_yasumi.gifhoshi_shiro.gifhoshi_shiro.gifhoshi_yasumi.gifhoshi_yasumi.gifhoshi_shiro.gifhoshi_yasumi.gifhoshi_kuro.gifhoshi_shiro.gifhoshi_yasumi.gifhoshi_yasumi.gifhoshi_yasumi.gifhoshi_kuro.gif 4-3    
2022.11 Sd81e   0-0    

They've spoilt it now. 2-5 and 5-2.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, Suwihuto said:

They've spoilt it now. 2-5 and 5-2.

Well, it's still mirrored, which is pretty interesting.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

One stat courtesy of SumoSoul on Twitter:

First time we have a) had 3 hiramaku yūshō in a calendar year and b) had 3 hiramaku yūshō in a row. The previous record for a) was previously 2 in a year in 1972, 1991, 1992, and 2020, while the previous record for b) was 1992 when Kotofuji and Kotonishiki won in Nagoya and Aki.

http://sumodb.sumogames.de/Query.aspx?show_form=0&n_basho=3&group_by=basho&form1_rank=m&form1_y=on&form1_m=on&group_expand=on

Edited by Seiyashi
  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

A couple of days ago I wondered if you/Terutsuyoshi can drop from Makuuchi down to Makushita. I thought I'd get an error from the Sumodb for the query...

Jonathan Frakes Beyond Belief: Fact or Fiction
I was wrong. Turns out it happened to a man from Aomori back in 1928. Weird Banzuke times back then.

Spoiler
1927.10 J3w hoshi_shiro.gifhoshi_shiro.gifhoshi_kuro.gifhoshi_shiro.gifhoshi_kuro.gifhoshi_kuro.gifhoshi_shiro.gifhoshi_shiro.gifhoshi_shiro.gifhoshi_shiro.gifhoshi_shiro.gif 8-3    
1928.01 Ms7e hoshi_kuro.gifhoshi_yasumi.gifhoshi_yasumi.gifhoshi_yasumi.gifhoshi_yasumi.gifhoshi_yasumi.gifhoshi_yasumi.gifhoshi_yasumi.gifhoshi_shiro.gifhoshi_yasumi.gifhoshi_kuro.gif 1-2-3    
1928.03 M11e hoshi_kuro.gifhoshi_kuro.gifhoshi_kuro.gifhoshi_kuro.gifhoshi_kuro.gifhoshi_kuro.gifhoshi_shiro.gifhoshi_shiro.gifhoshi_kuro.gifhoshi_shiro.gifhoshi_kuro.gif 3-8    
1928.05 Ms16w hoshi_kuro.gifhoshi_yasumi.gifhoshi_shiro.gifhoshi_yasumi.gifhoshi_kuro.gifhoshi_yasumi.gifhoshi_kuro.gifhoshi_yasumi.gifhoshi_kuro.gifhoshi_yasumi.gifhoshi_shiro.gif 2-4    
1928.10 Ms16w hoshi_shiro.gifhoshi_shiro.gifhoshi_yasumi.gifhoshi_shiro.gifhoshi_yasumi.gifhoshi_shiro.gifhoshi_yasumi.gifhoshi_shiro.gifhoshi_yasumi.gifhoshi_kuro.gifhoshi_yasumi.gif 5-1

 

 
Edited by Barutokai
  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
12 minutes ago, Barutokai said:

 Turns out it happened to a man from Aomori back in 1928. Weird Banzuke times back then.

  Reveal hidden contents
1927.10 J3w hoshi_shiro.gifhoshi_shiro.gifhoshi_kuro.gifhoshi_shiro.gifhoshi_kuro.gifhoshi_kuro.gifhoshi_shiro.gifhoshi_shiro.gifhoshi_shiro.gifhoshi_shiro.gifhoshi_shiro.gif 8-3    
1928.01 Ms7e hoshi_kuro.gifhoshi_yasumi.gifhoshi_yasumi.gifhoshi_yasumi.gifhoshi_yasumi.gifhoshi_yasumi.gifhoshi_yasumi.gifhoshi_yasumi.gifhoshi_shiro.gifhoshi_yasumi.gifhoshi_kuro.gif 1-2-3    
1928.03 M11e hoshi_kuro.gifhoshi_kuro.gifhoshi_kuro.gifhoshi_kuro.gifhoshi_kuro.gifhoshi_kuro.gifhoshi_shiro.gifhoshi_shiro.gifhoshi_kuro.gifhoshi_shiro.gifhoshi_kuro.gif 3-8    
1928.05 Ms16w hoshi_kuro.gifhoshi_yasumi.gifhoshi_shiro.gifhoshi_yasumi.gifhoshi_kuro.gifhoshi_yasumi.gifhoshi_kuro.gifhoshi_yasumi.gifhoshi_kuro.gifhoshi_yasumi.gifhoshi_shiro.gif 2-4    
1928.10 Ms16w hoshi_shiro.gifhoshi_shiro.gifhoshi_yasumi.gifhoshi_shiro.gifhoshi_yasumi.gifhoshi_shiro.gifhoshi_yasumi.gifhoshi_shiro.gifhoshi_yasumi.gifhoshi_kuro.gifhoshi_yasumi.gif 5-1

 

 

That's the very strange period of history where there were entirely different banzuke for Tokyo and non-Tokyo basho.  That is, the effect of any given basho is to apply the results to the one AFTER next, and the next chronological banzuke was based on ranks and results from basho previous to the current one.

  • Like 1
  • Thanks 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Also note that while it looks like he still was demoted from Makuuchi to Makushita in the above method, right then they decided the method mentioned above was stupid, and only changed the ranks every two tournaments.  He was stuck at Makushita 16 due to that change, when otherwise he would have been in the middle of Juryo.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Playing Guessing the Banzuke would've been more challenging back then I guess...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now