Gurowake

Trivia bits

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Posted (edited)

First time in recorded bout history that there are two 3-0s in the range M1-M3 for two straight basho.

http://sumodb.sumogames.de/Query_bout.aspx?show_form=0&group_by=basho&having=2&day=3&rank1=m1-m3&wins1=3&gsort_by=date

I'll note however, there were some basho there with three 3-0s in that rank range, which is another interesting thing, but different.

Edited by Gurowake
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Posted (edited)

Initially posted this in the main basho thread, but it was a sideline of something I brought up myself so it better fit here.

There have been 8 recorded draws in the 6-basho era.  They were somewhat more frequent the further back in time you go, but when the last happened in 1974 there hadn't been one for 7 years.

http://sumodb.sumogames.de/Query_bout.aspx?show_form=0&year=>1957&kimarite=92&east1=on

(I don't think there would have been any other kind besides hikiwake)

There were 16 recorded draws from 1940 to 1957, so somewhat more frequent, but still fairly rare - except when Aobayama had one two days in a row.  The previous basho he also had 2 draws only with 1 extra day separating them, and the previous year he had been in a draw as well - 5 n a row featured him.  One of those was also against Kyushuzan who was in the 2 draws prior to the run of 5 Aobayama was party to.  And there's more of the same rikishi appearing multiple times after that, like the 3 in 1955 with Wakanohana.

http://sumodb.sumogames.de/Query_bout.aspx?show_form=0&year=1940-1957&kimarite=92&east1=on

Note that we don't have all bouts in the database for lower divisions back far enough in time, so there may have been more back then that weren't recorded for posterity.  I'm not going to search all the records of rikishi looking for draws in them where we don't have the full bout information.

Edited by Gurowake

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2 minutes ago, Gurowake said:

One of those was also against Kyushuzan who was in the 2 draws prior to the run of 5 Aobayama was party to.  And there's more of the same rikishi appearing multiple times after that, like the 3 in 1955 with Wakanohana.

That seems to me to suggest that it's some rikishi's styles that are more likely to give rise to a draw, so at least with Teru and Ichi tomorrow who have a history of mizu-iri, that pairing more than any other is likely to give us another mizu-iri if not the possibility of a draw.

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Posted (edited)
12 minutes ago, Gurowake said:

And there's more of the same rikishi appearing multiple times after that, like the 3 in 1955 with Wakanohana.

I just looked more closely and two of those were in consecutive basho against the same opponent, Dewanishiki.  They were on opposite sides of the dohyo from the first match so it's not as obvious. 

I'll also note that Wakanohaha's 7-7-1 from S1e got him moved to S1w.  It clearly wasn't a non-demotion based on 7 wins without other candidates to take the spot though, because there were 2 other rikishi at Sekiwake that got KKs.  It clearly was treated as a KK of some sort with the S1w record of 11-4 being sufficiently strong to take the S1e slot - but the 8-7 S2wHD did not more past him.

http://sumodb.sumogames.de/Banzuke.aspx?b=195501&heya=-1&shusshin=-1&snr=on

That basho also saw an 8-7 M1e not get promoted in favor of a 10-5 M2w.  Clearly a different time.

Edited by Gurowake

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35 minutes ago, Asashosakari said:

Quiz time: Among top division yusho playoffs, what is unique about the one between Chiyonofuji and Asashio in Natsu 1982?

Is it that they were also the musubi no ichiban on shonichi, so they met on both the first and last days of the basho?

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4 hours ago, Oshirokita said:

Is it that they were also the musubi no ichiban on shonichi, so they met on both the first and last days of the basho?

Yep! No other makuuchi playoff has ever featured a match between two rikishi who also met on Day 1.


It's been rather more common in juryo - which was my actual starting point for checking it, because it occurred there again just recently. 5 cases of direct head-to-head playoffs, along with another 5 (somewhat less interesting) cases involving 3+ rikishi playoffs where the pairing repeated from Day 1 was just one of several playoff bouts.

The "proper" cases: 1986.012003.012011.012018.07, and 2022.05.

The ones in extended playoffs: 1963.03 (3-way), 1972.09 (6-way), 1979.09 (4-way), 1989.05 (5-way), and 1989.09 (3-way).

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Unless I messed something up, this is the first time in modern sumo history that only a single rikishi ranked M5 or higher has fewer than 2 losses after 5 days.

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3 hours ago, Reonito said:

Unless I messed something up, this is the first time in modern sumo history that only a single rikishi ranked M5 or higher has fewer than 2 losses after 5 days.

Even if you messed up, it's still historic. (Weeping...)

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Posted (edited)

Nakabi Trivia

This is the second basho in a row that looks like someone applied a Lo-Pass Filter at half-time. Which sparked my curiosity. So for the customary period 1958+, the Top 5 basho for number of guys with positive scores at Nakabi in absence of anyone with 7 or 8 wins, looks like this:

1.   2022.07   17

2.   2022.05   16

3.   1975.07   15

3.   2003.07   15

3.   2020.09   15

 

And in the related category of number of co-leaders at Nakabi, the Top 3 looks thusly:

1.   2003.07   10

2.   2020.09   9

3.   2022.07   7

 

Both tables are naturally a function of flat playing field topology, aka they all suck alike, aka no-one really dominates.

Edited by yorikiried by fate
eagle eyes never fail to sanitize data

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Sorry for not providing a query, because there's none that I know of. I combined two queries via a disgustingly pedestrian double value check in Excel, for which I am ashamed.

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Triple post time.

The second table technically misses the co-third-place of 1984.01, where the seven co-leaders stood at 7-1!

Honorary mention to 1989.03 and 2012.09, where the number of 8-0 guys at Nakabi where an insane 6 and 5, respectively.

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4 hours ago, yorikiried by fate said:

Sorry for not providing a query, because there's none that I know of.

I tried to think of a query that could filter out basho with no one having a certain number of wins on a certain day, but it wasn't possible.  There's no way to check for there being 0 of something, because the queries have to return a list of bouts (for the bout query) or rikishi on the banzuke (for the other query) and will group them after those are returned; it can't figure out when there are 0 results to a query for a basho and have the return value be those basho.  If you had direct access to the database you could probably do it, but not with the publicly available tools.

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1 hour ago, Gurowake said:

I tried to think of a query that could filter out basho with no one having a certain number of wins on a certain day, but it wasn't possible.  There's no way to check for there being 0 of something, because the queries have to return a list of bouts (for the bout query) or rikishi on the banzuke (for the other query) and will group them after those are returned; it can't figure out when there are 0 results to a query for a basho and have the return value be those basho.  If you had direct access to the database you could probably do it, but not with the publicly available tools.

Hmm, something like this?

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5 minutes ago, Asashosakari said:

Wow, that was what I was looking for.  I guess it does work, and I foolishly didn't work hard enough at it and stopped when the query gave me nothing.  If I had just clicked "summary" it would have been exactly what I wanted.

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6 hours ago, yorikiried by fate said:

Nakabi Trivia

This is the second basho in a row that looks like someone applied a Lo-Pass Filter at half-time. Which sparked my curiosity. So for the customary period 1958+, the Top 5 basho for number of guys with positive scores at Nakabi in absence of anyone with 7 or 8 wins, looks like this:

1.   2022.07   17

2.   2022.05   16

3.   1975.07   15

3.   2003.07   15

3.   2020.09   15

Isn't it 13 for 1975.07? I suspect your query included the 6-2 and 5-3 juryo guys who fought in makuuchi on Day 8.

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Posted (edited)

Building on that, http://sumodb.sumogames.de/Query_bout.aspx?show_form=0&group_by=basho&g_op==&having=0&year=1958-now&day=8&rowcount=5&rank1=Y-M&wins1=7-8

There have been basho with no 7-1s or better in Makuuchi in the past, but they're rather rare, and we've had two in a row.

Edited by Gurowake

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4 minutes ago, Gurowake said:

Building on that, http://sumodb.sumogames.de/Query_bout.aspx?show_form=0&group_by=basho&g_op==&having=0&year=1958-now&day=8&rowcount=5&rank1=Y-M&wins1=7-8

There have been basho with no 7-1s or better in Makuuchi in the past, but they're rather rare, and we've had two in a row.

And the follow-up query to that would be this.

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, Asashosakari said:

Slight modification to get to no one with 7 or 8. Six instances in history, two of them are the two most recent basho. (But I see that you guys are well ahead of me.)

Edited by Reonito

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3 hours ago, Asashosakari said:

Isn't it 13 for 1975.07? I suspect your query included the 6-2 and 5-3 juryo guys who fought in makuuchi on Day 8.

Good catch. I thought I could be in trouble when I checked your example query further up.

(And I'm using the rank restriction *constantly* when compiling graph related data...)

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Posted (edited)

Some interesting trivia courtesy of Asahi Ozumo's twitter account: East-side wrestlers lost 9 straight bouts in today's torikumi, stopped only by Meisei who overcame apparently bad hoodoo to mess up Ichinojō. What's the longest streak so far?

Edited by Seiyashi

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40 minutes ago, Seiyashi said:

Some interesting trivia courtesy of Asahi Ozumo's twitter account: East-side wrestlers lost 9 straight bouts in today's torikumi, stopped only by Meisei who overcame apparently bad hoodoo to mess up Ichinojō. What's the longest streak so far?

I’m sure this has come up before, because I’m always looking at patterns and streaks like this … can’t remember if there was ever a definitive answer though.

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Posted (edited)

Since it's easier to check than makuuchi - the very first result of this turns out to have been 13 straight. (East wins though, not East losses.) Probably not the record, but in any case I don't think 9 is all that rare.

Edited by Asashosakari
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