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Does anyone have a list of rikishi in the 6-tournament era who were above 200cm? I know about Akebono, Kotooshu, Futuhaguro, Tenta, and ofc Hokuseiho, but I was wondering if there are random guys who never crossed Makushita who I hadn't heard of before.

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He's just outside your time range, but the tallest rikishi in modern times is Fudōiwa, who competed from 1940 to 1954 and was 214cm tall. Ōuchiyama, who retired in 1959 (barely makes it into the 6-basho era), was over 2m as well.

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I was looking at old match-ups, and one popped at me.

In the Nagoya 2011 basho, a rikishi named Haseyama was on the rank of Jonokuchi 4w after a 2-0 start in Maezumo. On day 7 he fought against Wakamisho and lost by uwatenage. As some might know, Wakamisho is an old shikona of now Terunofuji, who was 1 rank above that of Haseyama. But another thing I noticed is that Haseyama is now the newest shin-juryo Tochimaru! I thought it was a little bit of trivia worth sharing.


Going on a tangent here: That Nagoya 2011 had some other pretty good future names there making their Jonokuchi debut, Meisei was there, Jokoryu was there (then named Sakumayama) and Hakuyozan was also there.

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I fear that this has been covered before, but I can't find it.

Wondering how many 7-8's or 6-9's or 5-10's can be strung in a row, since if you fall too far, you won't be wrestling for 15 days.  I figured you'd need a good head start in Makuuchi to get a lot of 6-9's, but Kyokushuho started at J5 and posted 5 straight 6-9's to get to Ms1 and retire in January 2022.  That's the record; Tokushoryu and Nishikigi have popped four in a row recently, but only Yoshinohana in 1965 is with them on the leaderboard.

No one has parleyed a 5-10 for more than three consecutive basho, the last being Kyokushuzan in 2000.

And, Yago Shrekanori is the only rikishi to get three 4-11 scores in a row, starting in 11/2019; sure enough, he ran out of Juryo slots and went 3-5 at Ms1.

I'm sure this has been mentioned, but I might as well put it in the same batch: Kairyuyama in 1965-66 and Kaiki in 1984-65 had five consecutive 7-8 basho.

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And as a side note, while many rikishi have stringed 7-8 -> 6-9 -> 5-10, no one has gone 7-8 -> 6-9 -> 5-10 -> 4-11 before. Although Churanoumi has a chance at it this basho, I doubt he can make the perfect downfall to hell

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I had this a while ago:

On 12/05/2017 at 19:49, Asashosakari said:

Did we ever note these interesting results by Takanosato? 10-5 -> 15-0

It's the only 6-basho rising progression I've been able to find. Two toriteki went the other way: Tachigawa 7-1 -> 2-6 and Fukuzono 7-0 -> 2-5

Six-basho dropping as a sekitori would be quite the feat.

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9 minutes ago, Asashosakari said:

I had this a while ago:

Six-basho dropping as a sekitori would be quite the feat.

I trust your skills, but the you-know-what was you-know where, so I couldn't check out this amazing feat of Takanosato's.

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Once again, sorry if I'm reliving ancient material, but I wish to commemorate the top Hatsu Dohyo classes of all time: rikishi beginning in the same basho and going on to great things.

Rules:

1) "great things" mean as a bare minimum reaching San'yaku

2) Obviously Yokozuna are the best, so I've adopted a point scale: Y = 10, O = 5, S = 3, K = 1

Year | month | total points | Rikishi

1910    1          38        Y Nishinoumi  Y Onishiki  Y Tsunenohana  O Tsushimanada S Fukuyanagi

1988    3          36        Y Akebono  Y Takanohana Y Wakanohana Masaru  O Kaio  K Wakanoyama

1979    3          27        Y Futahaguro  Y Hokutoumi   S Kotogaume   S Masurao  K Takanofuji

1892    6          20        Y Hitachiyama Y Umegatani

1968    7          20        Y Takanosato  Y Wakanohana Kanji

1911    6          16        O Chabagasaki O Kyushuzan  S Misugiiso S Oshio

1940    5          14        S Dewanishiki  S Rikidozan  S Shinobuyama S Tokitsuyama  K Kuninobori   K Shimizugawa ["the year of the four Sekiwake":-)]

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2 hours ago, Asashosakari said:

I had this a while ago:

Six-basho dropping as a sekitori would be quite the feat.

This is close, as is this by Chiyonofuji.

There was a six-basho drop back in the 40s when not all basho were 15 days.

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4 hours ago, Yamanashi said:

Once again, sorry if I'm reliving ancient material, but I wish to commemorate the top Hatsu Dohyo classes of all time: rikishi beginning in the same basho and going on to great things.

Rules:

1) "great things" mean as a bare minimum reaching San'yaku

2) Obviously Yokozuna are the best, so I've adopted a point scale: Y = 10, O = 5, S = 3, K = 1

Year | month | total points | Rikishi

1910    1          38        Y Nishinoumi  Y Onishiki  Y Tsunenohana  O Tsushimanada S Fukuyanagi

 

1988    3          36        Y Akebono  Y Takanohana Y Wakanohana Masaru  O Kaio  K Wakanoyama

 

1979    3          27        Y Futahaguro  Y Hokutoumi   S Kotogaume   S Masurao  K Takanofuji

 

1892    6          20        Y Hitachiyama Y Umegatani

 

1968    7          20        Y Takanosato  Y Wakanohana Kanji

 

1911    6          16        O Chabagasaki O Kyushuzan  S Misugiiso S Oshio

 

1940    5          14        S Dewanishiki  S Rikidozan  S Shinobuyama S Tokitsuyama  K Kuninobori   K Shimizugawa ["the year of the four Sekiwake":-)]

I was wondering if you could extend this to actually quantify the rikishi classes, like the Hana no Nippachi-gumi, which are rikishi born in Showa 28 (1953), as compared to other birth years.

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Posted (edited)
11 hours ago, Kamitsuumi said:

I was wondering if you could extend this to actually quantify the rikishi classes, like the Hana no Nippachi-gumi, which are rikishi born in Showa 28 (1953), as compared to other birth years.

I just spent maybe 20 minutes writing up a reply with some related queries on the database and then my laptop shut itself off. Not going to write the pre-amble again so just imagine I did.

Here's a simple (messy) list of all sekiwake or greater since 1960, sorted by birth date.

http://sumodb.sumogames.de/Query.aspx?show_form=0&group_by=rikishi&showbirthdate=on&showhighest=on&form1_rank=s,O,Y&form1_year=>1959&form1_m=on&gsort_by=birthdate&offset=100

Anyway the gist I came across is this: In recent years there tends to be a few years' worth of rikishi that completely dominate and then a few years where basically no rikishi can surpass their senpai, and get surpassed by their juniors before the seniors retire. 1984,5,6 and 7 had 5,3,6 and 3 rikishi respectively reach sekiwake or higher (17 over 4 years) followed by 1988,89,90 with just the one rikishi so far (takayasu b.1990) reaching sekiwake or better. 1976-77 produced 8 such rikishi in 2 years, then 1978-82 produced exactly 1 such rikishi each year. Of course the narrative isn't that an entire generation is held back, as asashoryu lands squarely in the middle of that bunch (b.1980) but I certainly think these drought-and-flood periods are not random and are reflective of the ozumo environment. Some rikishi will have a much harder time reaching the top just based on their prime age for improvement butting squarely against the most consistent years of someone slightly older.

btw: 1953 had 5 sekiwake-or-greater, 1948 is the clear stand-out year with 9.

Edited by Yarimotsu
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1 hour ago, Yarimotsu said:

I just spent maybe 20 minutes writing up a reply with some related queries on the database and then my laptop shut itself off. Not going to write the pre-amble again so just imagine I did.

Here's a simple (messy) list of all sekiwake or greater since 1960, sorted by birth date.

http://sumodb.sumogames.de/Query.aspx?show_form=0&group_by=rikishi&showbirthdate=on&showhighest=on&form1_rank=s,O,Y&form1_year=>1959&form1_m=on&gsort_by=birthdate&offset=100

Anyway the gist I came across is this: In recent years there tends to be a few years' worth of rikishi that completely dominate and then a few years where basically no rikishi can surpass their senpai, and get surpassed by their juniors before the seniors retire. 1984,5,6 and 7 had 5,3,6 and 3 rikishi respectively reach sekiwake or higher (17 over 4 years) followed by 1988,89,90 with just the one rikishi so far (takayasu b.1990) reaching sekiwake or better. 1976-77 produced 8 such rikishi in 2 years, then 1978-82 produced exactly 1 such rikishi each year. Of course the narrative isn't that an entire generation is held back, as asashoryu lands squarely in the middle of that bunch (b.1980) but I certainly think these drought-and-flood periods are not random and are reflective of the ozumo environment. Some rikishi will have a much harder time reaching the top just based on their prime age for improvement butting squarely against the most consistent years of someone slightly older.

btw: 1953 had 5 sekiwake-or-greater, 1948 is the clear stand-out year with 9.

Yes, that's how I'd do it. :-D

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Posted (edited)

I got an idea from the above datas you guys showed. How about rikishi who are of both the birth year and the hatsu dohyo classes and reached at least sanyaku. Using this query, I made a list of exactly that. I only included the ones who debuted in the 6 basho PY era. Sorted by hatsu dohyo. Formatted as follows:
BirthYear_HatsuDohyo
Shikona [CareerHighRank]

1946_196105
Fujinokawa S
Haguroiwa K

1948_196403
Aobajo S
Kurohimeyama S

1948_196405
Kongo S
Wakajishi K

1951_197403
Dewanohana* S
Masudayama* S

1958_197403
Tagaryu S
Toryu S

1959_197503
Daijuyama S
Kirishima O

1962_197803
Kotoinazuma K
Mitoizumi S
Onokuni Y

1963_197903
Futahaguro Y
Kotogaume S
Hokutoumi Y
Takanofuji K
(were heyamates and both retired right after 199205)

1962_198503
Ryogoku* K
Tochinowaka* S (made sanyaku debut together in 198707)

1971_198703
Oginishiki K
Takanonami O

1972_198803
Kaio O
Takanohana Y
Wakanoyama K

1976_199203
Takanowaka S
Wakanosato S (were heyamates)

1976_199903
Kotomitsuki* O
Takamisakari* K

1986_200905
Aoiyama S
Myogiryu* S (made makuuchi debut together in 201111)

1988_201105
Chiyotairyu* K
Jokoryu K (born in Tokyo and made sanyaku debut together in 201409)

1992_201503
Hokutofuji K
Mitakeumi* O

* - Hatsu dohyo was MsTD

Edited by Chiyotasuke
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The Sandanme yusho was last won with a less-than-perfect score in January 1974 by Hironoumi with a 6-1 score - nearly 50 years ago!

The Jonidan yusho would be in a similar position if it weren't for Kinunonami's 6-1 yusho when returning in March 2013 - the second most recent non-perfect Jonidan yusho was Futagonishiki's 6-1 in November 1978.

In stark contrast, the Makushita and Jonokuchi yusho are won with 6-1 scores semi-regularly (13 and 12 times respectively since the beginning of this century), most recently in March 2021 for both. The reasons for this are rather obviously related to scheduling quirks at the top and bottom of the 7-bout system that do not apply to sandanme or jonidan.

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Posted (edited)

Related to the above: The only occurrence of a yusho being won with a 5-2 score in the modern 7-bout era for lower divisions is Nakamurayama's September 1973 debut in Jonokuchi. This resulted from a six-way playoff, and is arguably the Weakest Yusho Ever. Somewhat amazingly, one of these 6 hapless rikishi did actually reach Juryo in 1982 - for a single basho. The rest fizzled out before makushita.

Edited by Yarimotsu
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Posted (edited)

I would say 'scheduling quirks' is overselling it a little. It's just a simple function of the sizes of the respective divisions. 6-1 yusho can happen when there's just one 6-0 score in a division, or when there are multiple but they all can't be matched up in the last round. (Plus very rare other circumstances.) Clearly jonokuchi is the only division where a single 6-0 will be a frequent occurrence, and the latter scenario of completely impossible pairings is a lot more likely with makushita's usual two unbeaten records than with the three or even four that the larger divisions tend to have. And of course, even if there are unmatchable rikishi who must all be given other opponents, having three of them (rather than two) makes it a lot more likely that at least one will be winning that match anyway and finish 7-0 after all.

Edited by Asashosakari

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1 hour ago, Asashosakari said:

I would say 'scheduling quirks' is overselling it a little. It's just a simple function of the sizes of the respective divisions. 6-1 yusho can happen when there's just one 6-0 score in a division, or when there are multiple but they all can't be matched up in the last round. (Plus very rare other circumstances.) Clearly jonokuchi is the only division where a single 6-0 will be a frequent occurrence, and the latter scenario of completely impossible pairings is a lot more likely with makushita's usual two unbeaten records than with the three or even four that the larger divisions tend to have. And of course, even if there are unmatchable rikishi who must all be given other opponents, having three of them (rather than two) makes it a lot more likely that at least one will be winning that match anyway and finish 7-0 after all.

You're correct. A swiss system where you run out of valid participants does have a lot of quirks in its scheduling. :-D

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The heya affiliation seems to be a problem sometimes when trying to "winnow out the chaff".  Spectacular examples I remember are the three-way Juryo playoff (Meisei-Hoshoryu-Akua) in July 2020, and the three-way Jonokuchi playoff (Motobayashi-Sakurai-Marusho) in July 2019.

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Posted (edited)

Number of appearances in the musubi-no-ichiban (final bout of the day, without play-offs)

Highest Career Rank: Yokozuna
701   Hakuho
478   Asashoryu
447   Kitanoumi
447   Chiyonofuji
413   Taiho
392   Akebono
324   Takanohana
267   Kashiwado
261   Wajima
234   Musashimaru

Highest Career Rank: Ozeki
118   Konishiki
109   Kaio
  76   Kiyokuni
  68   Kotoshogiku
  67   Goeido
  63   Kirishima
  61   Takanonami
  60   Chiyotaikai
  57   Musoyama
  57   Kotomitsuki
  57   Hokutenyu

Highest Career Rank: Sekiwake
 68   Takamiyama
 57   Kotonishiki
 54   Kirinji
 51   Tosanoumi
 50   Kyokutenho
 49   Kurohimeyama
 49   Hasegawa
 45   Akinoshima
 45   Kotonowaka
 44   Tochiozan
 44   Wakanosato

Highest Career Rank: Komusubi
 27   Kyokushuzan
 25   Fujinishiki
 25   Itai
 25   Misugisato
 22   Endo
 22   Sadanoumi
 21   Shohozan
 21   Yutakayama
 21   Wakasegawa
 20   Chiyotairyu
 20   Homasho

Highest Career Rank: Maegashira
 16   Kushimaumi
 14   Higonoumi
 11   Asasegawa
 10   Orochiyama
 10   Tokitsuumi
 10   Kotoryu
   8   Amanoyama
   8   Taiga
   8   Rainomine
   8   Asahibiki
   8   Aogiyama

(I was most surprised by the high numbers for Sadanoumi and Yutakayama, until I realized they're not the current crop)

 

Edited by Jakusotsu
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All being well, tomorrow will be Satonofuji's 500th yumitori-shiki performance.

If he continues in the role uninterrupted, he can surpass Edonohana's record in the 2023 Kyushu basho, if my arithmetic is up to scratch. But whether that happens might come down to his own age and declining rank - he is already both the oldest and lowest-ranked performer on record - as well as Terunofuji's tenure as Yokozuna.

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29 minutes ago, Reonito said:

Enho is now the all-time leader in losses by oshitaoshi as a sekitori. He is tied for 5th overall, and trails Kitaharima by 20 for this dubious record.

Small nitpick: Your query parameters exclude matches by juryo rikishi up in makuuchi, which for instance leaves Daimonji three short of his real total (32, not 29).

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Just now, Asashosakari said:

Small nitpick: Your query parameters exclude matches by juryo rikishi up in makuuchi, which for instance leaves Daimonji three short of his real total (32, not 29).

Ah yes, I see how my checking division boxes is a bit lazy.

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That prompted some curiosity in me, though - Azumaryu is the active leader in makuuchi appearances while holding a juryo rank. Nobody else is anywhere near his 24, next is Daiamami with just 16. It's become hard to put up big numbers in this era of little cross-divisional match-making, anyway; the all-time lead is 61 by the indefatigable Oshio.

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