Trivia bits

[Kishinoyama 596]

3 hours ago, Yubinhaad said:

New Yokozuna in order of most bouts vs. Maegashira before giving up their first kinboshi:

* Since 1930. Excluding fusensho/pai.

Wajima 29

That is impressive and it will be amazing if anyone can top that record. 

[yorikiried by fate 2,029]

At first I was surprised that Asashoryu is so low on that list, given that he had a pretty good record (see below) against low rankers. But alas! His day 3 opponent of his Yokozuna debut basho was M1 Kyokutenho, who was in his first proactive phase back then and probably knew the way of the Mongol.

Nevertheless, I seemed to remember that Yokozuna Asashoryu had kind of an outstanding record against first time opponents. So I literally looked it up (or down).

And I remembered correctly: Yokozuna Asashory didn't lose a single bout against a first time aite. Instead he took home all 25 scalps (one for each yusho, it seems) during his 42 basho as Yokozuna career.

So I was curious and checked the rest of the bunch back to Futabayama as a random end point.

The only other guys to achieved this were Mienoumi - of all people - who didn't lose against 2 debut opponents in his illustrious 8 basho Yokozuna career, and Tamanoumi, who went undefeated against 9 such upstarts in 10 Yokozuna basho. Which points a bit to the big loss for sumo overall as a result of his very premature death.

Note that this stat favours short term Yokozuna, hence Mienoumi.

[Seiyashi 4,108]

5 hours ago, yorikiried by fate said:

At first I was surprised that Asashoryu is so low on that list, given that he had a pretty good record (see below) against low rankers. But alas! His day 3 opponent of his Yokozuna debut basho was M1 Kyokutenho, who was in his first proactive phase back then and probably knew the way of the Mongol.

Nevertheless, I seemed to remember that Yokozuna Asashoryu had kind of an outstanding record against first time opponents. So I literally looked it up (or down).

And I remembered correctly: Yokozuna Asashory didn't lose a single bout against a first time aite. Instead he took home all 25 scalps (one for each yusho, it seems) during his 42 basho as Yokozuna career.

So I was curious and checked the rest of the bunch back to Futabayama as a random end point.

The only other guys to achieved this were Mienoumi - of all people - who didn't lose against 2 debut opponents in his illustrious 8 basho Yokozuna career, and Tamanoumi, who went undefeated against 9 such upstarts in 10 Yokozuna basho. Which points a bit to the big loss for sumo overall as a result of his very premature death.

Note that this stat favours short term Yokozuna, hence Mienoumi.

Where's Hakuho fall on that list? IIRC he has a pretty good (but not unsullied) record against first timers as well - a notable exception was Arawashi, but what was his percentage overall?

[Gurowake 4,109]

7 hours ago, Jakusotsu said:

Nice work. Some surprisingly prestigious names at the bottom of this list.

And Kisenosato in the top 10 of Yokozuna in some positive category!  Truly a level playing field.

[Gurowake 4,109]

5 minutes ago, Seiyashi said:

Where's Hakuho fall on that list? IIRC he has a pretty good (but not unsullied) record against first timers as well - a notable exception was Arawashi, but what was his percentage overall?

There's a link on the home page of the database to a query which shows the Asashoryu first-time meetings.  It shouldn't be hard to just substitute the name (and restrict it bouts at Yokozuna).

http://sumodb.sumogames.de/Query_bout.aspx?show_form=0&m=on&rowcount=2&hth=1&shikona1=Hakuho&rank1=y&samed1=on&hthwins1=0&hthwins2=0

52-3.  Two of the losses in the same tournament.

 

[Seiyashi 4,108]

4 minutes ago, Gurowake said:

There's a link on the home page of the database to a query which shows the Asashoryu first-time meetings.  It shouldn't be hard to just substitute the name (and restrict it bouts at Yokozuna).

Out of reacts but thanks. Wow, so Abi has the fairly rare distinction of beating Hakuho in a hatsukao-awase. 

[Yamanashi 3,904]

Hakuho has fought against about 217 (hand count) different aite.  He lost the first match on 55 occasions.

Of that 55, 36 were from the only meeting between the two (mostly in Makushita).  That's a lot of guys still winning beers back home after all these years.

Towanoyama and Kimenryu have the distinction of beating Hakuho 2-0 in their careers.

Once Hakuho reached Makuuchi (2004.05), he lost the first match to 24 opponents.  These include Abi, Arawashi, Asasekiryu, Asashoryu, Chiotaikaikaio, Kotomitsuki, Kotooshu, Midorifuji, Takanoiwa, Tochinohana, Toyonoshima and Wakanosato.  Wakanosato won the first 6 bouts in a row against Hakuho, then lost his last 12 in a row.

[yorikiried by fate 2,029]

2 hours ago, Gurowake said:

There's a link on the home page of the database to a query which shows the Asashoryu first-time meetings.  It shouldn't be hard to just substitute the name (and restrict it bouts at Yokozuna).

http://sumodb.sumogames.de/Query_bout.aspx?show_form=0&m=on&rowcount=2&hth=1&shikona1=Hakuho&rank1=y&samed1=on&hthwins1=0&hthwins2=0

52-3.  Two of the losses in the same tournament.

 

Aaaaaaah!!!!!

There is a query!!!! With a link on the homepage!!!!!

So my 25 minutes of manual scanning the bunch were well spent...

[Seiyashi 4,108]

1 hour ago, yorikiried by fate said:

Aaaaaaah!!!!!

There is a query!!!! With a link on the homepage!!!!!

So my 25 minutes of manual scanning the bunch were well spent...

If it makes you feel better, you weren't the only one who overlooked it...

[Asashosakari 19,669]

Slightly related to recent discussion in the basho thread: Basho with the best and worst overall results by sanyaku against maegashira. Since 1965 (start of heya-based matchmaking), fusen and playoffs excluded.

Top 10:

1983.03 88.1% (59-8)
1995.01 87.8% (65-9)
1987.05 86.6% (58-9)
2018.09 85.2% (52-9)
1983.01 84.8% (56-10)
1970.07 84.6% (55-10)
2000.01 84.3% (59-11)
1968.03 83.9% (52-10)
1971.05 83.6% (56-11)
2017.05 83.6% (56-11)

Flop 10:

2020.01 46.3% (31-36)
1992.11 50.7% (34-33)
2005.03 51.6% (33-31)
2001.09 52.0% (39-36)
1975.07 53.3% (32-28)
1976.07 54.2% (39-33)
2018.01 54.7% (35-29)
2020.09 54.7% (35-29)
1975.01 54.8% (40-33)
1973.01 55.2% (37-30)

Full list in chronological order:

 

1965.01 63.8% (44-25)
1965.03 65.7% (46-24)
1965.05 74.2% (46-16)
1965.07 68.3% (43-20)
1965.09 59.0% (36-25)
1965.11 66.2% (45-23)
1966.01 63.4% (45-26)
1966.03 63.8% (44-25)
1966.05 65.2% (43-23)
1966.07 81.8% (54-12)
1966.09 78.5% (51-14)
1966.11 72.9% (51-19)
1967.01 76.3% (45-14)
1967.03 71.9% (46-18)
1967.05 74.3% (55-19)
1967.07 65.6% (40-21)
1967.09 76.6% (49-15)
1967.11 73.0% (46-17)
1968.01 66.2% (45-23)
1968.03 83.9% (52-10)
1968.05 57.6% (38-28)
1968.07 65.1% (41-22)
1968.09 58.0% (40-29)
1968.11 71.4% (45-18)
1969.01 76.1% (51-16)
1969.03 74.3% (52-18)
1969.05 66.2% (45-23)
1969.07 72.2% (52-20)
1969.09 79.1% (53-14)
1969.11 75.7% (53-17)
1970.01 79.1% (53-14)
1970.03 77.0% (47-14)
1970.05 80.3% (57-14)
1970.07 84.6% (55-10)
1970.09 76.8% (53-16)
1970.11 82.1% (46-10)
1971.01 68.4% (39-18)
1971.03 73.2% (41-15)
1971.05 83.6% (56-11)
1971.07 70.3% (45-19)
1971.09 77.3% (51-15)
1971.11 68.2% (45-21)
1972.01 56.9% (41-31)
1972.03 68.7% (46-21)
1972.05 72.6% (45-17)
1972.07 60.3% (41-27)
1972.09 61.2% (41-26)
1972.11 68.2% (45-21)
1973.01 55.2% (37-30)
1973.03 64.6% (42-23)
1973.05 71.9% (46-18)
1973.07 72.7% (48-18)
1973.09 67.7% (44-21)
1973.11 65.7% (44-23)
1974.01 76.9% (50-15)
1974.03 57.4% (39-29)
1974.05 58.0% (40-29)
1974.07 73.1% (49-18)
1974.09 60.0% (39-26)
1974.11 74.0% (54-19)
1975.01 54.8% (40-33)
1975.03 66.7% (46-23)
1975.05 64.2% (43-24)
1975.07 53.3% (32-28)
1975.09 67.6% (46-22)
1975.11 70.1% (47-20)
1976.01 63.8% (44-25)
1976.03 67.6% (46-22)
1976.05 73.1% (49-18)
1976.07 54.2% (39-33)
1976.09 64.4% (47-26)
1976.11 78.6% (55-15)
1977.01 75.4% (52-17)
1977.03 69.6% (55-24)
1977.05 73.8% (48-17)
1977.07 61.2% (41-26)
1977.09 75.4% (49-16)
1977.11 57.7% (41-30)
1978.01 73.1% (49-18)
1978.03 65.7% (44-23)
1978.05 67.1% (47-23)
1978.07 78.1% (50-14)
1978.09 60.6% (40-26)
1978.11 73.9% (51-18)
1979.01 66.7% (44-22)
1979.03 68.8% (44-20)
1979.05 77.3% (51-15)
1979.07 69.7% (46-20)
1979.09 66.2% (49-25)
1979.11 70.7% (53-22)
1980.01 73.1% (49-18)
1980.03 61.4% (43-27)
1980.05 74.3% (52-18)
1980.07 66.7% (46-23)
1980.09 72.5% (50-19)
1980.11 69.0% (49-22)
1981.01 69.4% (50-22)
1981.03 67.7% (42-20)
1981.05 66.2% (43-22)
1981.07 76.6% (49-15)
1981.09 60.9% (42-27)
1981.11 67.1% (47-23)
1982.01 79.4% (54-14)
1982.03 67.6% (48-23)
1982.05 76.6% (59-18)
1982.07 70.0% (49-21)
1982.09 74.3% (52-18)
1982.11 69.2% (54-24)
1983.01 84.8% (56-10)
1983.03 88.1% (59-8)
1983.05 71.2% (47-19)
1983.07 77.4% (48-14)
1983.09 72.3% (47-18)
1983.11 75.0% (48-16)
1984.01 71.2% (47-19)
1984.03 81.3% (52-12)
1984.05 71.2% (47-19)
1984.07 64.3% (45-25)
1984.09 66.7% (48-24)
1984.11 67.7% (42-20)
1985.01 79.4% (50-13)
1985.03 67.2% (45-22)
1985.05 81.4% (57-13)
1985.07 77.1% (54-16)
1985.09 74.2% (49-17)
1985.11 76.2% (48-15)
1986.01 80.6% (50-12)
1986.03 75.4% (49-16)
1986.05 77.8% (49-14)
1986.07 74.2% (46-16)
1986.09 65.6% (42-22)
1986.11 72.9% (43-16)
1987.01 69.5% (41-18)
1987.03 73.1% (49-18)
1987.05 86.6% (58-9)
1987.07 79.3% (46-12)
1987.09 80.6% (50-12)
1987.11 74.1% (40-14)
1988.01 77.0% (47-14)
1988.03 73.4% (47-17)
1988.05 81.7% (49-11)
1988.07 75.8% (47-15)
1988.09 71.2% (47-19)
1988.11 71.4% (45-18)
1989.01 60.9% (39-25)
1989.03 79.0% (49-13)
1989.05 73.0% (46-17)
1989.07 58.6% (41-29)
1989.09 65.6% (40-21)
1989.11 79.7% (55-14)
1990.01 77.0% (47-14)
1990.03 77.3% (51-15)
1990.05 68.8% (44-20)
1990.07 68.6% (48-22)
1990.09 71.4% (50-20)
1990.11 75.0% (51-17)
1991.01 71.9% (46-18)
1991.03 70.8% (46-19)
1991.05 72.7% (48-18)
1991.07 65.3% (47-25)
1991.09 55.7% (39-31)
1991.11 66.2% (47-24)
1992.01 63.9% (39-22)
1992.03 61.9% (39-24)
1992.05 58.2% (39-28)
1992.07 65.0% (39-21)
1992.09 65.2% (43-23)
1992.11 50.7% (34-33)
1993.01 59.7% (40-27)
1993.03 69.0% (49-22)
1993.05 68.4% (52-24)
1993.07 73.8% (62-22)
1993.09 70.9% (56-23)
1993.11 72.7% (56-21)
1994.01 69.3% (52-23)
1994.03 64.8% (46-25)
1994.05 78.9% (56-15)
1994.07 68.8% (53-24)
1994.09 74.4% (58-20)
1994.11 74.0% (57-20)
1995.01 87.8% (65-9)
1995.03 77.1% (64-19)
1995.05 64.6% (53-29)
1995.07 83.1% (59-12)
1995.09 77.1% (54-16)
1995.11 68.8% (55-25)
1996.01 77.9% (53-15)
1996.03 74.4% (61-21)
1996.05 77.5% (55-16)
1996.07 74.3% (55-19)
1996.09 78.9% (60-16)
1996.11 70.4% (50-21)
1997.01 67.5% (52-25)
1997.03 69.4% (50-22)
1997.05 72.2% (52-20)
1997.07 68.1% (47-22)
1997.09 75.0% (51-17)
1997.11 69.3% (61-27)
1998.01 80.8% (59-14)
1998.03 65.7% (46-24)
1998.05 69.6% (55-24)
1998.07 78.9% (56-15)
1998.09 76.5% (62-19)
1998.11 67.9% (57-27)
1999.01 68.9% (51-23)
1999.03 72.2% (57-22)
1999.05 70.9% (56-23)
1999.07 77.3% (51-15)
1999.09 60.6% (43-28)
1999.11 73.6% (53-19)
2000.01 84.3% (59-11)
2000.03 82.4% (61-13)
2000.05 80.9% (55-13)
2000.07 67.7% (44-21)
2000.09 81.6% (62-14)
2000.11 80.0% (48-12)
2001.01 69.4% (50-22)
2001.03 72.2% (57-22)
2001.05 72.5% (50-19)
2001.07 75.0% (54-18)
2001.09 52.0% (39-36)
2001.11 73.4% (47-17)
2002.01 78.1% (50-14)
2002.03 78.1% (50-14)
2002.05 80.6% (54-13)
2002.07 76.6% (49-15)
2002.09 73.4% (47-17)
2002.11 72.5% (50-19)
2003.01 65.7% (44-23)
2003.03 61.2% (41-26)
2003.05 68.8% (44-20)
2003.07 64.3% (45-25)
2003.09 61.8% (42-26)
2003.11 61.5% (40-25)
2004.01 61.9% (39-24)
2004.03 72.9% (51-19)
2004.05 57.6% (38-28)
2004.07 63.5% (40-23)
2004.09 61.8% (42-26)
2004.11 71.2% (47-19)
2005.01 70.1% (47-20)
2005.03 51.6% (33-31)
2005.05 78.8% (52-14)
2005.07 69.1% (47-21)
2005.09 70.6% (48-20)
2005.11 77.3% (51-15)
2006.01 68.5% (50-23)
2006.03 78.5% (51-14)
2006.05 65.7% (46-24)
2006.07 80.3% (49-12)
2006.09 69.2% (45-20)
2006.11 72.9% (43-16)
2007.01 55.7% (34-27)
2007.03 72.7% (48-18)
2007.05 75.4% (52-17)
2007.07 77.9% (53-15)
2007.09 67.1% (49-24)
2007.11 64.8% (46-25)
2008.01 62.3% (43-26)
2008.03 59.4% (41-28)
2008.05 72.1% (49-19)
2008.07 75.0% (54-18)
2008.09 70.6% (48-20)
2008.11 67.6% (46-22)
2009.01 71.9% (41-16)
2009.03 66.7% (38-19)
2009.05 77.2% (44-13)
2009.07 82.0% (50-11)
2009.09 74.6% (50-17)
2009.11 69.5% (41-18)
2010.01 69.0% (49-22)
2010.03 81.8% (54-12)
2010.05 72.1% (49-19)
2010.07 58.2% (39-28)
2010.09 76.2% (48-15)
2010.11 60.9% (42-27)
2011.01 76.9% (50-15)
2011.05 71.0% (49-20)
2011.07 78.1% (50-14)
2011.09 72.1% (49-19)
2011.11 78.5% (51-14)
2012.01 72.6% (45-17)
2012.03 74.6% (47-16)
2012.05 63.3% (38-22)
2012.07 80.0% (48-12)
2012.09 72.2% (52-20)
2012.11 66.7% (44-22)
2013.01 75.8% (47-15)
2013.03 75.8% (50-16)
2013.05 77.4% (48-14)
2013.07 71.4% (45-18)
2013.09 75.0% (51-17)
2013.11 72.3% (47-18)
2014.01 75.4% (49-16)
2014.03 74.6% (44-15)
2014.05 71.0% (44-18)
2014.07 70.1% (47-20)
2014.09 59.4% (38-26)
2014.11 63.3% (38-22)
2015.01 70.3% (45-19)
2015.03 67.6% (46-22)
2015.05 72.7% (48-18)
2015.07 74.6% (47-16)
2015.09 74.2% (49-17)
2015.11 69.4% (43-19)
2016.01 68.3% (43-20)
2016.03 63.5% (40-23)
2016.05 71.2% (42-17)
2016.07 57.7% (41-30)
2016.09 67.1% (47-23)
2016.11 74.6% (47-16)
2017.01 61.2% (41-26)
2017.03 76.5% (52-16)
2017.05 83.6% (56-11)
2017.07 65.7% (44-23)
2017.09 56.9% (37-28)
2017.11 56.5% (39-30)
2018.01 54.7% (35-29)
2018.03 67.7% (44-21)
2018.05 69.8% (44-19)
2018.07 64.7% (44-24)
2018.09 85.2% (52-9)
2018.11 59.1% (39-27)
2019.01 66.7% (44-22)
2019.03 74.6% (47-16)
2019.05 62.0% (44-27)
2019.07 58.3% (42-30)
2019.09 67.2% (45-22)
2019.11 63.6% (42-24)
2020.01 46.3% (31-36)
2020.03 63.6% (42-24)
2020.07 80.6% (54-13)
2020.09 54.7% (35-29)
2020.11 70.5% (43-18)
2021.01 68.7% (46-21)
2021.03 70.6% (48-20)
2021.05 67.1% (47-23)
2021.07 70.5% (43-18)

Edited September 14, 2021 by Asashosakari

[Atenzan 1,084]

You have to go back seventeen and a half years to Haru 04 to get a makuuchi banzuke without a current (Aki 21) makuuchi rikishi on it- but more than thirty years to get one that doesn't include a current makuuchi shikona. Can you figure out whose fault this is?

Spoiler

Sadogatake's.

 

[Reonito 1,523]

Takarafuji today became the leader among active rikishi with a career streak of 768 consecutive top-division bouts, passing Hakuho. He already had the longest current streak of consecutive bouts, dating back to Natsu 2019, when previous leader Ikioi dropped to Juryo.

[Tigerboy1966 1,474]

16 hours ago, Atenzan said:

You have to go back seventeen and a half years to Haru 04 to get a makuuchi banzuke without a current (Aki 21) makuuchi rikishi on it- but more than thirty years to get one that doesn't include a current makuuchi shikona. Can you figure out whose fault this is?

I was going to say Tokitsukaze, but the previous Yutakayama retired in 1981.

[Doitsuyama 1,192]

On 13/09/2021 at 22:22, yorikiried by fate said:

At first I was surprised that Asashoryu is so low on that list, given that he had a pretty good record (see below) against low rankers. But alas! His day 3 opponent of his Yokozuna debut basho was M1 Kyokutenho, who was in his first proactive phase back then and probably knew the way of the Mongol.

Nevertheless, I seemed to remember that Yokozuna Asashoryu had kind of an outstanding record against first time opponents. So I literally looked it up (or down).

And I remembered correctly: Yokozuna Asashory didn't lose a single bout against a first time aite. Instead he took home all 25 scalps (one for each yusho, it seems) during his 42 basho as Yokozuna career.

So I was curious and checked the rest of the bunch back to Futabayama as a random end point.

The only other guys to achieved this were Mienoumi - of all people - who didn't lose against 2 debut opponents in his illustrious 8 basho Yokozuna career, and Tamanoumi, who went undefeated against 9 such upstarts in 10 Yokozuna basho. Which points a bit to the big loss for sumo overall as a result of his very premature death.

Note that this stat favours short term Yokozuna, hence Mienoumi.

I'd argue that Hakuho tops this, going 33-0 before his first such loss in his tenth year as Yokozuna. It is arguably not Asashoryu's fault that he had only 7 Yokozuna years but he never could go beyond 25-0.

[yorikiried by fate 2,029]

2 hours ago, Doitsuyama said:

I'd argue that Hakuho tops this, going 33-0 before his first such loss in his tenth year as Yokozuna. It is arguably not Asashoryu's fault that he had only 7 Yokozuna years but he never could go beyond 25-0.

Hey, in my ruleset Asashoryu wins.

Admittedly, I made it so that he would.

(The stat is of course also biased towards yokozuna who (were) quit in or around their prime. Hence, Asashoryu and Tamanoumi.)

[Sue 520]

On 13/09/2021 at 11:38, Yubinhaad said:

New Yokozuna in order of most bouts vs. Maegashira before giving up their first kinboshi:

* Since 1930. Excluding fusensho/pai.

Wajima		29
Hokutoumi	17
Takanohana	16
Futabayama	14
Kitanofuji	14
Hakuho		14
Terukuni	13
Chiyonoyama	10
Kisenosato	10
Takanosato	9
Asahifuji	9
Yoshibayama	8
Akinoumi	7
Tamanoumi	7
Sadanoyama	5
Tamanishiki	4
Kotozakura	4
Akebono		4
Wakanohana III	4
Azumafuji	3
Chiyonofuji	3
Minanogawa	2
Haguroyama	2
Asashio		2
Taiho		2
Futahaguro	2
Kakuryu		2
Musashiyama	1
Maedayama	1
Mienoumi	1
Musashimaru	1
Asashoryu	1
Kagamisato	0
Tochinishiki	0
Wakanohana I	0
Kashiwado	0
Tochinoumi	0
Kitanoumi	0
Wakanohana II	0
Onokuni		0
Harumafuji	0

Terunofuji	?

 

Terunofuji is already up tied with Sadanoyama, and could get to Yoshibayama before he starts in on the sanyaku this time around. I'm a little surprised that the numbers are this low -- a Yokozuna could get into a tie for third place (or second if Y/O is depleted) simply by putting together a two basho no-kinboshi streak right at the beginning. And a new Yokozuna is, by definition, coming off a streak of very good performance.

[Seiyashi 4,108]

24 minutes ago, Sue said:

Terunofuji is already up tied with Sadanoyama, and could get to Yoshibayama before he starts in on the sanyaku this time around. I'm a little surprised that the numbers are this low -- a Yokozuna could get into a tie for third place (or second if Y/O is depleted) simply by putting together a two basho no-kinboshi streak right at the beginning. And a new Yokozuna is, by definition, coming off a streak of very good performance.

But the pressure and the disruptions to training seem to be doing a good number of them in.

That said, the question is who took that first kinboshi from each yokozuna - if it was a strong future ozeki or yokozuna then it's not that surprising. 

http://sumodb.sumogames.de/Query_bout.aspx?show_form=0&group_expand=on&group_by=rikishi1&rowcount=5&rank1=Y&onlyl1=on&rank2=M

The query is at least easy to do, but I don't have the background to appreciate whether or not some of the first kinboshi takers are good. I am seeing a good number of 9-6 M1s though; I wonder if there's anything in that. 

Edited September 16, 2021 by Seiyashi

[Yubinhaad 11,761]

1 hour ago, Seiyashi said:

But the pressure and the disruptions to training seem to be doing a good number of them in.

That said, the question is who took that first kinboshi from each yokozuna - if it was a strong future ozeki or yokozuna then it's not that surprising. 

http://sumodb.sumogames.de/Query_bout.aspx?show_form=0&group_expand=on&group_by=rikishi1&rowcount=5&rank1=Y&onlyl1=on&rank2=M

The query is at least easy to do, but I don't have the background to appreciate whether or not some of the first kinboshi takers are good. I am seeing a good number of 9-6 M1s though; I wonder if there's anything in that. 

 

You can refine that to a point by limiting it to the Yokozuna's rank debut. That will obviously exclude those who made it through theirs unscathed, but since they are a small proportion of the list that's not a big deal to manually look at. I think I'll go through later and add a "First Kinboshi Winner" column to my table. (Done)

Edited September 16, 2021 by Yubinhaad

[Sakura 1,495]

2 hours ago, Sue said:

Terunofuji is already up tied with Sadanoyama, and could get to Yoshibayama before he starts in on the sanyaku this time around. I'm a little surprised that the numbers are this low -- a Yokozuna could get into a tie for third place (or second if Y/O is depleted) simply by putting together a two basho no-kinboshi streak right at the beginning. And a new Yokozuna is, by definition, coming off a streak of very good performance.

He's only 4-0 against the Maegashira, since his first bout this tournament was against Komusubi Ichinojo.

[Gurowake 4,109]

The following is a list of the length of all the gaps, in number of basho, of at least ten basho between a rikishi winning two Makuuchi Yusho.  Only basho from 1957.09 forward were considered, which is right after the last time there was no tournament scheduled for July, so I did not count the number of basho back to the previous Yusho of the winners of the 4 tournaments starting then.  Since 1958.05, the winner of the tournament either was a first time winner or had won at some point since 1957.09.  The two basho that have been cancelled after being scheduled have not been counted.

This was inspired by considering how long the second entry on the list was compared to those in the past.  I had known that the first entry was going to beat it, but I was wondering if there were any others that would, and nope, Terunofuji's drought between his first and second Yusho is the second-longest in the time period considered.

It took me quite a bit to figure out how to do this in Excel such that I wasn't actually counting but having the computer do the grunt work.  I ended up using a feature of VLookup that returns the first match out of those possible even if there are other matches, so it could find the last tournament a rikishi had won fairly simply.

Note that this counts consecutive Yusho as a gap of 1, so it isn't really correct to call these "gaps", but "number of tournaments since previous win", which is always one greater, but a longer thing to say.  It's what I calculated, and relative size is only what's important, not absolute number, so I'm not that concerned about being off by one.  This also allows you to divide by 6 to get the length of time in years, although you need consider the 2 cancelled basho for some of these to get time in years.

Basho	Rikishi	Gap
1998.11	M12w Kotonishiki (2nd)	43
2020.07	M17e Terunofuji (2nd)	30
1979.11	Y1wYO Mienoumi (2nd)	24
1972.11	O2wHD Kotozakura (3rd)	22
2002.07	O1w Chiyotaikai (2nd)	21
2000.07	Y1e Akebono (10th)	19
1965.01	O1e Sadanoyama (3rd)	17
1995.11	O1w Wakanohana (2nd)	16
1969.11	O1w Kitanofuji (2nd)	16
1963.09	Y1w Kashiwado (2nd)	16
1967.11	Y1w Sadanoyama (5th)	15
2001.01	Y2e Takanohana (21st)	14
1996.11	O1w Musashimaru (2nd)	14
1990.05	O2wHD Asahifuji (2nd)	14
1984.05	Y1w Kitanoumi (24th)	14
1961.03	Y1w Asashio (5th)	14
2006.01	O2e Tochiazuma (3rd)	13
1997.05	Y1w Akebono (9th)	13
1985.07	O2eHD Hokutenyu (2nd)	13
2015.11	Y2e Harumafuji (7th)	12
2011.07	O1w Harumafuji (2nd)	12
2003.07	O1e Kaio (4th)	12
1991.11	O1w Konishiki (2nd)	12
1965.09	Y2eHD Kashiwado (3rd)	12
2020.11	O1e Takakeisho (2nd)	11
2003.11	O1w Tochiazuma (2nd)	11
1997.11	O1w Takanonami (2nd)	11
1976.09	M4w Kaiketsu (2nd)	11
1979.07	Y2eHD Wajima (13th)	10

Edited September 18, 2021 by Gurowake

[Asashosakari 19,669]

Akebono might be the most interesting name on that list as the overall most prolific yusho winner to have two lengthy gaps in his championship record.

[Gurowake 4,109]

A list of all basho, with details, where the Juryo Yusho was won with more wins than the Makuuchi Yusho.  One interesting thing that's hard to tell because of the change in tournament timing is that the first six of these were consecutive.  This covers the entire Yusho era.  There are 31 occurrences of this out of 504 basho.

Date	Rikishi	Rank	Record	Rikishi	Rank	Record
1928.10	Miyagiyama	Y1e	9-2 Y	Wakashima	J7e	10-1 Y
1929.01	Tamanishiki	S1e	10-1 Y	Musashiyama	J4w	11-0 Y
1929.03	Toyokuni	O1w	9-2 Y	Shimizugawa	J12e	10-1 Y
1929.05	Tsunenohana	Y1e	10-1 Y	Shimizugawa	J1w	11-0 Y
1929.09	Tsunenohana	Y1e	8-3 Y	Oshima	J5e	10-1 Y
1930.01	Toyokuni	O1w	9-2 Y	Ayazakura	J1w	10-1 Y
1935.01	Tamanishiki	Y1e	10-1 Y	Kasagiyama	J3w	11-0 Y
1942.05	Futabayama	Y1e	13-2 Y	Surugaumi	J1w	14-1 Y
1950.01	Chiyonoyama	O1e	12-3 Y	Masumiyama	J7w	13-2 Y
1950.09	Terukuni	Y2eHD	13-2 Y	Yonekawa	J11e	14-1 Y
1954.03	Mitsuneyama	O1e	12-3 Y	Aichiyama	J20w	13-2 Y
1955.03	Chiyonoyama	Y1e	13-2 Y	Tochihikari	J3w	15-0 Y
1960.07	Wakanohana	Y1e	13-2 Y	Hanada	J5e	14-1 Y
1961.11	Taiho	Y1w	13-2 Y	Uchida	J7w	15-0 Y
1962.11	Taiho	Y1e	13-2 Y	Okanoyama	J5e	14-1 Y
1963.11	Tochinoumi	O1w	14-1 Y	Kitanofuji	J5w	15-0 Y
1968.07	Kotozakura	O2wHD	13-2 Y	Wakamiyama	J1w	14-1 Y
1972.01	Tochiazuma	M5w	11-4 Y	Masuiyama	J8w	12-3 Y
1975.09	Takanohana	O1w	12-3 Y	Aobayama	J4e	13-2 Y
1987.03	Hokutoumi	O1w	12-3 Y	Takamisugi	J7e	13-2 Y
1996.11	Musashimaru	O1w	11-4 Y	Tochinonada	J13w	13-2 Y
1999.01	Chiyotaikai	S1e	13-2 Y	Miyabiyama	J1w	14-1 Y
2003.11	Tochiazuma	O1w	13-2 Y	Kokkai	J2w	14-1 Y
2005.09	Asashoryu	Y1e	13-2 Y	Toyonoshima	J1w	14-1 Y
2006.03	Asashoryu	Y1e	13-2 Y	Baruto	J11e	15-0 Y
2007.11	Hakuho	Y1e	12-3 Y	Sakaizawa	J13e	13-2 Y
2013.07	Hakuho	Y1e	13-2 Y	Endo	J13w	14-1 Y
2014.09	Hakuho	Y1e	14-1 Y	Tochinoshin	J5w	15-0 Y
2015.09	Kakuryu	Y1w	12-3 Y	Shohozan	J6w	13-2 Y
2019.05	Asanoyama	M8w	12-3 Y	Takagenji	J2e	13-2 Y
2020.09	Shodai	S1e	13-2 Y	Chiyonokuni	J11w	14-1 Y

Edited September 20, 2021 by Gurowake

[Doitsuyama 1,192]

On 13/09/2021 at 17:38, Yubinhaad said:

New Yokozuna in order of most bouts vs. Maegashira before giving up their first kinboshi:

* Since 1930. Excluding fusensho/pai.

Yokozuna	Bouts	First Kinboshi Winner, Highest Rank

Wajima		29	Hasegawa	Sekiwake
Hokutoumi	17	Hananoumi	Komusubi
Takanohana	16	Terao		Sekiwake
Futabayama	14	Akinoumi	Yokozuna
Kitanofuji	14	Wakanami	Komusubi
Hakuho		14	Toyonoshima	Sekiwake
Terukuni	13	Matsuragata	Komusubi
Chiyonoyama	10	Futaseyama	Maegashira 2
Kisenosato	10	Endo		Komusubi*
Takanosato	9	Onokuni		Yokozuna
Asahifuji	9	Akinoshima	Sekiwake
Yoshibayama	8	Asashio		Yokozuna
Akinoumi	7	Kashiwado	Komusubi
Tamanoumi	7	Fukunohana	Sekiwake
Sadanoyama	5	Tamanoshima	Yokozuna (Tamanoumi)
Tamanishiki	4	Asashio		Yokozuna (Minanogawa)
Kotozakura	4	Kurohimeyama	Sekiwake
Akebono		4	Kyokudozan	Komusubi
Wakanohana III	4	Dejima		Ozeki
Azumafuji	3	Mitsuneyama	Ozeki
Chiyonofuji	3	Onishiki	Komusubi
Minanogawa	2	Ryogoku		Sekiwake
Haguroyama	2	Masuiyama	Ozeki
Asashio		2	Shionishiki	Komusubi
Taiho		2	Kairyuyama	Sekiwake
Futahaguro	2	Takanofuji	Komusubi
Kakuryu		2	Endo		Komusubi*
Musashiyama	1	Futabayama	Yokozuna
Maedayama	1	Masuiyama	Ozeki
Mienoumi	1	Misugiiso	Maegashira 2
Musashimaru	1	Akinoshima	Sekiwake
Asashoryu	1	Kyokutenho	Sekiwake
Kagamisato	0	Otachi		Komusubi
Tochinishiki	0	Onobori		Maegashira 1
Wakanohana I	0	Shinobuyama	Sekiwake
Kashiwado	0	Kairyuyama	Sekiwake
Tochinoumi	0	Hagurogawa	Sekiwake
Kitanoumi	0	Kongo		Sekiwake
Wakanohana II	0	Fujizakura	Sekiwake
Onokuni		0	Takamisugi	Komusubi
Harumafuji	0	Okinoumi	Sekiwake*

Terunofuji	?

Edit: Added the maiden kinboshi winners and their highest rank.

Four rikishi managed to claim the first kinboshi from two different Yokozuna: Masuiyama, Kairyuyama (in the same basho!), Akinoshima and Endo.

And we have the result already with a final score of 7 for Terunofuji.

[Doitsuyama 1,192]

Another topic recently was Yokozuna performance against first time opponents, and the loss doesn't bode well for Terunofuji seeing that he will have his premier first time meeting tomorrow (against Ura).

[Seiyashi 4,108]

On 13/09/2021 at 23:38, Yubinhaad said:

Edit: Added the maiden kinboshi winners and their highest rank.

Four rikishi managed to claim the first kinboshi from two different Yokozuna: Masuiyama, Kairyuyama (in the same basho!), Akinoshima and Endo.

So, as expected, the vast majority are at least sanyaku calibre, with only a handful of rikishi topping out at maegashira. Quite a good number of sekiwake there, too.