Gurowake

Trivia bits

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4 minutes ago, yorikiried by fate said:

Don't know if this has been mentioned: IF they give Terunofuji the rope, he would be the first in the 6bpye (didn't check further back) to be promoted to Y only two basho after Ozprom.

Futabayama was the only one before him to pass through ozeki in 2 straight basho to be promoted to yokozuna, as part of his 69 win streak. 

That said, considering this isn't Terunofuji's first tenure at the rank, it's questionable whether he truly matches this record. 

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57 minutes ago, yorikiried by fate said:

Don't know if this has been mentioned: IF they give Terunofuji the rope, he would be the first in the 6bpye (didn't check further back) to be promoted to Y only two basho after Ozprom.

Yokozuna after two basho as Ozeki: Tochigiyama (1918), Futabayama (1938), Terukuni (1943).

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Hakuho has set the new record as oldest Yokozuna winning a Yusho! Has he also the overall record of the oldest Rikishi ever winning a Yusho with 36 years and 4 months?

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Posted (edited)
10 minutes ago, Itachiyama said:

Hakuho has set the new record as oldest Yokozuna winning a Yusho! Has he also the overall record of the oldest Rikishi ever winning a Yusho with 36 years and 4 months?

I don't believe either is right. Haguroyama won a zensho in 1952 when he was 38, and there's also Kyokutenho at 37 years and 4 months (WP says he's oldest rikishi in the modern era, which sort of makes sense if they were counting from Chiyonoyama's promotion, but Haguroyama's zensho was already 15 days so something has gotten confused somewhere along the line).

Edited by Seiyashi
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The Kyokutenho record is meant to be "oldest first-time makuuchi yusho winner". The summary at the top of his Wikipedia page has it correct, but it's wrong further down in his career bio. (Well, was wrong. (Whistling...))

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4 hours ago, Seiyashi said:

I don't believe either is right. Haguroyama won a zensho in 1952 when he was 38, and there's also Kyokutenho at 37 years and 4 months (WP says he's oldest rikishi in the modern era, which sort of makes sense if they were counting from Chiyonoyama's promotion, but Haguroyama's zensho was already 15 days so something has gotten confused somewhere along the line).

Kyokutenho retired in 2015 and picked up (I assume) the Tomozuna kabu in 2017, only four years ago, and yet he's older than 40 of his fellow "elders"!

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Asashoryu holds the record for a Yokozuna promotion "speed run" from professional debut in mae-zumo with 25 basho, including 23 basho from Jonidan 85. I know it's not the same thing, but Terunofuji did it in 14 basho from Jonidan 48!

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, Reonito said:

Asashoryu holds the record for a Yokozuna promotion "speed run" from professional debut in mae-zumo with 25 basho, including 23 basho from Jonidan 85. I know it's not the same thing, but Terunofuji did it in 14 basho from Jonidan 48!

When someone that's 28 years old that has been training Sumo for over a decade is allowed to enter Ozumo, we might get someone to do that from entry.

Edited by Gurowake

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2 hours ago, Gurowake said:

When someone that's 28 years old that has been training Sumo for over a decade is allowed to enter Ozumo, we might get someone to do that from entry.

Maybe even faster too, without the busted knees. 

Let's see if Hokuseiho or Hoshoryu come close. 

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The number of ozeki demotions where the guy carried on was at its highest last decade (2010s) with 8.

Next highest was 2000s with 7. After that its a tie at 5 between 1970s and 1780s (??).

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Posted (edited)

For 1780s, those were kanban ozeki who were deemed decent, and then continued as regular rikishi.

Edited by Kamitsuumi

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13 hours ago, Seiyashi said:

Maybe even faster too, without the busted knees. 

Let's see if Hokuseiho or Hoshoryu come close. 

Hoshoryu is already at 20 basho.

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Posted (edited)
1 minute ago, Reonito said:
13 hours ago, Seiyashi said:

Maybe even faster too, without the busted knees. 

Let's see if Hokuseiho or Hoshoryu come close. 

Hoshoryu is already at 20 basho.

Well..... technically, he could make an ozeki run from M2w, then get promoted in two basho after that? (Laughing...)

Edited by Seiyashi

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Terunofuji's 14 from mid-Jonidan to Yokozuna is only 3 above what I think is the absolute minimum. Even with all zensho, it's one basho in Jonidan, one in Sandanme, two in Makushita, one in Juryo, one at maegashira, 3 in san'yaku and 2 at Ozeki. Terunofuji spent only one basho above the minimum in each of Makushita, Juryo, and at maegashira.

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Posted (edited)

Re-reading Terunofuji's Wikipedia article, he's actually come pretty close to the record for makuuchi yusho at 25 basho, only 2 behind Asashoryu. While I'm also inclined to discount his 14 from mid-jonidan as it's really not a fair comparison, it still goes to show that there's a fair amount of raw talent there which explains why he was expected to eventually reach yokozuna even before his injuries.

More trivia: Hakuho's reign is the only time that Shiranui yokozuna have ever co-existed in history. From the time we have reliable records of the dohyo-iri style that yokozuna perform, there have never simultaneously been Shiranui yokozuna until Hakuho and Harumafuji, and now with Hakuho and Terunofuji. The closest before that would have been 1986 when Takanosato retired in January and Futahaguro was promoted later that year. 

Edited by Seiyashi

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Posted (edited)
On 19/07/2021 at 15:25, Asashosakari said:

The Kyokutenho record is meant to be "oldest first-time makuuchi yusho winner". The summary at the top of his Wikipedia page has it correct, but it's wrong further down in his career bio. (Well, was wrong. (Whistling...))

I see NHK World's basho wrap-up is saying that Hakuho needs to surpass Kyokutenho to claim "a record," also ignoring Haguroyama. I presume they are counting post-1958, i.e. the "six tournaments a year era."

Edited by ryafuji

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Posted (edited)

2+ basho-to-basho changes at the ozeki rank, modern era:

1927.03 -> 1927.05 (±0): > O Hitachiiwa     > S Tachihikari
1930.03 -> 1930.05 (±0): > O Tamanishiki    > S Noshirogata
1930.10 -> 1931.01 (±0): > O Noshirogata    > i Toyokuni
1932.10 -> 1933.01 (-2): > Y Tamanishiki    > S Noshirogata 
1936.05 -> 1937.01 (+2): > O Futabayama     > O Kagamiiwa 
1937.05 -> 1938.01 (-2): > Y Futabayama     > i Shimizugawa
1939.05 -> 1940.01 (±0): > O Haguroyama     > i Kagamiiwa
1940.05 -> 1941.01 (+2): > O Akinoumi       > O Itsutsushima
1941.05 -> 1942.01 (-1): > Y Haguroyama     > O Terukuni       > S Itsutsushima
1942.05 -> 1943.01 (-1): > Y Akinoumi       > Y Terukuni       > O Nayoroiwa
1948.10 -> 1949.01 (-1): > Y Azumafuji      > O Masuiyama      > S Shionoumi
1951.01 -> 1951.05 (+1): > O Yoshibayama    > O Kagamisato     > S Saganohana
1951.05 -> 1951.09 (-2): > Y Chiyonoyama    > i Shionoumi
1955.09 -> 1956.01 (+2): > O Matsunobori    > O Wakanohana

1961.09 -> 1961.11 (-2): > Y Taiho          > Y Kashiwado
1962.05 -> 1962.07 (+2): > O Tochinoumi     > O Tochihikari
1970.01 -> 1970.03 (-2): > Y Kitanofuji     > Y Tamanoshima
1972.09 -> 1972.11 (+2): > O Wajima         > O Takanohana
1974.01 -> 1974.03 (±0): > O Kitanoumi      > i Kiyokuni
1975.11 -> 1976.01 (±0): > O Mienoumi       > S Kaiketsu
1977.01 -> 1977.03 (+2): > O Wakamisugi     > O Kaiketsu
1981.01 -> 1981.03 (±0): > O Chiyonofuji    > i Takanohana
1986.07 -> 1986.09 (±0): > Y Futahaguro     > O Hokutoumi
1987.05 -> 1987.07 (±0): > Y Hokutoumi      > O Konishiki
1987.09 -> 1987.11 (±0): > Y Onokuni        > O Asahifuji

1993.01 -> 1993.03 (±0): > Y Akebono        > O Takanohana
1994.01 -> 1994.03 (+2): > O Takanonami     > O Musashimaru
2000.05 -> 2000.07 (±0): > O Miyabiyama     > S Takanonami
2000.07 -> 2000.09 (±0): > O Kaio           > S Musoyama
2004.11 -> 2005.01 (-2): > S Tochiazuma     > i Musoyama
2007.05 -> 2007.07 (-2): > Y Hakuho         > i Tochiazuma
2017.01 -> 2017.03 (-2): > Y Kisenosato     > S Kotoshogiku
2019.03 -> 2019.05 (±0): > O Takakeisho     > S Tochinoshin
2019.09 -> 2019.11 (±0): > O Takakeisho     > S Tochinoshin
2021.07 -> 2021.09 (-2): > Y Terunofuji     > S Asanoyama

Plus one asterisked case:

1931.10 -> 1932.02 (±0): > O Musashiyama    > i Onosato

Musashiyama got promoted for the January 1932 tournament which ended up not happening due to the Shunjuen mass walkout of rikishi. Onosato retired as part of that and was off the banzuke for the next basho that actually took place.

Edited by Asashosakari
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2 hours ago, Asashosakari said:

2+ basho-to-basho changes at the ozeki rank, modern era:

Most of the time, if people are involved twice in that, it's usually to different ranks, but Takakeisho and Tochinoshin have got to be an unusual pair for doing it twice from the same ranks each time - and together!

That makes their only ozeki basho nominally shared at the rank Nagoya 2019, although neither man fought (or for long) during that basho.

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Maybe this has been asked and answered before but I just noticed that Daishomaru was Takagenji's final opponent. is there some way to determine who the rikishi is that is the final opponent of the most rikishi to leave/retire?

Edited by Rocks
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7 hours ago, Rocks said:

Maybe this has been asked and answered before but I just noticed that Daishomaru was Takagenji's final opponent. is there some way to determine who the rikishi is that is the final opponent of the most rikishi to leave/retire?

It's the mysterious but deadly Fusen.

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12 hours ago, Rocks said:

Maybe this has been asked and answered before but I just noticed that Daishomaru was Takagenji's final opponent. is there some way to determine who the rikishi is that is the final opponent of the most rikishi to leave/retire?

I can't answer this for all time since most "final bouts" are in lower divisions and lower division torikumi are far from complete (without gaps only since Heisei era, see the database stats for a complete overview). So it's not unlikely some former rikishi with a long career actually beats the two following leaders: Kasachikara and Itakozakura both were the final opponent for the maximum number of 9 opponents. These two make sense as they had (or have as Itakozakura is still active!) a very long career with a career high in Jonidan as the most final bouts happen in low ranks, and also the lowest rankers have the shortest careers on average, so more final bouts again.

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New Yokozuna in order of most bouts vs. Maegashira before giving up their first kinboshi:

* Since 1930. Excluding fusensho/pai.

Yokozuna	Bouts	First Kinboshi Winner, Highest Rank

Wajima		29	Hasegawa	Sekiwake
Hokutoumi	17	Hananoumi	Komusubi
Takanohana	16	Terao		Sekiwake
Futabayama	14	Akinoumi	Yokozuna
Kitanofuji	14	Wakanami	Komusubi
Hakuho		14	Toyonoshima	Sekiwake
Terukuni	13	Matsuragata	Komusubi
Chiyonoyama	10	Futaseyama	Maegashira 2
Kisenosato	10	Endo		Komusubi*
Takanosato	9	Onokuni		Yokozuna
Asahifuji	9	Akinoshima	Sekiwake
Yoshibayama	8	Asashio		Yokozuna
Akinoumi	7	Kashiwado	Komusubi
Tamanoumi	7	Fukunohana	Sekiwake
Terunofuji	7	Daieisho	Sekiwake*
Sadanoyama	5	Tamanoshima	Yokozuna (Tamanoumi)
Tamanishiki	4	Asashio		Yokozuna (Minanogawa)
Kotozakura	4	Kurohimeyama	Sekiwake
Akebono		4	Kyokudozan	Komusubi
Wakanohana III	4	Dejima		Ozeki
Azumafuji	3	Mitsuneyama	Ozeki
Chiyonofuji	3	Onishiki	Komusubi
Minanogawa	2	Ryogoku		Sekiwake
Haguroyama	2	Masuiyama	Ozeki
Asashio		2	Shionishiki	Komusubi
Taiho		2	Kairyuyama	Sekiwake
Futahaguro	2	Takanofuji	Komusubi
Kakuryu		2	Endo		Komusubi*
Musashiyama	1	Futabayama	Yokozuna
Maedayama	1	Masuiyama	Ozeki
Mienoumi	1	Misugiiso	Maegashira 2
Musashimaru	1	Akinoshima	Sekiwake
Asashoryu	1	Kyokutenho	Sekiwake
Kagamisato	0	Otachi		Komusubi
Tochinishiki	0	Onobori		Maegashira 1
Wakanohana I	0	Shinobuyama	Sekiwake
Kashiwado	0	Kairyuyama	Sekiwake
Tochinoumi	0	Hagurogawa	Sekiwake
Kitanoumi	0	Kongo		Sekiwake
Wakanohana II	0	Fujizakura	Sekiwake
Onokuni		0	Takamisugi	Komusubi
Harumafuji	0	Okinoumi	Sekiwake*


Edit: Added the maiden kinboshi winners and their highest rank.

Second edit: Updated after Terunofuji gave up his first kinboshi.

Four rikishi managed to claim the first kinboshi from two different Yokozuna: Masuiyama, Kairyuyama (in the same basho!), Akinoshima and Endo.

Edited by Yubinhaad
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Nice work. Some surprisingly prestigious names at the bottom of this list.

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20 minutes ago, Jakusotsu said:

Nice work. Some surprisingly prestigious names at the bottom of this list.

This must bear directly on the Yokozuna "Freshman Jinx" discussed on another thread.

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