Trivia bits

[Gurowake 3,886]

11 minutes ago, Asashosakari said:

 (By the way, the "rikishi 2 same division as bout" restriction is a bit odd to use here, as it allows for matches where Kyokutenho himself was visiting from juryo, but not matches where he was actually ranked in makuuchi and the opponent was the visitor.)

 

That's what he asked for.  The number of Makuuchi aite for rikishi, not the number fought as Makuuchi or fought as a Makuuchi match.  That may not have been what he meant, but that's what he asked for.

[Atenzan 1,074]

8 hours ago, Asashosakari said:

Anyway, that query does make for a good starting point for finding rikishi who can then be checked individually. Kyokutenho makuuchi-ranked (155), both Kyokutenho and opponent makuuchi-ranked (154, removes Misugisato), Kyokutenho in any makuuchi-torikumi bout (157, adds Konishiki and Kushimaumi). Up to Atenzan to pick his favourite version and check all the other top candidates.  

Ah, thanks very much for that. The version I had in mind was the first one you linked - Gurowake's accurate interpretation aside. Side note, Kyokutenhou's career length never ceases to surprise me. I only knew Kushimaumi from the obliterating harite knockout he received from Kyokudouzan in 1993 - which I had assumed had taken place a few years earlier than that. I never thought Kyokutenhou would have faced him. 

[Asashosakari 18,670]

Day 9 tied the all-time day record for kotenage in makuuchi bouts.

[Tsuchinoninjin 1,244]

After the talk about full sanyaku clear outs after a basho, I wondered if there had ever been a basho to completely swap S and K, as in Sekiwake all get 7-8 or lucky 6-9 and all Komusubi get KK.

There is one example I can find, Nagoya 1961 http://sumodb.sumogames.de/Banzuke.aspx?b=196107

Unfortunately (???) some maegashira guys also get promoted up into sanyaku (with a total of 4 guys at each rank) to stain it up a bit but I'm saying it counts.

[Asashosakari 18,670]

There's also Natsu 1967 where the 2 sekiwake and 2 komusubi flipped, but again two more maegashira were also promoted to komusubi.

In a similar vein, I like Kyushu 2010: Both S -> K, both K -> M, both M1 -> S.

[Asashosakari 18,670]

Kakuryu is now in select company as a yokozuna who managed to lose to 5 Y/O in one basho.

But he's outright unique as the only one among them who lost those 5 bouts but no others (i.e. finished 10-5). Oddly, he's also the only one to have done that as ozeki. (It's never happened for a sekiwake or komusubi, but two maegashira did it, too.)

---

And more yokozuna trivia - yokozuna losing exactly one bout each to a yokozuna, an ozeki, a sekiwake, a komusubi, and a maegashira:

Kisenosato, Aki 2018
Kakuryu, Aki 2016
Onokuni, Kyushu 1990
Takanosato, Nagoya 1985
Kitanofuji, Kyushu 1973
Tochinishiki, Hatsu 1959
Minanogawa, Natsu 1936 (6-5 record)

Minanogawa is the only one to face only #1-ranked rikishi as part of his loss slate. Kakuryu and Takanosato also lost to maegashira 1 (the rank with theoretically the most variety), but "missed" losing to a top-ranked ozeki. Onokuni is the only one to lose to his five opponents in ascending rank order.

[Otokonoyama 2,735]

Today Daiamami won the first makuuchi bout between rikishi from Amami Oshima against fellow maegashira 15 (W) Meisei. The winner (by yoritaoshi) hails from Tatsugo Town in the northern part of the island, and his opponent is from Setouchi Town in the south. The career matchup is now 4-1 in Daiamami's favor.

Edited November 13, 2018 by Otokonoyama

[Yamanashi 3,689]

6 hours ago, Otokonoyama said:

Today Daiamami won the first makuuchi bout between rikishi from Amami Oshima against fellow maegashira 15 (W) Meisei. The winner (by yoritaoshi) hails from Tatsugo Town in the northern part of the island, and his opponent is from Setouchi Town in the south. The career matchup is now 4-1 in Daiamami's favor.

This is why I'm so glad when "Trivia Bits" pops up.  Yes, it is "trivia", but it takes one into the beneath-the-surface world that is so easy to miss.

Is there a real "NorthSide/South Side" rivalry on Amami Oshima, like you see in large cities?

[Chijanofuji 109]

Now that Kisenosato has lost his first 4 matches in a row...

The last and only other time this occurred in the modern era (a Yokozuna losing the first 4 matches of a basho, none of which by default) was in Haru 1931 when Yokozuna Miyagiyama  lost his first 4 matches and nevertheless continued the basho. He won his 5th match and finished with 5 wins and 6 losses in the end (this was in the 11 days per basho era). It was Miyagiyama's last basho as an active rikishi. He was listed on the next banzuke, but did not fight again.

Yokozuna Onokuni lost hist first 3 matches during Aki1988, but he went on to win hist 4th match and still managed to get his kachikoshi on the final day...

Yokozuna Asahifuji lost his first 3 matches during Hatsu 1992, but retired after this 3rd loss...

So if Kisenosato returns tomorrow and loses he sets a new negative record (most consecutive losses by a Yokozuna from day 1 of a basho). Also, no Yokozuna (in the modern era, since June 1909, when the yusho system was established) ever went on to fight in another basho after starting with 4 losses, let alone 5...

[Jakusotsu 5,757]

Inspired today's bonanza of upsets, I went looking for similar days with a chain of lower-ranked winners in the final bouts. The biggest gem I found was Aki 2006 Day 6 when the last seven bouts were won by the lower ranked rikishi. Including Kisenosato's fusen loss we came close today with six.

[Akinomaki 39,581]

I tried to look for the oldest ever sai-shusse rikishi, to see where 41 year old Daigonishki ranks

it has to be bg/jk - mz - jk

http://sumodb.sumogames.de/Query.aspx?show_form=0&columns=3&n_basho=3&rowcount=5&showbirthdate=on&form1_jk=on&form1_bg=on&form2_mz=on&form3_jk=on&sort_by=birthdate

The age has to be calculated extra

Yubinhaad pointed me to the next error

41 minutes ago, Yubinhaad said:

You would have to make it Jk&Bg - Mz - Jk to account for those who didn't have a banzuke-gai basho in between, such as Hokutoryu who was 43.

That puts Daigonishiki at no.2, 3rd is Kitasatsuma at 31, then 4 at age 30. 32 at age 25 and older, with only 2 that happened before 2000: Tochiogi 1993 at age 27 and Kasachikara 1996 at 26

Edited November 18, 2018 by Akinomaki

[Yamanashi 3,689]

I looked for the answer with the Search function, but to no avail:

Dairyu Tadahiro (top rank J4) appears to be the current kabu holder with the lowest top rank.  Are there any members in the modern era who have a lower top rank?

 

[Akinomaki 39,581]

AbemaTimes pointed out a record by another 41 year old rikishi: 100 basho in jonokuchi by Sawaisamu (ex-Momochizakura)

[Yamanashi 3,689]

2 hours ago, Akinomaki said:

AbemaTimes pointed out a record by another 41 year old rikishi: 100 basho in jonokuchi by Sawaisamu (ex-Momochizakura)

If you're less than 36 years old, he was in Sumo before you were born.  If you're less than 18 years old, he's spent more time below Jonidan than you have been alive.

[Benihana 1,900]

On 19/11/2018 at 19:58, Yamanashi said:

If you're less than 36 years old, he was in Sumo before you were born.  If you're less than 18 years old, he's spent more time below Jonidan than you have been alive.

He started at 5? 

[Yamanashi 3,689]

1 hour ago, Benihana said:

He started at 5? 

Seriously, Jonokuchi + Mae-zumo + Banzuke-gai = 111 basho = 18.5 years!  I don't know what to think -- but it's what he thinks that counts, isn't it?

 

[Atenzan 1,074]

On 19/11/2018 at 01:10, Yamanashi said:

I looked for the answer with the Search function, but to no avail:

Dairyu Tadahiro (top rank J4) appears to be the current kabu holder with the lowest top rank.  Are there any members in the modern era who have a lower top rank?

 

Found a J5 after a quick look through the database: http://sumodb.sumogames.de/Rikishi.aspx?r=4168

Edit: and a Ms43, incredibly, who held the Kagamiyama kabu from 1911 to 1951: http://sumodb.sumogames.de/Kabu.aspx?kabu=30

Edited November 21, 2018 by Atenzan

[Akinomaki 39,581]

8 hours ago, Benihana said:

He started at 5? 

look at the sumo with kids thread - Japanese kids may have bouts with rikishi at a really young age

[Asashosakari 18,670]

14 hours ago, Atenzan said:

Edit: and a Ms43, incredibly, who held the Kagamiyama kabu from 1911 to 1951: http://sumodb.sumogames.de/Kabu.aspx?kabu=30

At a time when kabu were largely still inherited, of course, either by sons-in-law or (possibly adopted) sons.

[Bumpkin 438]

When was the last time that the Makuuchi division champion was the youngest of the 6 division champions?

[Sakura 1,463]

This year we have had yusho wins by Yokozuna, Sekiwake, Komusubi and Maegashira, but no Ozeki. The last and previously only time that happened in the 6-basho per year era was in 2000. 

Given that there are 5 named rank types in Makuuchi and 6 basho per year, I wondered how often one and only one rank-type got left out. In addition to the above we have 1974 with all bar maegashira; 1992 with all bar Yokozuna (for obvious reasons, though the Yokozuna did at least start) and 1972, and 1975 with all bar Komusubi.

[Benihana 1,900]

From honbasho talk

The only other time there were no double-digit KKs and MKs at M1 to M5 was this basho 26 years before.

[Andreas21 182]

Takakeisho won the Yusho at the age of 22 years, 3 months, 20 days.

The last Yusho winners younger than that have been:

Hakuhu (21)

Asashoryu (22)

Wakanohana (22)

Takanohana (20)

Kitanoumi (20)

(Hokutenyu was 22 but slightly older)

Quite an illustrious circle! I wish I could do a more systematic search to make a point that if you win a Yusho quite young you will most likely make it to Yokozuna.

[Yamanashi 3,689]

4 hours ago, Andreas21 said:

Takakeisho won the Yusho at the age of 22 years, 3 months, 20 days.

The last Yusho winners younger than that have been:

Hakuhu (21)

Asashoryu (22)

Wakanohana (22)

Takanohana (20)

Kitanoumi (20)

(Hokutenyu was 22 but slightly older)

Quite an illustrious circle! I wish I could do a more systematic search to make a point that if you win a Yusho quite young you will most likely make it to Yokozuna.

God, I hope I haven't mucked up the math, and I know it must be in one of the top ten lists, but Takakeisho is the 11th youngest rikishi to win a yusho since 1909; some won multiple yusho by the age of 22:

Age at Yusho       Name                      # of Yusho by age 22.25

19.42                    Takanohana            7

20.50                   Taiho                         6

20.67                   Kitanoumi                4

21.17                   Hakuho                     3

21.42                   Musashiyama          1

21.83                   Okitsuumi                 1

22.17           Ryogoku, Kashiwado      1, 1

22.17     Wakanohana, Asashoryu     1, 1

22.25               Takakeisho                  1

 

Edited November 28, 2018 by Yamanashi

[Yamanashi 3,689]

If the picture of new Juryo members Gagamaru and Sokokurai gives you a sense of deja vu, maybe it's because they first entered the sekitori ranks on 11/2009 and 1/2010, respectively.