Trivia bits

[Pikenoyama 27]

With Mitakeumi´s Yusho we will probably have 8 active Makuuchi Yusho winners on the banzuke this Aki Basho (Hakuho, Kakuryu, Terunofuji, Kotoshogiku, Goeido, Kisenosato, Tochinoshin, Mitakeumi). The last time we had so many winners on the banzuke was in Nagoya 2009 after Harumafuji had won his first yusho and before Dejima declared his intai (in that time the winners were Chiyotaikai, Dejima, Kaio, Kotomitsuki, Asashoryu, Hakuho, Kotooshu, Harumafuji). The modern era record seems to be held by Nagoya and Aki 2000 with 11 winners (Kotonishiki, Takanohana II, Akebono, Mitoizumi, Musashimaru, Takanonami, Chiyotaikai, Dejima, Musoyama, Takatoriki, Kaio). The opposite record was established between Aki 2011 and Hatsu 2012 with only 3 winners on the banzuke (Hakuho, Kotooshu, Harumafuji).

[Akinomaki 36,980]

The latest BBM sumo quiz trivia

no.9  Most number of ozeki on the banzuke?  (I guess we had that mentioned somewhere, but finding it with search is virtually impossible if it's not your own post)

6 - Natsu till Aki 2012, start after Kakuryu got promoted, end with Harumafuji's promotion (with Hakuho sole yokozuna)

a full dohyo for the kyokai go-aisatsu in Aki

o

The 7th time period after the war with 5 ozeki was Nagoya 1983 when Hokutenyu got promoted, the next basho Takanosato was new yokozuna

Most y/o combined is 8, e.g. 4+4 Kyushu 1987

 

no10.  Space between the shikiri lines?

70cm since Natsu 1970 , initially 60cm. The lines are 90cm x 6cm, white enamel paint.

o

Shikiri lines and time limit were introduced Haru 1928 with the start of NHK radio broadcasts, initially makuuchi 10min., 1942 7min., 1945 5min. and since 1950 4min. In 1931 the dohyo diameter was enlarged from then 13 shaku to the 15 shaku now (4.55m). Before shikiri lines existed, shikiri head to head could be seen.

 

Not the quiz, but nice trivia: the only bout in juryo with kensho: rivals Wajima-Yutakayama (Nagahama) eagerly awaited first meeting as pros was in juryo, Aki 1970 day 6

o

they had often met as amateurs, but Wajima with a ms60TD start one basho early and then 2 times 7-0 was far away when Nagahama started TD.

o

Edited August 11, 2018 by Akinomaki

[Asashosakari 17,346]

Longest sekitori careers with the least success:

117  O    Kaio
115  S    Kyokutenho
106  K    Oshio
 82  M3   Kitakachidoki
 75  M4   Otsukasa
 65  M7   Tochiisami
 64  M8   Wakanokuni
 60  M9   Kitazakura
 49  M14  Asahisato
 47  J1   Hakuryu
 40  J2   Sawakaze
 37  J4   Hakuyuzan
 31  J5   Sagahikari
 28  J7   Ijuin
 20  J10  Morinosato
 16  J12  Asanishiki / Isenishiki
 14  J14  Akenoumi
  9  J15  Fukumidori
  7  J17  Tokitsuumi
  4  J18  Kamanishiki
  2  J21  Hakuiyama

Longer description: These are the successive rikishi who had the longest careers while attaining the lowest career-high ranks, e.g. of all the rikishi who only reached M3 (or lower) Kitakachidoki had the longest career with 82 sekitori tournaments, or to flip it around, everybody with more than 82 tournaments also managed to go higher than M3. Kaio had a longer career than all yokozuna, so he's at the top. Inspired by Tokushinho, who ended up not quite making the list with 27 / J6. (He'd need to get back for two more basho to settle into the gap between Sagahikari and Ijuin.)

With makuuchi tournaments only:

107  O    Kaio
 99  S    Kyokutenho
 71  K    Takamisugi
 53  M1   Higonoumi
 52  M2   Toyohibiki
 50  M3   Tokitsuumi
 34  M6   Jumonji
 27  M11  Yoshiiyama
 14  M12  Fujitayama
 12  M16  Yasome
  5  M17  Hiranoto / Kosakagawa
  4  M19  Kiunzan
  2  M20  Otayama / Umenishiki
  1  M21  Asawaka / Hakunozan

Edited August 15, 2018 by Asashosakari

[Asashosakari 17,346]

21 hours ago, Asashosakari said:

 50  M3   Tokitsuumi
 34  M6   Jumonji
 27  M11  Yoshiiyama

As an aside: Besides Jumonji, the only other rikishi to get 28+ makuuchi tournaments and not reach at least M3 were Izuminada (28 / M6), Kaminishiki (32 / M5), and Otsukasa (30 / M4). Not that that will come as a surprise to any trivia- or history-minded fan, but it's a nice demonstration of how "difficult" it is to avoid trips to the joi-jin completely and finish with a career-high rank in the middle of the division if your makuuchi career has any sort of length. The usual mid-maegashira topper is more somebody like Kimurayama with under 20 tournaments.

[Gurowake 3,681]

In anticipation of Mitaekumi possibly being promoted to Ozeki from somewhere other than S1e as Takayasu was, I took a look at the times it happened in the past in the 6-basho era:

http://sumodb.sumogames.de/Query.aspx?show_form=0&columns=3&n_basho=3&form1_rank=m, s, k&form1_year=>1966&form2_rank=s1w, s2e, s2w&form3_rank=o

Kiyokuni - Long spell in sanyaku, which included a 7-8 to put him at Komusubi like Takayasu to start his run.  The middle record only matched the other Sekiwake, so he stayed on the west side.

Wajima - Had an 8-7 in the middle tournament like Goeido, at which time they reordered the Sekiwake based on record.  Two other Sekiwake finished better than him, so he ended up being promoted from S2e.

Kaiketsu - In his second full promotion to Ozeki, he won the Yusho as a Maegashira then only matched the other Sekiwake in the middle tournament.

Akebono - Like the previous Yokozuna on this list, went 8-7 in the middle tournament.  But he didn't even lose the S1e spot to another Sekiwake - a 12-3 Komusubi took it.

Takanonami - Had a 12-3 in the middle tournament, but another Sekiwake went 13-2 and was put ahead of him.

Dejima - Started the run as a Komusubi and scored worse than another Sekiwake in the middle tournament anyway.

Takayasu - Had the strongest middle tournament among the Sekiwake, but they were not reordered.

Also to note is that Goeido would have been promoted from S1w if they had reordered them after Natsu 2014, which was the first time they didn't.  Hatsu 2011 was the last time before that a lower-ranked Sekiwake had a better KK than a higher-ranked one.

How many others would it have happened to if they hadn't reordered Sekiwake based on record back in the day?  Maybe some other time I'll delve into that.

Edited August 23, 2018 by Gurowake

[Washuyama 600]

On 8/20/2018 at 19:47, Gurowake said:

Kaiketsu - In his second full promotion to Ozeki, he won the Yusho as a Maegashira then only matched the other Sekiwake in the middle tournament.

Just a note to this:  Kaiketsu's 1977 run to Ozeki coincided with Wakamisugi's (Y- Wakanohana II) own Ozeki run as they were promoted at the same time.  

[chishafuwaku 460]

There are listed 673 names in the 6 divisions according to sumodb (Aki 2018)

http://sumodb.sumogames.de/Banzuke.aspx

For those who have curiosity in the number of each character

Rank Letter #   1 a 923   2 i 611   3 o 584   4 u 394   5 k 310   6 s 265   7 n 262   8 h 253   9 m 223   10 t 215   11 r 197   12 y 165   13 e 158   14 z 76   15 j 64   16 g 62   17 d 57   18 c 35   19 w 32   20 f 30   21 b 29   22 p 1   23 l 0   23 q 0   23 v 0   23 x 0       4946 SUM     7,35 MEDIAN     14 MAX     2 MIN

Takayoshitoshi and Miyakomotoharu have 14 characters
Ai has 2 characters

 

Rank First Letter # 1 K 121 2 T 100 3 S 66 4 A 64 5 H 58 6 M 44 7 D 29 8 O 28 9 I 24 10 W 23 11 C 22 11 F 22 13 N 16 13 Y 16 15 R 12 16 G 9 17 B 7 18 U 5 19 E 4 20 J 2 21 Z 1 22 L 0 22 P 0 22 Q 0 22 V 0 22 X 0     673

 

Rank	Last Letter	#
1	i	196
2	a	180
3	o	128
4	u	86
5	e	43
6	n	40
		673

Edited September 5, 2018 by chishafuwaku

[orandashoho 720]

@chisafuwaku, it's a pity you don't speak Dutch. If you did, you'd have a ball with the works of Battus (pseudonym of Hugo Brand Corstius). He spent a lifetime researching the Dutch language for amusing properties and coined the phrase "Opperlands" (Upperlandish) as a more erudite form of  "Nederlands" (Netherlandish, the Dutch word for the Dutch language).

He published a book "Opperlandse Taal- en letterkunde" (1981), in which he has also classified and ordered all the peculiarities he found.
https://www.dbnl.org/tekst/bran023oppe01_01/ 

In 2002, an extended version was published under the title "Opperlans!"
"Second edition, completely revised, extended, systematized, provided with new errors, absolutely ultimate internet edition downloaded in 676 printed pages" 
At first it sets the "Upperland Constitution": "Upperlandish is Lowlandish on vacation. Upperlandish is Lowlandish without the nasty usefulness that language carries with it. Upperlandish words and Upperlandish sentences look like Lowlandish words and Lowlandish sentences at fist sight. But Upperlandish is also meant for the second sight."

Battus' book is a veritable feast... One gets easily overloaded with its astoundingly rich fare. I found it best consumed in small bites.
It is playful. It brings new perspective to the language phenomenon, revealing hitherto unknown dimensions. It makes the ordinary into the extraordinary. It kindles awe and love. Reading it gave me literally years of enjoyment.... thank you for reminding me of it.

Does such a book exist for the English language?

Edited September 5, 2018 by orandashoho

[Bumpkin 438]

So one active rikishi has the letter "p" in his shikona. Whom would that be?

[Katooshu 2,704]

Shunpo

Edited September 5, 2018 by Katooshu

[Naganoyama 5,627]

13 hours ago, orandashoho said:

@chisafuwaku, it's a pity you don't speak Dutch. If you did, you'd have a ball with the works of Battus (pseudonym of Hugo Brand Corstius). He spent a lifetime researching the Dutch language for amusing properties and coined the phrase "Opperlands" (Upperlandish) as a more erudite form of  "Nederlands" (Netherlandish, the Dutch word for the Dutch language).

He published a book "Opperlandse Taal- en letterkunde" (1981), in which he has also classified and ordered all the peculiarities he found.
https://www.dbnl.org/tekst/bran023oppe01_01/ 

In 2002, an extended version was published under the title "Opperlans!"
"Second edition, completely revised, extended, systematized, provided with new errors, absolutely ultimate internet edition downloaded in 676 printed pages" 
At first it sets the "Upperland Constitution": "Upperlandish is Lowlandish on vacation. Upperlandish is Lowlandish without the nasty usefulness that language carries with it. Upperlandish words and Upperlandish sentences look like Lowlandish words and Lowlandish sentences at fist sight. But Upperlandish is also meant for the second sight."

Battus' book is a veritable feast... One gets easily overloaded with its astoundingly rich fare. I found it best consumed in small bites.
It is playful. It brings new perspective to the language phenomenon, revealing hitherto unknown dimensions. It makes the ordinary into the extraordinary. It kindles awe and love. Reading it gave me literally years of enjoyment.... thank you for reminding me of it.

Does such a book exist for the English language?

I need to learn Dutch!

[orandashoho 720]

1 hour ago, Naganoyama said:

I need to learn Dutch!

It's not a big world language any more, with a paltry 23 million speakers or so, counting Afrikaans and Flemish. Hardly worth mentioning on the world stage, but soldiering on despite the pressures of global economy and the lure of internationalizing education. But thanks, if you ever make the effort. And I suppose you could still peruse the text of the book via above link to get the idea, even not knowing Dutch. After all, Upperlandish is dealing with the form rather than the meaning of the Dutch words and sentences. 

[Akinomaki 36,980]

We're getting off-topic and I don't know enough about books to judge if there is something like that from Battus, but my favorite English language book is (of course) the Devil's dictionary.

[orandashoho 720]

10 minutes ago, Akinomaki said:

We're getting off-topic and I don't know enough about books to judge if there is something like that from Battus, but my favorite English language book is (of course) the Devil's dictionary.

Nice, but that is a book about about meaning not form.
I found an English Wikipedia page: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opperlandse_taal-_%26_letterkunde
OK, I'll stop this babble about language now, let's get back to sumo. Aki is starting in just a few days!

[Akinomaki 36,980]

The day 5 east juryo doyho-iri was a Kise-beya parade -  all 6 of them in juryo were in it, also west Akiseyama - and there are more of them just below to expand on this 6-0 achievement http://sumodb.sumogames.de/Banzuke_text.aspx?b=201809

Was there ever in modern days a dohyo-iri with one side more than half from one heya and none on the other side? Kise might achieve that some day.

[Atenzan 1,074]

In Hatsu 1971, Tochiazuma "Tochiazuma's dad" Tomoyori went 2-13 with a fusensho and a kinboshi.

Has there ever been another instance of a rikishi who completed a basho without going kyujo and whose only wins he had a say in were against yokozuna?

Edited September 13, 2018 by Atenzan

[Naganoyama 5,627]

3 hours ago, Atenzan said:

In Hatsu 1971, Tochiazuma "Tochiazuma's dad" Tomoyori went 2-13 with a fusensho and a kinboshi.

Has there ever been another instance of a rikishi who completed a basho without going kyujo and whose only wins he had a say in were against yokozuna?

Not quite the answer to your question but in Aki 2009 Shotenro went 2-13 and one of his wins was against Hakuho.

 

[Tsuchinoninjin 1,117]

After day 7 in Juryo, 75% of the rikishi have 4-3 or 3-4 records, second only to 2017 Natsu with 79%. That ended with a 10-5 Nishikigi yusho and 7 9-6 "jun-yusho" rikishi.

[Benihana 1,805]

18 hours ago, Tsuchinoninjin said:

After day 7 in Juryo, 75% of the rikishi have 4-3 or 3-4 records, second only to 2017 Natsu with 79%. That ended with a 10-5 Nishikigi yusho and 7 9-6 "jun-yusho" rikishi.

I'd be cool with a 10-5 Aminishiki yusho.

Edit:

Aminishiki now should be the oldest makuuchi visitor from juryo ever to receive kensho.

Edited September 16, 2018 by Benihana

[Atenzan 1,074]

Would anyone like to lend me their wisdom and tell me what's the right query to search for the rikishi with the most makuuchi aite faced? 

@Asashosakari, @Jakusotsu, @Gurowake, perhaps? 

[chishafuwaku 460]

6 minutes ago, Atenzan said:

Would anyone like to lend me their wisdom and tell me what's the right query to search for the rikishi with the most makuuchi aite faced? 

@Asashosakari, @Jakusotsu, @Gurowake, perhaps? 

http://sumodb.sumogames.de/Query_bout.aspx?show_form=0&group_by=rikishi1&group_by2=rikishi2&having=50

[Atenzan 1,074]

4 minutes ago, chishafuwaku said:

http://sumodb.sumogames.de/Query_bout.aspx?show_form=0&group_by=rikishi1&group_by2=rikishi2&having=50

Sorry, perhaps I wasn't clear enough. I'm looking for the rikishi who faced the largest number of different aite in makuuchi - not the aite pairs with the most bouts. 

[Gurowake 3,681]

http://sumodb.sumogames.de/Query_bout.aspx?show_form=0&group_by=rikishi1&m=on&wins1=0&winsopt1=1&wins2=0&winsopt2=1&samed2=on&offset=0

This is actually completely wrong, but the database is now down and I don't know the syntax for what I actually meant.  That query says "0 wins before bout" for each rikishi, but it's referring to the number in the current basho, and thus the results of the query merely count those who participated in the most basho.  The "0 wins before the bout" should be put in the "head to head" section.  Doing that slightly undercounts though because it won't count anyone met first in another division.

Edited September 17, 2018 by Gurowake

[Gurowake 3,681]

Ok, this is the intended query: http://sumodb.sumogames.de/Query_bout.aspx?show_form=0&group_by=rikishi1&m=on&hth=1&hthwins1=0&samed2=on&hthwins2=0

If you want to know the correct total, you'll have to look at who everyone met in lower divisions and also in Makuuchi.  But I'm guessing that most rikishi met very few opponents first in the lower divisions compared to Makuuchi if they had a very long career such that they had a lot of different Makuuchi opponents.

Note that there aren't any long-time Ozeki near the top, as they faced a much smaller selection of opponents than those who moved all around the banzuke.  There are a few Ozeki who didn't stay there long though.  The first one Ozeki for any long period was Konishiki at #31, who had a long career after demotion anyway, then Kaio at #44 and Hakuho at #50.

Edited September 17, 2018 by Gurowake

[Asashosakari 17,346]

49 minutes ago, Gurowake said:

But I'm guessing that most rikishi met very few opponents first in the lower divisions compared to Makuuchi if they had a very long career such that they had a lot of different Makuuchi opponents.

At least for query-leading Kyokutenho that's incorrect - there are a relatively surprising 35 or so different rikishi that he faced in makuuchi but also earlier in a lower division. (By the way, the "rikishi 2 same division as bout" restriction is a bit odd to use here, as it allows for matches where Kyokutenho himself was visiting from juryo, but not matches where he was actually ranked in makuuchi and the opponent was the visitor.)

Anyway, that query does make for a good starting point for finding rikishi who can then be checked individually. Kyokutenho makuuchi-ranked (155), both Kyokutenho and opponent makuuchi-ranked (154, removes Misugisato), Kyokutenho in any makuuchi-torikumi bout (157, adds Konishiki and Kushimaumi). Up to Atenzan to pick his favourite version and check all the other top candidates.  

(Careful with rikishi who used several shikona while in makuuchi, or who shared their shikona with other historical makuuchi rikishi, e.g. Wakasegawa who's also high in Gurowake's query.)

Edited September 17, 2018 by Asashosakari