Gurowake

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Exactly one makuuchi yusho has been decided in a playoff between two rikishi who met on Day 1 for their regular bout; the corresponding playoff bout is here.

(Inspired by the juryo yusho race between Takanoiwa and Takanosho. It's happened a few more times in that division.)

 

Edited by Asashosakari

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Sokokurai won the Kyushu Juryo yusho and is now going to be demoted to Makushita for Aki.  I was wondering what the fastest someone had been demoted to Makushita after winning the Juryo yusho, and someone managed it in the minimum possible time.  Stayed in the following tournament for 10 straight losses before withdrawing and was demoted to Makushita for the one after that with no wins from J5.

http://sumodb.sumogames.de/Query.aspx?show_form=0&columns=4&form1_y=on&form1_j=on&form2_basho_nr=3&form2_ms=on

Interesting career.  Yusho in his Juryo debut at 23 years old, then no wins the next tournament, several tournaments off, and never fully recovered.  Sad.

Edited by Gurowake
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16 hours ago, Gurowake said:

Sokokurai won the Kyushu Juryo yusho and is now going to be demoted to Makushita for Aki.  I was wondering what the fastest someone had been demoted to Makushita after winning the Juryo yusho, and someone managed it in the minimum possible time.  Stayed in the following tournament for 10 straight losses before withdrawing and was demoted to Makushita for the one after that with no wins from J5.

http://sumodb.sumogames.de/Query.aspx?show_form=0&columns=4&form1_y=on&form1_j=on&form2_basho_nr=3&form2_ms=on

Interesting career.  Yusho in his Juryo debut at 23 years old, then no wins the next tournament, several tournaments off, and never fully recovered.  Sad.

Very strange denouement:

May 1988 -- reaches Juryo (J13W), wins yusho

July 1988 -- goes 0-10 and kyujo

next 3 basho -- out, now Sd83e!

March 1989 -- Sandanme yusho (7-0)

next 3 basho -- MKs

next 2 basho -- out, now at Jd78W

March 1990 -- Jonidan yusho (7-0)

3-year climb to Ms10

2-year fall to Sd68W, 1-6, intai before falling to Jonidan.

According to an article, "he suffered a left knee medial collateral ligament injury in training with members of the Nihon University sumo club (including later top division wrestler Daishoyama) and was forced to withdraw from the next tournament after ten straight losses. He had been ineligible for the kōshō seido rank protection as the injury had not taken place in a tournament, and he was demoted to makushita."

 

Edited by Yamanashi
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Recently BBM has interesting sumo quiz pages

no. 3: What system started Hatsu 1965 to get sumo popular again? - Taiho had 15 of his 32 yusho before that

- facing rikishi from all other heya - till then, those from the same ichimon had no bouts against each other

no. 8: which ozeki  kept their real names as shikona?

- Wajima (the only to keep it as yokozuna), Kitao (Futahaguro as yokozuna), Dejima, Takayasu

No.1 has an interesting trivia about a banzuke error - who had his shikona written on it with the wrong kanji 2 times, though he never changed it - on the banzuke for Aki 1967 and for Nagoya 1968 - and why is it written that way?

Kitanoumi  北の湖 - he used lake 湖 as the kanji for -umi, sea 海 - those 2 banzuke as jd and sd have him as 北乃海

His hometown Sobetsu is on the coast of lake Toya, Mihogaseki-oyakata wanted to give him a shikona with that relation and got the hint for the reading umi for 湖 from a film that was released at the time, from a 1966 novel,  Umi no koto 湖の琴

Edited by Akinomaki
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With Mitakeumi´s Yusho we will probably have 8 active Makuuchi Yusho winners on the banzuke this Aki Basho (Hakuho, Kakuryu, Terunofuji, Kotoshogiku, Goeido, Kisenosato, Tochinoshin, Mitakeumi). The last time we had so many winners on the banzuke was in Nagoya 2009 after Harumafuji had won his first yusho and before Dejima declared his intai (in that time the winners were Chiyotaikai, Dejima, Kaio, Kotomitsuki, Asashoryu, Hakuho, Kotooshu, Harumafuji). The modern era record seems to be held by Nagoya and Aki 2000 with 11 winners (Kotonishiki, Takanohana II, Akebono, Mitoizumi, Musashimaru, Takanonami, Chiyotaikai, Dejima, Musoyama, Takatoriki, Kaio). The opposite record was established between Aki 2011 and Hatsu 2012 with only 3 winners on the banzuke (Hakuho, Kotooshu, Harumafuji).

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The latest BBM sumo quiz trivia

no.9  Most number of ozeki on the banzuke?  (I guess we had that mentioned somewhere, but finding it with search is virtually impossible if it's not your own post)

6 - Natsu till Aki 2012, start after Kakuryu got promoted, end with Harumafuji's promotion (with Hakuho sole yokozuna)

a full dohyo for the kyokai go-aisatsu in Aki

f1a5bfb6a5d93f4f09f9f0ebea4f284e4b41c179_small.jpgo

The 7th time period after the war with 5 ozeki was Nagoya 1983 when Hokutenyu got promoted, the next basho Takanosato was new yokozuna

Most y/o combined is 8, e.g. 4+4 Kyushu 1987

 

no10.  Space between the shikiri lines?

70cm since Natsu 1970 , initially 60cm. The lines are 90cm x 6cm, white enamel paint.

54851b5e2eb6ce92f84ba5c010ea2272ee1d5f74_small.jpgo

Shikiri lines and time limit were introduced Haru 1928 with the start of NHK radio broadcasts, initially makuuchi 10min., 1942 7min., 1945 5min. and since 1950 4min. In 1931 the dohyo diameter was enlarged from then 13 shaku to the 15 shaku now (4.55m). Before shikiri lines existed, shikiri head to head could be seen.

 

Not the quiz, but nice trivia: the only bout in juryo with kensho: rivals Wajima-Yutakayama (Nagahama) eagerly awaited first meeting as pros was in juryo, Aki 1970 day 6

ec5606d562f1d471c69e5cd802505f0e30388cb6_small.jpgo

they had often met as amateurs, but Wajima with a ms60TD start one basho early and then 2 times 7-0 was far away when Nagahama started TD.

807c7d3178624964f272eb6b91aca63de5bf9225_small.jpgo

Edited by Akinomaki
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Longest sekitori careers with the least success:

117  O    Kaio
115  S    Kyokutenho
106  K    Oshio
 82  M3   Kitakachidoki
 75  M4   Otsukasa
 65  M7   Tochiisami
 64  M8   Wakanokuni
 60  M9   Kitazakura
 49  M14  Asahisato
 47  J1   Hakuryu
 40  J2   Sawakaze
 37  J4   Hakuyuzan
 31  J5   Sagahikari
 28  J7   Ijuin
 20  J10  Morinosato
 16  J12  Asanishiki / Isenishiki
 14  J14  Akenoumi
  9  J15  Fukumidori
  7  J17  Tokitsuumi
  4  J18  Kamanishiki
  2  J21  Hakuiyama

Longer description: These are the successive rikishi who had the longest careers while attaining the lowest career-high ranks, e.g. of all the rikishi who only reached M3 (or lower) Kitakachidoki had the longest career with 82 sekitori tournaments, or to flip it around, everybody with more than 82 tournaments also managed to go higher than M3. Kaio had a longer career than all yokozuna, so he's at the top. Inspired by Tokushinho, who ended up not quite making the list with 27 / J6. (He'd need to get back for two more basho to settle into the gap between Sagahikari and Ijuin.)


With makuuchi tournaments only:

107  O    Kaio
 99  S    Kyokutenho
 71  K    Takamisugi
 53  M1   Higonoumi
 52  M2   Toyohibiki
 50  M3   Tokitsuumi
 34  M6   Jumonji
 27  M11  Yoshiiyama
 14  M12  Fujitayama
 12  M16  Yasome
  5  M17  Hiranoto / Kosakagawa
  4  M19  Kiunzan
  2  M20  Otayama / Umenishiki
  1  M21  Asawaka / Hakunozan

Edited by Asashosakari
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21 hours ago, Asashosakari said:

 50  M3   Tokitsuumi
 34  M6   Jumonji
 27  M11  Yoshiiyama

As an aside: Besides Jumonji, the only other rikishi to get 28+ makuuchi tournaments and not reach at least M3 were Izuminada (28 / M6), Kaminishiki (32 / M5), and Otsukasa (30 / M4). Not that that will come as a surprise to any trivia- or history-minded fan, but it's a nice demonstration of how "difficult" it is to avoid trips to the joi-jin completely and finish with a career-high rank in the middle of the division if your makuuchi career has any sort of length. The usual mid-maegashira topper is more somebody like Kimurayama with under 20 tournaments.

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In anticipation of Mitaekumi possibly being promoted to Ozeki from somewhere other than S1e as Takayasu was, I took a look at the times it happened in the past in the 6-basho era:

http://sumodb.sumogames.de/Query.aspx?show_form=0&columns=3&n_basho=3&form1_rank=m, s, k&form1_year=>1966&form2_rank=s1w, s2e, s2w&form3_rank=o

Kiyokuni - Long spell in sanyaku, which included a 7-8 to put him at Komusubi like Takayasu to start his run.  The middle record only matched the other Sekiwake, so he stayed on the west side.

Wajima - Had an 8-7 in the middle tournament like Goeido, at which time they reordered the Sekiwake based on record.  Two other Sekiwake finished better than him, so he ended up being promoted from S2e.

Kaiketsu - In his second full promotion to Ozeki, he won the Yusho as a Maegashira then only matched the other Sekiwake in the middle tournament.

Akebono - Like the previous Yokozuna on this list, went 8-7 in the middle tournament.  But he didn't even lose the S1e spot to another Sekiwake - a 12-3 Komusubi took it.

Takanonami - Had a 12-3 in the middle tournament, but another Sekiwake went 13-2 and was put ahead of him.

Dejima - Started the run as a Komusubi and scored worse than another Sekiwake in the middle tournament anyway.

Takayasu - Had the strongest middle tournament among the Sekiwake, but they were not reordered.

Also to note is that Goeido would have been promoted from S1w if they had reordered them after Natsu 2014, which was the first time they didn't.  Hatsu 2011 was the last time before that a lower-ranked Sekiwake had a better KK than a higher-ranked one.

How many others would it have happened to if they hadn't reordered Sekiwake based on record back in the day?  Maybe some other time I'll delve into that.

Edited by Gurowake
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On 8/20/2018 at 19:47, Gurowake said:

Kaiketsu - In his second full promotion to Ozeki, he won the Yusho as a Maegashira then only matched the other Sekiwake in the middle tournament.

Just a note to this:  Kaiketsu's 1977 run to Ozeki coincided with Wakamisugi's (Y- Wakanohana II) own Ozeki run as they were promoted at the same time.  

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There are listed 673 names in the 6 divisions according to sumodb (Aki 2018)

http://sumodb.sumogames.de/Banzuke.aspx

For those who have curiosity in the number of each character

Rank Letter #  
1 a 923  
2 i 611  
3 o 584  
4 u 394  
5 k 310  
6 s 265  
7 n 262  
8 h 253  
9 m 223  
10 t 215  
11 r 197  
12 y 165  
13 e 158  
14 z 76  
15 j 64  
16 g 62  
17 d 57  
18 c 35  
19 w 32  
20 f 30  
21 b 29  
22 p 1  
23 l 0  
23 q 0  
23 v 0  
23 x 0  
    4946 SUM
    7,35 MEDIAN
    14 MAX
    2 MIN

Takayoshitoshi and Miyakomotoharu have 14 characters
Ai has 2 characters

 

Rank First Letter #
1 K 121
2 T 100
3 S 66
4 A 64
5 H 58
6 M 44
7 D 29
8 O 28
9 I 24
10 W 23
11 C 22
11 F 22
13 N 16
13 Y 16
15 R 12
16 G 9
17 B 7
18 U 5
19 E 4
20 J 2
21 Z 1
22 L 0
22 P 0
22 Q 0
22 V 0
22 X 0
    673

 

Rank Last Letter #
1 i 196
2 a 180
3 o 128
4 u 86
5 e 43
6 n 40
    673
Edited by chishafuwaku
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@chisafuwaku, it's a pity you don't speak Dutch. If you did, you'd have a ball with the works of Battus (pseudonym of Hugo Brand Corstius). He spent a lifetime researching the Dutch language for amusing properties and coined the phrase "Opperlands" (Upperlandish) as a more erudite form of  "Nederlands" (Netherlandish, the Dutch word for the Dutch language).

He published a book "Opperlandse Taal- en letterkunde" (1981), in which he has also classified and ordered all the peculiarities he found.
https://www.dbnl.org/tekst/bran023oppe01_01/ 

In 2002, an extended version was published under the title "Opperlans!"
"Second edition, completely revised, extended, systematized, provided with new errors, absolutely ultimate internet edition downloaded in 676 printed pages" 
At first it sets the "Upperland Constitution": "Upperlandish is Lowlandish on vacation. Upperlandish is Lowlandish without the nasty usefulness that language carries with it. Upperlandish words and Upperlandish sentences look like Lowlandish words and Lowlandish sentences at fist sight. But Upperlandish is also meant for the second sight."

Battus' book is a veritable feast... One gets easily overloaded with its astoundingly rich fare. I found it best consumed in small bites.
It is playful. It brings new perspective to the language phenomenon, revealing hitherto unknown dimensions. It makes the ordinary into the extraordinary. It kindles awe and love. Reading it gave me literally years of enjoyment.... thank you for reminding me of it.

Does such a book exist for the English language?

Edited by orandashoho
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So one active rikishi has the letter "p" in his shikona. Whom would that be?

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13 hours ago, orandashoho said:

@chisafuwaku, it's a pity you don't speak Dutch. If you did, you'd have a ball with the works of Battus (pseudonym of Hugo Brand Corstius). He spent a lifetime researching the Dutch language for amusing properties and coined the phrase "Opperlands" (Upperlandish) as a more erudite form of  "Nederlands" (Netherlandish, the Dutch word for the Dutch language).

He published a book "Opperlandse Taal- en letterkunde" (1981), in which he has also classified and ordered all the peculiarities he found.
https://www.dbnl.org/tekst/bran023oppe01_01/ 

In 2002, an extended version was published under the title "Opperlans!"
"Second edition, completely revised, extended, systematized, provided with new errors, absolutely ultimate internet edition downloaded in 676 printed pages" 
At first it sets the "Upperland Constitution": "Upperlandish is Lowlandish on vacation. Upperlandish is Lowlandish without the nasty usefulness that language carries with it. Upperlandish words and Upperlandish sentences look like Lowlandish words and Lowlandish sentences at fist sight. But Upperlandish is also meant for the second sight."

Battus' book is a veritable feast... One gets easily overloaded with its astoundingly rich fare. I found it best consumed in small bites.
It is playful. It brings new perspective to the language phenomenon, revealing hitherto unknown dimensions. It makes the ordinary into the extraordinary. It kindles awe and love. Reading it gave me literally years of enjoyment.... thank you for reminding me of it.

Does such a book exist for the English language?

I need to learn Dutch!

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1 hour ago, Naganoyama said:

I need to learn Dutch!

It's not a big world language any more, with a paltry 23 million speakers or so, counting Afrikaans and Flemish. Hardly worth mentioning on the world stage, but soldiering on despite the pressures of global economy and the lure of internationalizing education. But thanks, if you ever make the effort. And I suppose you could still peruse the text of the book via above link to get the idea, even not knowing Dutch. After all, Upperlandish is dealing with the form rather than the meaning of the Dutch words and sentences. 

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We're getting off-topic and I don't know enough about books to judge if there is something like that from Battus, but my favorite English language book is (of course) the Devil's dictionary.

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10 minutes ago, Akinomaki said:

We're getting off-topic and I don't know enough about books to judge if there is something like that from Battus, but my favorite English language book is (of course) the Devil's dictionary.

Nice, but that is a book about about meaning not form.
I found an English Wikipedia page: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opperlandse_taal-_%26_letterkunde
OK, I'll stop this babble about language now, let's get back to sumo. Aki is starting in just a few days!

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The day 5 east juryo doyho-iri was a Kise-beya parade -  all 6 of them in juryo were in it, also west Akiseyama - and there are more of them just below to expand on this 6-0 achievement http://sumodb.sumogames.de/Banzuke_text.aspx?b=201809

Was there ever in modern days a dohyo-iri with one side more than half from one heya and none on the other side? Kise might achieve that some day.

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In Hatsu 1971, Tochiazuma "Tochiazuma's dad" Tomoyori went 2-13 with a fusensho and a kinboshi.

Has there ever been another instance of a rikishi who completed a basho without going kyujo and whose only wins he had a say in were against yokozuna?

Edited by Atenzan
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3 hours ago, Atenzan said:

In Hatsu 1971, Tochiazuma "Tochiazuma's dad" Tomoyori went 2-13 with a fusensho and a kinboshi.

Has there ever been another instance of a rikishi who completed a basho without going kyujo and whose only wins he had a say in were against yokozuna?

Not quite the answer to your question but in Aki 2009 Shotenro went 2-13 and one of his wins was against Hakuho.

 

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After day 7 in Juryo, 75% of the rikishi have 4-3 or 3-4 records, second only to 2017 Natsu with 79%. That ended with a 10-5 Nishikigi yusho and 7 9-6 "jun-yusho" rikishi.

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18 hours ago, Tsuchinoninjin said:

After day 7 in Juryo, 75% of the rikishi have 4-3 or 3-4 records, second only to 2017 Natsu with 79%. That ended with a 10-5 Nishikigi yusho and 7 9-6 "jun-yusho" rikishi.

I'd be cool with a 10-5 Aminishiki yusho.

Edit:

Aminishiki now should be the oldest makuuchi visitor from juryo ever to receive kensho.

Edited by Benihana

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6 minutes ago, Atenzan said:

Would anyone like to lend me their wisdom and tell me what's the right query to search for the rikishi with the most makuuchi aite faced? 

@Asashosakari, @Jakusotsu, @Gurowake, perhaps? 

http://sumodb.sumogames.de/Query_bout.aspx?show_form=0&group_by=rikishi1&group_by2=rikishi2&having=50

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