Trivia bits

[Asashosakari 18,670]

Some thus far unique achievements:

makushita yusho -> juryo makekoshi -> makushita yusho
sandanme yusho -> makushita makekoshi -> sandanme yusho
jonidan yusho -> sandanme makekoshi -> jonidan yusho

It hasn't happened Jk->Jd->Jk yet, largely because it's nearly impossible to fall straight back to jonokuchi after a yusho there (the promotion jumps are too large). But if we go to two MK in between, it's unique again.

The highest possible combination J->M->J has happened twice. (Spotting Terao's case was the inspiration for this post.)

 

[Asashosakari 18,670]

And in the same vein:

Ms yusho -> J makekoshi -> J yusho (unique)
Sd yusho -> Ms makekoshi -> Ms yusho (unique)
Jk yusho -> Jd makekoshi -> Jd yusho (twice)

Jd->Sd->Sd hasn't happened yet, nor has J->M->M.

For completeness, as these are the only two lower divisions where it's possible:

Ms yusho -> Ms makekoshi -> Ms yusho (unique, and you might know this one already)
J yusho -> J makekoshi -> J yusho (three times)

More generally speaking, it's rare for somebody to win two divisional yusho of any sort and not be kachikoshi in between. (Although the query demonstrates that it constituted a fairly large share between around 1965 and 1995, in large part because the "KK in between" version didn't happen that often either. It's different nowadays with many lower-division yusho being won by accomplished = very underranked ex-amateurs, who are very unlikely to MK.)

Edited April 4, 2018 by Asashosakari

[Benihana 1,900]

I'm waiting for the first one to Makushita yusho -> Juryo yusho -> Makuuchi yusho.

The closest so far was Kotokaze with Ms8w 7-0Y -> J11w 14-1Y -> M14w 12-3J.

On a side-note, only 4 modern-era rikishi yushoed from Ms to M  needing only 2 basho. Query results

 

Tochinoshin and Miyabiyama were the only m-e rikishi to score 4 consecutive yusho, without being Yokozuna. Both did Ms Y - Ms Y - J Y - J Y. I'm curious if Miyabiyama had grabbed the chance for Ms Y - Ms Y - J Y - M Y, if he had been promoted to M15e instead of J1w after his first juryo yusho. Query results

The only rikishi with 5 consecutive yusho without being Yokozuna is old-timer Haguroyama, who had Jk Y - Jd Y - Sd Y - Ms Y - J Y, but that was 1935. Query results

 

 

 

Edited April 4, 2018 by Benihana

[orandashoho 720]

I wish there was a "WOW!" like. An astounded-open-mouthed-WTF-I-don"t-BELIEVE-it like. To hear of such records and realize what a monumental achievement that is. I have no words.

Deep, deep bow.

Edited April 4, 2018 by orandashoho

[Shinrei 47]

On 1/21/2018 at 15:17, Yukiarashi said:

How about a very arrogant Yokozuna that's named I?

So, this thread got me a-thinkin'.

(fair warning, more punnery ahead)

Foreign-born rikishi: sources of curiosity, concern, and controversy. Two men from Argentina reached high Juryo a young generation ago. No man from Spain, so far, has entered sumo, nor has any man from a Spanish-speaking country had the success as those two from Argentina. Yet. 

Let's say, for the sake of the upcoming silliness, such a man does move to Japan and does become a rikishi. His rising through the lower ranks could be gradual, yet with the sweetness of popular acclaim, like the pouring of milk and honey. Granted, it's easy to see this as so very unlikely as a double fantasy.    

It could happen someday. And if that day comes, it's alright. It's also quite possible that wags like me, with such thoughts between my head and the sky, will call him: Yoko-uno

 

Ah, but what of Kaisei you may ask? (It's OK, you may ask.)

He is among those men from Brazil (where they speak Portuguese) who became rikishi and, at this writing, has achieved the highest rank of them at Sekiwake. For the sake of more punnery, let's say Kaisei gets the big white rope. Then he could be a... Yokozuma.

[Sakura 1,463]

Sorry if this has been done before. I couldn't find it anywhere.

I've been intrigued by W-L-A results that are palindromes. I restricted my search to sekitori during the 15 days per basho era and have come up with the following

2-11-2 - 9 instances. Most recently Juzan in 2003. A mixture of mid-basho absence and withdrawing on Day 13. 

3-9-3 - 19 instances. Most recently, Aminishiki in January 2018. More mid basho absences than one might imagine.

4-7-4 - 18 instances. Most recently, Sotairyu in 2015. Intriguingly, Kotoyutaka had a fusen loss on Day 9, then returned on Day 14 and got a win, by fusen.

5-5-5 - 11 instances. Most recently, Kyokushuho in 2013. 6 Yokozuna results in this one, including 2 by Asashoryu. 

6-3-6 - 6 instances. Most recently, Aoiyama in 2012. 

7-1-7 - 0 instances. 

[WAKATAKE 2,624]

2 hours ago, Sakura said:

Sorry if this has been done before. I couldn't find it anywhere.

I've been intrigued by W-L-A results that are palindromes. I restricted my search to sekitori during the 15 days per basho era and have come up with the following

2-11-2 - 9 instances. Most recently Juzan in 2003. A mixture of mid-basho absence and withdrawing on Day 13. 

3-9-3 - 19 instances. Most recently, Aminishiki in January 2018. More mid basho absences than one might imagine.

4-7-4 - 18 instances. Most recently, Sotairyu in 2015. Intriguingly, Kotoyutaka had a fusen loss on Day 9, then returned on Day 14 and got a win, by fusen.

5-5-5 - 11 instances. Most recently, Kyokushuho in 2013. 6 Yokozuna results in this one, including 2 by Asashoryu. 

6-3-6 - 6 instances. Most recently, Aoiyama in 2012. 

7-1-7 - 0 instances. 

Kotoyuki got to 1-13-1 this last basho, completely forgot about that.

http://sumodb.sumogames.de/Query.aspx?show_form=0&columns=1&n_basho=1&form1_rank=Y-J&form1_wins=1&form1_losses=13&form1_year=1949-2018

[Sakura 1,463]

8 hours ago, WAKATAKE said:

Kotoyuki got to 1-13-1 this last basho, completely forgot about that.

http://sumodb.sumogames.de/Query.aspx?show_form=0&columns=1&n_basho=1&form1_rank=Y-J&form1_wins=1&form1_losses=13&form1_year=1949-2018

True, but I don't consider that palindromic (at least not in `Arabic' numerals), since the 13 is not palindromic.

[Gurowake 3,886]

11 hours ago, Sakura said:

True, but I don't consider that palindromic (at least not in `Arabic' numerals), since the 13 is not palindromic.

You're not thinking hexadecimally!  With 15 days in the Basho to change any one of the numbers, there are 16 possible values for each number considering they start at zero.

[Sakura 1,463]

5 minutes ago, Gurowake said:

You're not thinking hexadecimally!  

I can't deny that.

[Yukiarashi 195]

There's also mid-basho Kyujo-Intai palindromes. Say a rikishi goes 2-7, kyujo for three days and intais during the basho with a 2-8-2 record. It's possible to only be an active rikishi 12 days in a 15 day basho to get there, though it's a lot more rare.

 

[Sakura 1,463]

1 hour ago, Yukiarashi said:

There's also mid-basho Kyujo-Intai palindromes. Say a rikishi goes 2-7, kyujo for three days and intais during the basho with a 2-8-2 record. It's possible to only be an active rikishi 12 days in a 15 day basho to get there, though it's a lot more rare.

 

Very true. It did occur to me that there could be other scenarios than the ones I mentioned above, but I hadn't put any thought into what those might be. Thank you for the idea.

EDIT @Yukiarashi. I did a search using your suggestion and I did find a few mid basho kuyjo-intai situations as you suggested, but none of them were palindromic.

Edited April 12, 2018 by Sakura

[Shinrei 47]

In case it hasn't been done already, here's one for the banzuke boffins. I was looking at the bout history of Takekaze and thought – has he held every Maegashira rank that was available?

So... if it's not him, who has held the most available ranks within Maegashira since 1968?

How about Juryo? ... Jonokuchi?

[Jakusotsu 5,757]

I see only Tamakasuga with no holes in his Maegashira career card. The best I can find in Juryo is Kobo who only missed J2w, J8e, J11e, J13w. (The best in the 28-Juryo-era is Satoyama .)

[orandashoho 720]

How about Kyokutenho -- all Maegashira positions from M1 down to M15 and all Juryo except J10 and J14.

[Jakusotsu 5,757]

4 hours ago, orandashoho said:

How about Kyokutenho -- all Maegashira positions from M1 down to M15 and all Juryo except J10 and J14.

I distinguished between east and west side as different ranks. Also, J14 wasn't really an option for Kyokutenho unless you take his punitive one-time-demotion into account.

[Shinrei 47]

8 hours ago, Jakusotsu said:

I distinguished between east and west side as different ranks.

That is in accord with my intent.  

[Jabbamaru 166]

silly doubt...some rikishi's uses their surname instead a shikona. Shodai, Endo, Ozeki Takayasu...But they are all japanese. If a mongol or other gaijin wants to use his surname...its posible?

[Akinomaki 39,581]

2 hours ago, Jabbamaru said:

silly doubt...some rikishi's uses their surname instead a shikona. Shodai, Endo, Ozeki Takayasu...But they are all japanese. If a mongol or other gaijin wants to use his surname...its posible?

If the name is written in kanji. A Chinese rikishi could use his, but with a Japanese reading. Also Koreans used to have names in written in kanji in the past, so they could search for an old kanji writing for their name - and also would have to use a Japanese or at least katakana style reading. Others would have to put some kanji together which produce a reading similar to the name.

Edited April 21, 2018 by Akinomaki

[Yamanashi 3,689]

My guess is that this would have to start with an oyakata -- maybe a Mongolian like Tomozuna (ex-Kyokutenho) or other foreigner like Naruto (ex-Kotooshu).  On the other hand, these may want to mollify the Committee by being sufficiently "conservative" about such practices.

Isn't the major hurdle to using foreign shikona the fact that there are so few Japanese surnames that have homonyms in other languages (I know, you can think of dozens, but I can't).

If they could use first names, there are several rikishi who would have pleasant-sounding shikona.  Baruto Kaito's first name is actually Kaido!  Unfortunately, his last name is Höövelson.

[Asashosakari 18,670]

1 hour ago, Yamanashi said:

My guess is that this would have to start with an oyakata -- maybe a Mongolian like Tomozuna (ex-Kyokutenho) or other foreigner like Naruto (ex-Kotooshu).  On the other hand, these may want to mollify the Committee by being sufficiently "conservative" about such practices.

Start what? Shikona in katakana (or heaven forbid, romaji) becoming acceptable? Never gonna happen. This isn't NPB where players are commonly referred to by their real names, making non-kanji scripts a necessity for foreign team members. Shikona are names expressly adopted for the purpose of participating in Ozumo - even somebody like Endo isn't "competing under his real name", he's competing under a shikona that simply happens to match his real name. If somebody named Schmidt, Johnson, Volkov or Battugs wishes to insist on competing under his birth name, there are plenty of other types of wrestling for him to go into.

[rhyen 1,801]

19 hours ago, Asashosakari said:

Start what? Shikona in katakana (or heaven forbid, romaji) becoming acceptable? Never gonna happen. This isn't NPB where players are commonly referred to by their real names, making non-kanji scripts a necessity for foreign team members. Shikona are names expressly adopted for the purpose of participating in Ozumo - even somebody like Endo isn't "competing under his real name", he's competing under a shikona that simply happens to match his real name. If somebody named Schmidt, Johnson, Volkov or Battugs wishes to insist on competing under his birth name, there are plenty of other types of wrestling for him to go into.

True, I still like it when Ichinojo's shikona sounds a lot like his first name. 

Is it just mere coincidence?

[Yamanashi 3,689]

Well, my point is that the rikishi's real name would have to seem "natural" to the Japanese language.  If my first name were Ken, it wouldn't seem strange to have that name in Japan (though a person might say "Hmm, how did this foreigner get a Japanese given name?").  There don't seem to be any non-Asian surnames I can think of that would "pass" as an acceptable Japanese surname, let alone pass the test of sounding and looking "Sumo-like".

To the first point:  The DB is down now, but when I checked "Endo" and "Shodai", there were multiple predecessors, almost all with the family name "Endo" or "Shodai".  I've only come up with single examples of "Baruto" ... or "Torakio".

Postscript 1:  My comments about the foreign Oyakata only suggests that they may "think outside the box" more when establishing their new heya.  Of the first five uchi-deshi from the new Narutobeya, only one (Oshozan) seems to have a shikona relating to the Oyakata or the stable (though, of course, I may be wrong).

Postscript 2: I don't remember receiving this information from the Forum, but I guess there is some oversight (at least unofficially) from the NSK on assigning shikona.  So, no crazy ideas would ultimately get through?

Postscript 3: I seem to be getting jumped on more often for my opinions lately.  I take it as a badge of honor!

 

[torquato 1,075]

12 hours ago, Yamanashi said:

There don't seem to be any non-Asian surnames I can think of that would "pass" as an acceptable Japanese surname, let alone pass the test of sounding and looking "Sumo-like".

The name of the last president of the US would have qualified perfectly well, don't you think?

[Yamanashi 3,689]

6 minutes ago, torquato said:

The name of the last president of the US would have qualified perfectly well, don't you think?

Ah, yes, I forgot about that one. Named for that little fishing village where they make all those chopsticks