Natsu 2015 Basho Talk (spoiler alert!)

[Highway 46]

But he is meeting the minimum standarsts at least, it is why he is still an Ozeki. Like it or not, kachi-koshi is all that is needed. If they wanted to maintain a higher standard, they should bump that up to 9 wins minimum, but that's not on the cards.

Goeido deserves every bit of criticism he gets and i could care less how hard he tries or his limited ability. If he could not perform at the championship ranks then he should not have been promoted (Scraping a .500 record as oz). If Ichi (been disappointed with him this basho) or Osu get promoted to ozeki then I would at least expect them to flirt with DD in a calendar year. It just devalues the Ozeki rank (which for the longest time was the summit) to have rank holders that cannot meet its standards even on an intermittent basis. That is a different level of responsibility than a rising guy toiling in the junior sanyaku ranks and getting tossed back to the pack if they fail to perform.

[kosomo 32]

But he is meeting the minimum standarsts at least, it is why he is still an Ozeki. Like it or not, kachi-koshi is all that is needed. If they wanted to maintain a higher standard, they should bump that up to 9 wins minimum, but that's not on the cards.

Goeido deserves every bit of criticism he gets and i could care less how hard he tries or his limited ability. If he could not perform at the championship ranks then he should not have been promoted (Scraping a .500 record as oz). If Ichi (been disappointed with him this basho) or Osu get promoted to ozeki then I would at least expect them to flirt with DD in a calendar year. It just devalues the Ozeki rank (which for the longest time was the summit) to have rank holders that cannot meet its standards even on an intermittent basis. That is a different level of responsibility than a rising guy toiling in the junior sanyaku ranks and getting tossed back to the pack if they fail to perform.

I thought that ozeki are essentially yokuzuna in everything but name/ring entrance ceremony? regardless, to me there is a higher standards/expectations to meet as an ozeki. single digit wins each basho seems pretty crappy for those a rank away from yokuzuna. I would expect them to be a bit more of a challenge.

[Highway 46]

Well you're right that the current crop of Ozeki really aren't putting up good numbers - only Kisenasato has at least been somewhat in the running in the last few days in past tournaments, from what I recall. However, I think there is a much bigger difference between say yokozuna and ozeki than ozeki and sekiwake...to be a yokozuna, you don't just need good numbers, you need to be winning entire bashos. Though ironically it's also the only one from which you can't be demoted....

But he is meeting the minimum standarsts at least, it is why he is still an Ozeki. Like it or not, kachi-koshi is all that is needed. If they wanted to maintain a higher standard, they should bump that up to 9 wins minimum, but that's not on the cards.

Goeido deserves every bit of criticism he gets and i could care less how hard he tries or his limited ability. If he could not perform at the championship ranks then he should not have been promoted (Scraping a .500 record as oz). If Ichi (been disappointed with him this basho) or Osu get promoted to ozeki then I would at least expect them to flirt with DD in a calendar year. It just devalues the Ozeki rank (which for the longest time was the summit) to have rank holders that cannot meet its standards even on an intermittent basis. That is a different level of responsibility than a rising guy toiling in the junior sanyaku ranks and getting tossed back to the pack if they fail to perform.

I thought that ozeki are essentially yokuzuna in everything but name/ring entrance ceremony? regardless, to me there is a higher standards/expectations to meet as an ozeki. single digit wins each basho seems pretty crappy for those a rank away from yokuzuna. I would expect them to be a bit more of a challenge.

[Asojima 2,873]

But he is meeting the minimum standarsts at least, it is why he is still an Ozeki. Like it or not, kachi-koshi is all that is needed. If they wanted to maintain a higher standard, they should bump that up to 9 wins minimum, but that's not on the cards.

I thought that ozeki are essentially yokuzuna in everything but name/ring entrance ceremony? regardless, to me there is a higher standards/expectations to meet as an ozeki. single digit wins each basho seems pretty crappy for those a rank away from yokuzuna. I would expect them to be a bit more of a challenge.

An Ozeki who is no longer in the yusho race has ZERO incentive to win more than 8 matches. His only incentive is to avoid injury and avoid kadoban. It would be nice if the NSK changed the rule to require an Ozeki to get 9 or 10 wins to avoid kadoban for the next basho. Make them win a few extra matches to pay for the insurance.

[Vikanohara 171]

Harumafuji is the master at defeating himself...

I think that master is Toyohibiki, but Harumafuji sometimes is too eager, yes.

[Shitamachi 21]

I also enjoyed seeing the big grin on Tamawashi's face as he walked back to the dressing rooms after his bout with Harumafuji. I like to see that it means something to these guys to knock off a Yokozuna. Likewise Tokushoryu looked elated when he beat Terunofuji.

Me too! Tokushoryu practically skipped back to his position on the dohyo!

[I am the Yokozuna 188]

I should have added that if there is a Japanese rikishi to be criticized for underperforming that should definitely be Tochiozan. In my mind, he could have been at least a regular sekiwake but seems to switch on and off and not to care about what he wants to do.

Haruma won two tournaments in a year since his promotion. Kakuryu has not won a second one, or even challenged seriously for a second title. The comparison is valid since both of them got promoted in the time of Hakuho's dominance. Yet, not many turn the criticism they have stated against Goeido and his lackluster performance or his hasty promotion or whatever in the same light and examine Kakuryu's results, performance and some say hasty promotion.

Edited May 19, 2015 by I am the Yokozuna

[Mongolith 51]

Maybe its just me but I never really notice Kak despite him being a Yok. He is just kind of there getting 10-12 wins, when he loses/wins a bout its usually not memorable (Like for example how Hara did Kise dirty with the nodowa), and his absence likely has not affected the Yusho race (Yes its going to be Hak again). They tried to lower the bar for Kise and it ended up being Kak who took advantage. Plus he has been gone the last two bashos so nobody has given him much thought.

Edited May 19, 2015 by Mongolith

[Kintamayama 44,646]

Kakuryuu is doing just fine as a Yokozuna. Most of you can't remember how well yokozunae do when the field is more even and not when there is a totally dominant one. Except for 9 wins in his first bashos as a yokozuna, he has won 11,11,12 and 10 before getting injured. Those are average (before the phenom) records-compare these to other Yokozunae and it's pretty good.

Kakuryuu is a quiet Yokozuuna you never read anything about. That doesn't make him a bad yokozuna.

Some even say Harumafuji is not a worthy yokozuna. He hasn't had less than 10 wins when healthy since March 2013 and had 2 yushos and 2 jun-yushos. Good enough for anyone. All this, under a very dominant Yokozuna.

Ozekis? These last ten years, all Ozeki were inconsistent at best. We tend to romanticize the KaioU/ Chiyotaikai era, but in its latter years, it was embarrassing to watch as well with its 8-7s and shenanigans. .

[Jakusotsu 5,874]

Chiyomaru just got the dummy award.

[torquato 1,075]

geeze... that was appalling!

[Kotogouryuu 127]

I should have added that if there is a Japanese rikishi to be criticized for underperforming that should definitely be Tochiozan.

I wonder if his injuries have left him permanently hindered. He just doesn't seem to have the ability that he did when he was the ozeki candidate.

[kumoryu 88]

Kakuryuu is doing just fine as a Yokozuna. Most of you can't remember how well yokozunae do when the field is more even and not when there is a totally dominant one. Except for 9 wins in his first bashos as a yokozuna, he has won 11,11,12 and 10 before getting injured. Those are average (before the phenom) records-compare these to other Yokozunae and it's pretty good.

I did try that comparison.

Kakuryu is new, so we've just got one year as a Yokozuna. How does that compare to the first year of other Yokozuna?

Kakuryu only once achieved 12 or more wins during that year -- which I think is pretty much the marker for contending for yusho. Harumafuji also did it just once in his first six basho as Yokozuna.

If I've counted right, of the 20 previous Yokozuna (#50 - #69) only one other -- Kotozakura -- only once reached 12 wins in his first year. For those 20 previous, the average is 3.4 times during the first year. However you slice and dice it, it looks the same: split those 20 Yokozuna into an older half and a more recent half, the averages are 3.5 times and 3.3 times respectively. Take out all the Yokozuna with more than ten yusho, the average for the rest is 2.8 times. Promoted in the 1970s: 3.3 times; in the 1980s: 3.0 times; in the 1990s: 3.7 times.

[torquato 1,075]

Errmm... Who said Gaga is on a Oseki-run..? :-D

[Doitsuyama 1,173]

Anyway, that contact to the ground matters was demonstrated quite well in the rematch - Sadanoumi looked far from elegant in his ballerina act falling across the tawara, but he did keep one foot down while Harumafuji was fully invested in Mongolian Airlines again. Consequently, no mono-ii, even though purely on "who lands first?" grounds it was probably closer than the first one.

I would like to reopen that topic and hear from you why Fujiazuma exactly lost to Jokoryu today? Jokoryu was airborne while Fujiazuma (who was the attacker as well) had a foot on the dohyo all the time. Granted, Fujiazuma's elbow touched down first, but going by your explanation this shouldn't matter as soon as Jokoryu is shinitai with Fujiazuma still inside the dohyo.

[Pandaazuma 1,310]

Was in the stadium today...and personally witnessing Harumafuji not giving a damn for the second day in a row makes me wonder when they will start demanding his head...if only to stop all the money they are paying out in ridiculous, needless kinboshi.

Edited May 19, 2015 by Pandaazuma

[Morty 1,483]

Kakuryuu is doing just fine as a Yokozuna. Most of you can't remember how well yokozunae do when the field is more even and not when there is a totally dominant one. Except for 9 wins in his first bashos as a yokozuna, he has won 11,11,12 and 10 before getting injured. Those are average (before the phenom) records-compare these to other Yokozunae and it's pretty good.

Kakuryuu is a quiet Yokozuuna you never read anything about. That doesn't make him a bad yokozuna.

Some even say Harumafuji is not a worthy yokozuna. He hasn't had less than 10 wins when healthy since March 2013 and had 2 yushos and 2 jun-yushos. Good enough for anyone. All this, under a very dominant Yokozuna.

Ozekis? These last ten years, all Ozeki were inconsistent at best. We tend to romanticize the KaioU/ Chiyotaikai era, but in its latter years, it was embarrassing to watch as well with its 8-7s and shenanigans. .

While most of the Ozekis have been a bit mediocre, since becoming an Ozeki, Kisenosato has got 10.36 wins per basho, with six jun-yusho in 20 basho. Take out the one 7-8 and he has got at least 9 wins in every basho since becoming ozeki. These are Ozeki numbers and are similar to Kak and Harumafuji over the same period. The difference is that Kise has done it without coming up with a yusho when it counts. But statistically he is a very good Ozeki and if he could get over the tendency to choke at the wrong time, I reckon he would also be a good Yokozuna

[Asashosakari 18,968]

I would like to reopen that topic and hear from you why Fujiazuma exactly lost to Jokoryu today? Jokoryu was airborne while Fujiazuma (who was the attacker as well) had a foot on the dohyo all the time. Granted, Fujiazuma's elbow touched down first, but going by your explanation this shouldn't matter as soon as Jokoryu is shinitai with Fujiazuma still inside the dohyo.

We're talking about what looks like less than 0.15 seconds of real time difference in this case. You're the last person I expected to make a "how could they miss that when it's so obvious in the super-super-slowmo replay?" claim... Anyway, IMHO shinitai is for readily apparent cases of airborneness, not split-second deals like that.

Edit: The right call on that bout would have been a torinaoshi, I daresay, although ironically if they had actually called a mono-ii, they probably would have confirmed Jokoryu's victory, I suspect.

Edited May 19, 2015 by Asashosakari

[808morgan 805]

I was there today, lots of fun. I met Brodi Henderson (sp?) the Canadian outside when I was waiting for all the rikishi to walk by. I had a long talk with him about how its been going. I told him how I felt at OCS in the Marines, probably pretty similar in physical and mental challenges, and he had to move to Japan. I remember when I first moved here, it was confusing. I was right next to Ichi, he is big! I met gold hat guy and he gave me a sticker, awesome guy. An old woman near the dohyo became ill and had to be carried out, guess who was holding the front of the stretcher? Kotooshu Oyakata! I had the box that is right over one of the lower hallway doors, on the TV camera side. I saw Houmasho Oyakata as well. I will post some pictures one of these days.

[Doitsuyama 1,173]

I would like to reopen that topic and hear from you why Fujiazuma exactly lost to Jokoryu today? Jokoryu was airborne while Fujiazuma (who was the attacker as well) had a foot on the dohyo all the time. Granted, Fujiazuma's elbow touched down first, but going by your explanation this shouldn't matter as soon as Jokoryu is shinitai with Fujiazuma still inside the dohyo.

We're talking about what looks like less than 0.15 seconds of real time difference in this case. You're the last person I expected to make a "how could they miss that when it's so obvious in the super-super-slowmo replay?" claim... Anyway, IMHO shinitai is for readily apparent cases of airborneness, not split-second deals like that.

Edit: The right call on that bout would have been a torinaoshi, I daresay, although ironically if they had actually called a mono-ii, they probably would have confirmed Jokoryu's victory, I suspect.

Not sure what you are meaning with "super-super-slowmo". I saw everything in the first view of the bout, and the replay didn't reveal any new facts to me. It looked like a very typical case of "attacker gets the win with aite going airborne" even if he touches down a bit earlier. Happens frequently and is covered very well by your explanation. I was very surprised by the gyoji's decision so I asked, and your explanation isn't convincing me. This wasn't a "split-second deal", it was detectable without any "slowmo replay".

Edited May 19, 2015 by Doitsuyama

[808morgan 805]

I would like to reopen that topic and hear from you why Fujiazuma exactly lost to Jokoryu today? Jokoryu was airborne while Fujiazuma (who was the attacker as well) had a foot on the dohyo all the time. Granted, Fujiazuma's elbow touched down first, but going by your explanation this shouldn't matter as soon as Jokoryu is shinitai with Fujiazuma still inside the dohyo.

We're talking about what looks like less than 0.15 seconds of real time difference in this case. You're the last person I expected to make a "how could they miss that when it's so obvious in the super-super-slowmo replay?" claim... Anyway, IMHO shinitai is for readily apparent cases of airborneness, not split-second deals like that.

Edit: The right call on that bout would have been a torinaoshi, I daresay, although ironically if they had actually called a mono-ii, they probably would have confirmed Jokoryu's victory, I suspect.

Yeah I was there today and I had no idea what the outcome was until they walked away.

[808morgan 805]

Was in the stadium today...and personally witnessing Harumafuji not giving a damn for the second day in a row makes me wonder when they will start demanding his head...if only to stop all the money they are paying out in ridiculous, needless kinboshi.

I was there too, fun day! I watched Kotooshu help carry and old woman out, I met gold hat guy! Awesome day, I was right next to a bunch of the rikishi outside and I met Brodi the Canadian and had a chat.

[dingo 1,212]

Winning today's bout against Ichinojo would've been a big step towards sanyakuhood for Takarafuji. Alas, it didn't happen. While there are a couple of rikishi who could eke out a kachikoshi in upper maegashira, if that doesn't happen then we could see some interesting banzuke-making should some of the current sanyaku drop down.

I'm happy for Gagamaru, seeing him walk out from the arena and giving the interview he was overflowing with joy. Good for him!

And not to inflame the Hakuho vs other Yokozuna discussion more, but I think people want to see the other Yokozuna providing a more constant challenge for the yusho. They did it when they got promoted, but now we're in a slump. I mean, the closest rival to Hakuho at the moment is Kaisei!

[lackmaker 434]

Winning today's bout against Ichinojo would've been a big step towards sanyakuhood for Takarafuji. Alas, it didn't happen. While there are a couple of rikishi who could eke out a kachikoshi in upper maegashira, if that doesn't happen then we could see some interesting banzuke-making should some of the current sanyaku drop down.

With only lower ranked opposition left and at least one of the sanyaku probably dropping down Takarafuji has every opportunity of sanyakuhood. And it certainly helps belonging to his stable.

[CT3* 331]

I was there today, lots of fun. I met Brodi Henderson (sp?) the Canadian outside when I was waiting for all the rikishi to walk by. I had a long talk with him about how its been going. I told him how I felt at OCS in the Marines, probably pretty similar in physical and mental challenges, and he had to move to Japan. I remember when I first moved here, it was confusing. I was right next to Ichi, he is big! I met gold hat guy and he gave me a sticker, awesome guy. An old woman near the dohyo became ill and had to be carried out, guess who was holding the front of the stretcher? Kotooshu Oyakata! I had the box that is right over one of the lower hallway doors, on the TV camera side. I saw Houmasho Oyakata as well. I will post some pictures one of these days.

Gold Hat Guy is a trip, isn't he? I met him at the January basho and got a few pics of him. Also got a great shot with former Kitazakura.