Natsu 2015 Basho Talk (spoiler alert!)

[orandashoho 720]

I can recall there having been a bad boy Yokozuna. Surely the champion in any sport has a responsibility to be a good role model, sumo champions even much more because they literally embody Japanese culture. But a winning technique is a winning technique and on the dohyo winning is a serious thing. I don't know what prompts Hakuho to coose his technique. Maybe he got unnerved by Aminishiki and wanted a quick finish?

[Yubinhaad 11,501]

For what it's worth - Ichinojo flew to Osaka for treatment on his left shoulder on Monday evening. I don't know the nature of the injury, but he's had some flesh-coloured taping all over it since then, so perhaps that's inhibiting his performance somewhat.

[kuroimori 1,634]

For what it's worth - Ichinojo flew to Osaka for treatment on his left shoulder on Monday evening. I don't know the nature of the injury, but he's had some flesh-coloured taping all over it since then, so perhaps that's inhibiting his performance somewhat.

There were quite a lot of rikishi who hobbled back the hana-michi injured after their respective bouts today:

Kotoyuki - appeared to have injured his knee, again...?

Takayasu - limped back slowly, dunno could be anything, once again Tokushoryu was in a bout that resulted in an injury

Osunaarashi - shoulder, as mentioned by Kintamayama in a separate thread.

[Mongolith 51]

Pretty exciting day with everyone & their mothers tied for the lead, the ozeki uncomfortably close to all losing in the same day (Yet again), and Endo picking his 1st win looking half decent. Don't know what juju Shin has over Ichi but he seems mentally defeated before even facing him and inevitably losing. Don't care much for the Yok's elbow (or that technique used by anyone) but at least Hak does not employ it too often.

Edited May 16, 2015 by Mongolith

[dingo 1,119]

Would be fun if by the end of the basho we had a playoff between Kaisei, Takayasu and Hakuho. I know it's not gonna happen, but would be fun nonetheless.

So far I've been partial to giving Goeido's Ozekihood the benefit of the doubt, but he's really clueless sometimes -- more clueless than an Ozeki should be.

Takarafuji has shown sanyaku quality sumo for at least a couple of basho. He's had a bit of bad banzuke luck also, but his performance is solid.

Gagamaru is doing surprisingly well (and by that I mean hasn't lost all his bouts) at this rank. Maybe Shin-Gagamaru really has been born? ;)

And was Hakuho afraid of Sadanofuji of all people or something? That kachiage was totally unnecessary.

Edited May 16, 2015 by dingo

[Lizard72 4]

They way I see it Hakuho's got to at least show everyone that he will use whatever technique he feels will win the fight. It's not like all he does is elbow. It's his obligation to trey to remain unpredictable and when the others think they have a pattern for getting to you is when you throw a curve and show them it might not be wise to go t=down that path.

[Benevolance 2,462]

I'm ambivalent about the kachiage. I'm not particularly fond of it, because it's a bit crass and brain injuries are a serious thing; at the same time it's legit, and if I were a wrestler and could lay out a strong forearm that dazed my opponent, I'd totally use it. On that note, I think Harumafuji would be more successful if the YDC didn't poo-poo his harite so much.

Neither Endo nor Jokoryu will face anyone who's going to figure into the yusho decision

WRONG! Because the script says that Takayasu will triumph over Terunofuji for the yusho in a sudden death playoff. On a dohyo made entirely of molten lava! Filled with lava snakes! Integrity be damned!

[Gurowake 3,875]

Goeido is still on track in his effort to gain the title of the most lackluster Ozeki in recent memory.

*cough* Miyabiyama *cough*

Hey, Miyabiyama had 9 wins as an Ozeki on two occasions. As lackluster as MIyabiyama was, Goeido with his 8, 8, 5 and 8 wins is demonstrable more so.

[Kasutera 258]

Goeido has not just LOST several matches this basho, but has gotten CLOWNED by opponents who should not be able to beat an Ozek as handily as they did.

[Sumozumo 240]

Goeido got clowned by maegashira for the many years he spent at Sekiwaki, but always managed to put together 8 wins somehow. He should be springing up and down like Aoiyama but he just sticks there. The man is a mystery.

[CT3* 331]

Sumo is a combat sport and these guys can handle a well placed kachiage. Its a legal technique. Not my favourite, but neither are henkas. But they are both part of the sport and all rikishi need to be able to defend against it.

And a kachiage employs the forearm, not the elbow. Big difference.

[Gurowake 3,875]

Goeido got clowned by maegashira for the many years he spent at Sekiwaki, but always managed to put together 8 wins somehow. He should be springing up and down like Aoiyama but he just sticks there. The man is a mystery.

He didn't always. Twice he only got 7 and they had no one else to put there. It may not have mattered in the long-run if you look at subsequent results, but you never know about rikishis' morale when they're faced with week-one Komusubi schedules instead of Sekiwake schedules.

[Masumasumasu 902]

Sumo is a combat sport and these guys can handle a well placed kachiage. Its a legal technique. Not my favourite, but neither are henkas. But they are both part of the sport and all rikishi need to be able to defend against it.

And a kachiage employs the forearm, not the elbow. Big difference.

Kachi-age is an act of desperation. It ought to be beneath the 'greatest' Yokozuna whoever lived.

[Pandaazuma 1,310]

I'm wondering, MMM, at your singular obsession with denigrating Hakuho at every possible opportunity. I'm not defending his kachiage - I personally don't give a damn about it. But did Hakuho steal your Christmas presents once or something??

[Asashosakari 18,665]

Hakuho isn't giving him any opportunity to debate him, so...

[Masumasumasu 902]

We should make it illegal to criticize Hakuho. We can pretend that this is Thailand and Hakuho is the king.

[Masumasumasu 902]

I'm wondering, MMM, at your singular obsession with denigrating Hakuho at every possible opportunity. I'm not defending his kachiage - I personally don't give a damn about it. But did Hakuho steal your Christmas presents once or something??

You're awfully defensive. By the same token I could ask, "Did Hakuho give you a Christmas present once upon a time?" After all, why would you give a damn about my opinion unless you are personally invested in Hakuho?

[Sumozumo 240]

I heard the NSK will promote Kisenosato to Yokozuna with a 9-6 record this basho, maybe it will put him in a better mood...

[Asashosakari 18,665]

Hey, Miyabiyama had 9 wins as an Ozeki on two occasions. As lackluster as MIyabiyama was, Goeido with his 8, 8, 5 and 8 wins is demonstrable more so.

Not that it comes as a surprise, but there has never been an ozeki (in the 15-bout era) who failed to get 9 wins in every tournament at the rank. Goeido could be making history over the next few basho. ;-)

[luispereira 383]

keep pushing Terunofuji!!

[Pandaazuma 1,310]

MMM: For a guy who likes to 'debate', you are not beneath a few logical fallacies, I see. My question did not in any way imply that we should not criticise Hakuho. Further, I am not defensive at all, nor am I in any way 'invested' in Hakuho. Personally I am ambivalent towards him and I have my own criticisms.

No, I am simply curious as to your obsession with Hakuho. And your attempts to evade the question with child-like responses are disappointing. Why not simply answer my question?

You remind me a bit of that lad who always comes out of the woodwork when there's a scandal...Peterao? His behaviour was rather fascinating during the yaocho scandal.

Edited May 17, 2015 by Pandaazuma

[Taigiin khuu 42]

I realize many folks here don't like to see shinitai being applied at all

Going back to that Harumafuji - Sadanoumi shinitai, sorry.

Thanks for your explanations on this Asashosakari. Don't get frustrated with our ignorance, I think the issue is that we (maybe only me) don't really understand the call in many situations, and this particular case is definitely one (we're newer to sumo). Its not that we don't want to see these situations, I'm happy to have re-matches, but I'd like to properly understand.

So as another example please look at the Takayasu - Tokushoryu fight from day 7. This was a 'clearer' win for Takayasu, but if we apply some principles you explained, I could argue that Takayasu was also 'dead' in that executing the throw. Sure he had little air-time but that's simply because he is not capable of it to the extent Harumafuji is. In fact the time difference between the two rikishi touching down outside seems less than the Haruma - Sada fight.

If that had gone to mono-ii do you think shinitai could be the call?

[dingo 1,119]

Hey, Miyabiyama had 9 wins as an Ozeki on two occasions. As lackluster as MIyabiyama was, Goeido with his 8, 8, 5 and 8 wins is demonstrable more so.

Not that it comes as a surprise, but there has never been an ozeki (in the 15-bout era) who failed to get 9 wins in every tournament at the rank. Goeido could be making history over the next few basho. ;-)

Could you clarify what you mean by this? Cause I'm reading it this way that no other ozekis got 8-7 during any tournament and I'm sure there are many examples in the 15-basho era for this, starting with Kaio and Chiyotaikai, so I'm sure you mean something else...

[Jakusotsu 5,739]

Emphasis in on every.

[rhyen 1,799]

For Harumafuji's Day 10 opponent,

Would they pick 3-5 Gagamaru (M5E), 5-3 Aioyama (M5W) or reach down to 7-1 Takayasu (M8W)?