Natsu 2015 Basho Talk (spoiler alert!)

[Kasutera 258]

I loooooved seeing Aminishiki beating Gagamaru. Aminishiki is like the cool uncle you always look forward to seeing at Thanksgiving who can crack a joke and teach you how to fix a car. I don't know why I get that vibe from him but that's what I get.

Harumafuji is so damn quick. Hakuho gets more attention with his brute force, but it's amazing just how swiftly off the shikirisen Harumafuji can get to his opponent. He must do sooo much suriashi to be able to stay that low and move that fast.

Also, this is me watching every Endo match this basho:

​

[Asashosakari 18,959]

By the way, three makuuchi rikishi starting 0-6 without facing any sanyaku opponents last happened over 7 years ago, in Haru 2008.

[Kishinoyama 582]

I will disagree. Their has been many discussions on this forum about the term shinitai but I do not believe for one moment that Harumafuji was shinitai, He was trying to complete a throw and in my opinion did, while Sadanoumi was going for at best sukuinage. I've seen many matches where two guys were trying a throw at the same time and one touches down first and loses. In my opinion this was the case here.

I realize many folks here don't like to see shinitai being applied at all and might wish that rikishi could launch themselves out of a clown cannon in order to prevail over an opponent who will touch down first, but I wish we could see the end of "I don't like the rules they're operating under" being mistaken for "the shimpan got it wrong".

Okay... 'I don't like the rules they are operating under'. Shinitai should be eliminated. As far as I'm concerned, they were both attempting throws so neither one of them was a 'dead body' until one of them landed out. The match was correctly called by the gyoji and the result should have been confirmed.

[Adil 232]

Gōeidō imitating again Harumafuji. Is this gonna become a thing?

I was about to say the same thing. Goeido must have thought "Heck, Harumafuji does it after every third match and everyone says it's great technique; I might as well show some great technique like him!" Harumafuji also tried to sidestep Sadanoumi in the first match but Sadanoumi appeared to be ready for it.

I am sooooooo glad Chiyotairyu got crushed so ignominiously. Seems like he's still using the same old "just touch the opponent and backpedal as fast as you can and hope the opponent bellyflops" approach. As long as he's using that approach, I hope he never gets back to makuuchi. And if Chiyomaru doesn't wean himself off the same bad habit, I hope he disappears too. Wouldn't it be great if we get Chiyotairyu doing his 'bat outta hell' sumo all the time? The approach with which he kicked Harumafuji's ass so bad in one match some time ago? Sorry, I just can't stop being irritated by the weak sumo from these two Kokonoe boys.

By the way, is Gagamaru's ozeki run still on?

How about that Kyokutenho? Every basho it's the same routine. He'll lose a couple of matches early on and the eternal "That's it... It's time for him to retire." records are played full blast. But lo, and behold! He keeps confounding everyone. This guy is a marvel, ain't he?

Great effort from Myogiryu. We need bull terriers like him and Yoshikaze on the banzuke.

[Adil 232]

Speaking of Harumafuji, I want to see him fight the way he did today and yesterday. With his blinding tachiai, his opponents are toast even before they have time to ask themselves what happened.

[The_Arrow87 7]

I am sooooooo glad Chiyotairyu got crushed so ignominiously. Seems like he's still using the same old "just touch the opponent and backpedal as fast as you can and hope the opponent bellyflops" approach. As long as he's using that approach, I hope he never gets back to makuuchi. And if Chiyomaru doesn't wean himself off the same bad habit, I hope he disappears too.

Same here about Chiyomaru. Always trying the same thing. Happy about every bout he loses. But Chiyotairyu can do better. He wasn't doing bad when he was in the higher maegashira ranks with a more aggressive oshi style. But alas he gets injured very often.

Sadanoumi (I like him since he was in Juryo) and Tokushoryu are doing surprisingly well up there, but it'll still be hard to get kachi koshi for both of them. Even a 7-8 wouldn't be that bad.

Edited May 15, 2015 by The_Arrow87

[Asashosakari 18,959]

Same here about Chiyomaru. Always trying the same thing. Happy about every bout he loses. But Chiyotairyu can do better. He wasn't doing bad when he was in the higher maegashira ranks with a more aggressive oshi style. But alas he gets injured very often.

Sadanoumi (I like him since he was in Juryo) and Tokushoryu are doing surprisingly well up there, but it'll still be hard to get kachi koshi for both of them. Even a 7-8 wouldn't be that bad.

Yeah, sadly Chiyomaru basically hasn't improved at all technique-wise since his upper makushita days, he just got bigger and stronger. And even though he's still just 24 he's probably close to maxed out in the latter area...

Tokushoryu will still get thrown to the wolves in week 2 as he's inside the top 16 positions after Chiyootori's withdrawal, so I wouldn't even be surprised by a 5-10 finish despite the 4-2 start. (However, he was set to face Haru/Go/Teru/Myo/Ozan even as #17, so his first-week schedule was always going to be a bit soft compared to the full 15 days.)

[Jakusotsu 5,871]

To put it another way, Kimurayama left a hole to be filled, and Chiyomaru more than gladly stepped in.

[Fukurou 534]

I am sooooooo glad Chiyotairyu got crushed so ignominiously. Seems like he's still using the same old "just touch the opponent and backpedal as fast as you can and hope the opponent bellyflops" approach.

I don't like the variant where a rikishi's starting position is as far from his opponent as he can possibly be and still be on the same dohyo.

[Asashosakari 18,959]

To put it another way, Kimurayama left a hole to be filled, and Chiyomaru more than gladly stepped in.

Excellent! I was actually fishing for a comparison earlier, but I completely blanked on Kimurayama. Definitely both members of the "technically limited elevator heavyweight" section.

[Kasutera 258]

While we're talking about technique, every time I see Ichinojo PULLING an opponent near him, I want to shout at the screen. His wrap-around-the-neck uwatenage at the edge of the dohyo worked during hist first basho at makuuchi when nobody was expecting it and didn't understand how strong he is, but now it just helps his opponent to finish him off. Just go forward!

[bettega 431]

Ichinojo seems a bit too heavy - he's slower than in previous basho. He should lose some 10-20 kg

[Morty 1,483]

Teronofuji is marching towards that ozeki spot, while Ichinojo is probably a year behind him in terms of development.

I agree completely with the posters above who talked about Chiyotairyu. He has the capacity to go all the way and it drives me nuts to see him pulling all the time. He has become so one dimensional. He has a tachiai that can match it with anyone's, he has speed, strength, size and skill and yet he has become a one trick pony. I really hope he turns it around because he is a favourite, but I'm not holding my breath.

The thing about the Endo / Jokoroyu fighting injured thing for me, is not only that it risks the entire careers of both (and so is stupid on a fundamentally basic level), but that it makes the competition completely lopsided. Both look incapable of putting any weight on one leg, making them unlikely to win against any opponent at Makuuchi level, where all rikishi are skillful enough to exploit an opponent's weakness. On what we have seen so far it wouldn't surprise me to see Endo go 0-15. So if you are lucky enough to be one of the rikishi who gets to face both Jokoryu and Endo, you essentially get a two win advantage over any rikishi that doesn't also face them. Currently Kyokoshuho has faced both of them and is 5-1 - realistically, given his usual performance (the last time he was 5-1 was in Juryo in 2013 and has only once before been ranked higher than he is now, where he did poorly), would Kyokoshuho be expected to be 5-1 if he had faced all fit opponents? Compare his record to the other M11 Kaisei, and one looks far more legitimate than the other. Other rikishi will also face them twice by the end of the basho.

Competitors in all sports worldwide compete all the time while carrying injuries (Alberto Contador is currently riding the Giro d'Italia with a dislocated shoulder..., Kurt Angle won an Olympic Gold Medal with a broken neck etc) but they only do so where they can still be competitive. These two are just giving the competition a free pass - they have nothing to gain and everything to lose. The big loser is the competition as much as the individual rikishi. I know sumo is more than just a sport, but the illusion of fairness in a competition is important in maintaining its integrity. This just hurts sumo by potentially damaging permanently two of the up and coming Japanese stars, but also by questioning the legitimacy of this particular basho.

Edited May 16, 2015 by Morty

[Asashosakari 18,959]

Currently Kyokoshuho has faced both of them and is 5-1 - realistically, given his usual performance (the last time he was 5-1 was in Juryo in 2013 and has only once before been ranked higher than he is now, where he did poorly), would Kyokoshuho be expected to be 5-1 if he had faced all fit opponents? Compare his record to the other M11 Kaisei, and one looks far more legitimate than the other. Other rikishi will also face them twice by the end of the basho.

And both Kaisei and Kyokushuho will likely pay for their hot starts by getting tougher-than-average week two schedules, where one of them might be competitive and the other probably won't. Not to mention that it's always possible to cherry-pick some rikishi who got dealt a good or bad hand in their torikumi - what about everybody who didn't get to face Shohozan two months ago?

Competitors in all sports worldwide compete all the time while carrying injuries (Alberto Contador is currently riding the Giro d'Italia with a dislocated shoulder..., Kurt Angle won an Olympic Gold Medal with a broken neck etc) but they only do so where they can still be competitive.

I would dispute that. For starters, it's not uncommon for injured/sick tennis players (especially journey(wo)men, rarely stars) to take to the court even though they're very unlikely to be competitive, simply to secure extra prize money and ranking points that they wouldn't get if they withdrew before the match. (Frequently they then withdraw during the match anyway.) That's particularly galling if it happens in the first round, because it prevents a healthy player from the qualifying competition from taking that spot in the tournament instead.

This just hurts sumo by potentially damaging permanently two of the up and coming Japanese stars, but also by questioning the legitimacy of this particular basho.

The legitimacy of the basho...? (Blinking...) Neither Endo nor Jokoryu will face anyone who's going to figure into the yusho decision, and that's pretty much the end of any meaningful legitimacy concerns, IMHO. Nobody cares if some mid-maegashira gets promoted a couple more spots or demoted a couple fewer spots because of a lucky schedule; it happens all the time. It'll likely be corrected in two months' time by the next set of tournament results.

[Lizard72 4]

Got to agree on Endo. I was there the first day and was amazed he walked out, despite what I saw on the report before. He looked horrible and I was just hoping he didn't hurt himself more. Whatever you think of him, he's popular and maybe in this day and age you need to look at how you manage some of the top guys that get seriously hurt?

Very happy with Osunaarashi start.

Didn't like the Hakuho/Ichi fight until I saw the replay from the other angle. From the back it looked like a henka maneuver.

Teruno showing his power against Tochinosin, Although he's not looking his best this tournament.

Was trying to watch the Canadian, but with him not being on the listing we didn't know when he'd be fighting. Hopefully when he gets on the official lists we can better guess and get to see him next Tokyo tournament.

Edited May 16, 2015 by Lizard72

[kuroimori 1,634]

Something special is in the higashi makuuchi chikara-mizu today.

9 straight wins for the east side starting with Ikioi.

[kuroimori 1,634]

Something special is in the higashi makuuchi chikara-mizu today.

9 straight wins for the east side starting with Ikioi.

Make that 10 straight wins thanks to Terunofuji forcing out Kotoshogiku.

[Masumasumasu 902]

More bullying sumo from Hakuho against Sadanoumi today.

[krindel 671]

Goeido is still on track in his effort to gain the title of the most lackluster Ozeki in recent memory.

[Lizard72 4]

Goeido is still on track in his effort to gain the title of the most lackluster Ozeki in recent memory.

Yes, unfortunately. When he's on he's really fun to watch though.

More bullying sumo from Hakuho against Sadanoumi today.

Is that a bad thing?

[Tsubame 359]

Goeido is still on track in his effort to gain the title of the most lackluster Ozeki in recent memory.

*cough* Miyabiyama *cough*

[Monnodo 60]

More bullying sumo from Hakuho against Sadanoumi today.

I really like Hakuho, but this is in no way Yokozuna sumo. I rather see 20 Harumafuji Henka than an elbow by him. Why though? Sadanoumi is on fire thios tournament, but does Hakuho see no other way beating him then trying to knock him out? This was really sad. It doesn't show the dominance of Hakuho, it just seems violent.

[orandashoho 720]

All techniques are open to all. There may be some that are frowned upon, but it is left to indignance to do its work. Part of the Yokozuna's job is to be a challenge, a mountain against which others can test their mettle. A Yokozuna who frequently resorts to "unworthy techniques" (though there is no such thing, a winning technique is a winning technique) will inflame his opponents with all the more fire to beat him, and they can be assured of a cheering public.

[Monnodo 60]

All techniques are open to all. There may be some that are frowned upon, but it is left to indignance to do its work. Part of the Yokozuna's job is to be a challenge, a mountain against which others can test their mettle. A Yokozuna who frequently resorts to "unworthy techniques" (though there is no such thing, a winning technique is a winning technique) will inflame his opponents with all the more fire to beat him, and they can be assured of a cheering public.

This sounds like a storyline out of wrestling rather than sumo. Hakuho is no "wrestler" he is a rikishi. A Yokozuna at that. He has to behave accordingly and playing the heel so that the crowd can cheer for the younger guys is not part of that.

[ALAKTORN 346]

Yeah, I didn’t like Hakuhō’s elbow today either.