Natsu 2015 Basho Talk (spoiler alert!)

[Shikona 139]

Harumafuji vs Sadonoumi - Apparently video replay is not being used or if it is being used, someone needs to have their vision checked.

Leaping into the air above the dohyo might have done it. Apparently leaping into the seats in order to avoid touching down is not the same thing.

[Chinonofuji 35]

Wow, you have to love Aminishiki. I'm no expert, but when he was younger, it always seemed he was too light to be truly elite. As he got older, he gained the weight and got even wilier, but his body betrayed him. Now, he might be one of sumo's first cyborgs, with all the equipment around those knees! If only things had been a little different, who knows what else he could have achieved. As it stands, he gave Hakuho a real challenge. (And used to give them to Asashoryu regularly, remember?) Perhaps one day in the future, he'll find a younger, slightly bigger version of himself and pour his knowledge into him. (Like the sumo version of The Hustler and The Color of Money...) I'd pay to see that.

Edited May 14, 2015 by Chinonofuji

[Jakusotsu 5,721]

Perhaps one day in the future, he'll find a younger, slightly bigger version of himself and pour his knowledge into him.

Didn't that happen already?

(Hint: Yokozuna Harumafuji)

[Chinonofuji 35]

What, you mean Aminishiki helped Harumafuji with his technique and approach? I had no idea! Or you mean Harumafuji is like Aminishiki 2.0 -- a little bigger, a little faster, a little better... and a Yokozuna?

[orandashoho 720]

The day Aminishiki chooses to retire -- hopefully a long time for now -- is a loss of entertainment value for those who watch sumo, I expected him to lose his match against Hakuho, but you never know how he might slip through the mazes of the net when everyone thinks it has been drawn tight. This time it almost woked. Gasp! Hearts start to race. So fast, but not fast enough for Hakuho. Battle of wits! Aaahh! So sorry... but really, against any other it would have worked. Even in the matches he is losing he is showing his right to a place at the top.

[CT3* 331]

I'm impressed with anyone that can compete with a futon strapped to each leg!

[inhashi 2,363]

Aminishiki looked terrible walking back to shitaku beya after his defeat with Hakuho and I'm getting worried :( Anyone have new news on him?

Edited May 14, 2015 by inhashi

[Gernobono 447]

Aminishiki looked terrible walking back to shitaku beya.......

i cannot remember i saw that many fighting kyujos in makuuchi....naming jokoryu, aminishiki, endo, chiyomaru, homarefuji....

and there still are arawashi and fujiazuma....maybe they are just "normally" weak this basho

[kuroimori 1,634]

The day Aminishiki chooses to retire -- hopefully a long time for now -- is a loss of entertainment value for those who watch sumo, I expected him to lose his match against Hakuho, but you never know how he might slip through the mazes of the net when everyone thinks it has been drawn tight. This time it almost woked. Gasp! Hearts start to race. So fast, but not fast enough for Hakuho. Battle of wits! Aaahh! So sorry... but really, against any other it would have worked. Even in the matches he is losing he is showing his right to a place at the top.

I watched the NHK broadcast and after that incredible effort Aminishiki put up against Hakuho, he was interviewed right after the match, saying that heven wanted to get this win for his longtime tsukubito Ogifuji, who just retired after 22 years.

After hearing this quote and witnessing his fearless approach against the by far best guy on only a half health leg and seeing his facial expression after letting slip Hakuho out of the dangerous backward position, I thought that Aminishiki maybe realized that this might have been his last run at snatching away a kinboshi.

[Kasutera 258]

You can't not love Aminishiki. After that match he has become, bar none, my favorite.

Edited May 14, 2015 by Kasutera

[Kotogouryuu 126]

Terunofuji's power is impressive. He'd better avoid injury, we need guys like him.

[Andreas21 182]

I just realized that Yoshiazuma, one of the tallest Japanese Rikishi ever, and a decent Juryo regular, is probably in his final fall. 8 Make-koshi out of the last 9 Basho and starting this Basho with 0-2. Has anybody any specific information about what is bothering him?

[Kishinoyama 582]

Harumafuji vs Sadonoumi - Apparently video replay is not being used or if it is being used, someone needs to have their vision checked.

Leaping into the air above the dohyo might have done it. Apparently leaping into the seats in order to avoid touching down is not the same thing.

I will disagree. Their has been many discussions on this forum about the term shinitai but I do not believe for one moment that Harumafuji was shinitai, He was trying to complete a throw and in my opinion did, while Sadanoumi was going for at best sukuinage. I've seen many matches where two guys were trying a throw at the same time and one touches down first and loses. In my opinion this was the case here.

[Asashosakari 18,649]

I will disagree. Their has been many discussions on this forum about the term shinitai but I do not believe for one moment that Harumafuji was shinitai, He was trying to complete a throw and in my opinion did, while Sadanoumi was going for at best sukuinage. I've seen many matches where two guys were trying a throw at the same time and one touches down first and loses. In my opinion this was the case here.

Both were lifted completely off the ground, that's pretty much a textbook case of shinitai (individually for each), no matter if either was in the process of executing a technique at the time he lost contact to the ground. You're not going to beat your opponent by getting hang time on your way out (that's pretty much what shinitai is supposed to address), and when both competitors are going airborne and horizontal, declaring that neither deserves to win this way is the logical conclusion. And that's exactly how they've handled those specific cases for at least the last several years, and probably for much longer than that.

And Sadanoumi wasn't going for a throw, he was mainly attempting to complete his pushout (watch his left hand), but the trajectory he was sent on by Harumafuji's throw caused him to push Harumafuji upwards instead of further back. Somebody quipped that Harumafuji was "jumping", as though the whole deal was completely his own doing - not correct at all. Let's be honest, if the roles had been reversed, how many here would be mounting a spirited defense of Sadanoumi or even declare that he was robbed? How many would have given it a second thought at all? (I could also say something about the curious lack of interest in the non-mono-ii after Tochinoshin's win over Kisenosato...would that have gone over so quietly with reversed roles and a Kise win, too?)

Anyway, that contact to the ground matters was demonstrated quite well in the rematch - Sadanoumi looked far from elegant in his ballerina act falling across the tawara, but he did keep one foot down while Harumafuji was fully invested in Mongolian Airlines again. Consequently, no mono-ii, even though purely on "who lands first?" grounds it was probably closer than the first one.

I realize many folks here don't like to see shinitai being applied at all and might wish that rikishi could launch themselves out of a clown cannon in order to prevail over an opponent who will touch down first, but I wish we could see the end of "I don't like the rules they're operating under" being mistaken for "the shimpan got it wrong".

[sekitori 492]

Hakuho's escaping okuritaoshi from Aminishiki reminds me of another match quite a while ago. That time it was Asashoryu avoiding the same kimarite against I believe, Wakanosato. And like Hakuho, he also won the match.

When a great rikishi is competing, not even getting behind him and pushing him out of the ring for a virtually certain win is something that can be taken for granted. Maybe it's called ring sense or something similar but they can manage to overcome severe adversity that will lead others to sure defeat. Rikishis like Hakuho and Asashoryu just somehow find a way to win and that's one of the reasons why they're described as "great".

Edited May 15, 2015 by sekitori

[kuroimori 1,634]

And we have another strange decision - just Juryo, but still:

I thought that Tamaasuka earned at least a mono-ii if not the win against Satoyama today.

The commentators went awkwardly silent when the replay showed that it was a very close call with Satoyama appearing to touch down first.

[Treblemaker 254]

Even on one leg, Aminishiki has always been a dangerous opponent. When even half-baked, his unpredictable approach won him matches when opponents weren't paying attention. I'll be sorry when he finally has to call it quits.

And it's a shame that the sport is so brutal on knees in general. How many really good people have had to wing it after damaging their knees early in their careers? Baruto (to name one) might still be up there. Certainly it cost Kotooshu in the long run. But then, knees are always tricky things (see Bobby Orr).

Late edit: Maybe they should start making the dohyo as forgiving as the mat in yer old rassling ring (like in the WWE).

Edited May 15, 2015 by Treblemaker

[ALAKTORN 346]

Gōeidō imitating again Harumafuji. Is this gonna become a thing?

Edited May 15, 2015 by ALAKTORN

[Mongolith 51]

Surprised that Endo keeps going as he is just getting destroyed on a daily basis. Seems about the only way he is getting a win is if his opponent withdraws.

[orandashoho 720]

It's painful to watch Endo. He cannot drive with that leg at all, he has a weak side for every opponent to see and exploit, and he is running a risk of further injury. Whatever he and his oyakata been thinking to prove, when is enough enough?

[Tsubame 354]

Any clues what happend to Jokoryu? He is on a direct way back to juryo. After his spaectacular rise, I expected at least that he could easily stay as meagashira...

[krindel 671]

It's painful to watch Endo. He cannot drive with that leg at all, he has a weak side for every opponent to see and exploit, and he is running a risk of further injury. Whatever he and his oyakata been thinking to prove, when is enough enough?

I suspect at this point that they might be waiting for week 2 and an opponent or two who can spare a win in service to the Great Japanese Hope. Otherwise I seriously can't see how Endo can defeat any Makuuchi rikishi in the state he appears to be in.

[Asojima 2,870]

Any clues what happend to Jokoryu? He is on a direct way back to juryo. After his spaectacular rise, I expected at least that he could easily stay as meagashira...

Jokoryu is another one fighting with one knee who should not be there this basho.

[dingo 1,100]

I just feel sorry for Endo for getting this unfortunate injury and having to climb the dohyo every day knowing that his chance to win is very slim. Must be quite a fall after all this hype which he never even asked for.

[Fukurou 534]

Surprised that Endo keeps going as he is just getting destroyed on a daily basis. Seems about the only way he is getting a win is if his opponent withdraws.

Day 7 might be a chance. He's facing a lower ranked opponent in Arawashi, who is 0-6. OTOH, Arawashi will be going after his first win...