Natsu 2015 Basho Talk (spoiler alert!)

[I am the Yokozuna 188]

A great tournament, hopefully more of the same level of competitiveness and with the similar number of rikishi involved in the yusho race to the last day to come in the future. A pure domination is great for purists, but not so much for me.

Interestingly, with Hakuho approaching the yusho record and surpassing it, many of my Japanese colleagues rekindled their interest in the kokugi and suddenly became versed in names, techniques and so on trying to impress others at lunches, small talks and so on. Even my supervisor visited a basho for the first time in 25 years, on the senshuraku in January. Just imagine what a Japanese rikishi's win or a yokozuna promotion would do for the office environments here?

I really hope that Oosuna would see the Terunofuji's promotion as a motivation for him to get in sanyaku as well. He has the ability, for me, to be there on regular basis and his presence would definitely make the later part of the bouts more unpredictable.

[WAKATAKE 2,644]

Heart-stopping basho, one of the most exciting ones I've seen.

I must agree though, nothing against Terunofuji, but he was very fortunate to come away with the cup. Some questionable referring decisions went against Hakuho, though he also lost way more than usual, plus Terunofuji never had to fight Haru, never beat Hakuho himself, and Kakuryu of course was out injured. Exciting but weird basho, in which there really wasn't a clear winner - but Terunofuji walks away with it. He deserves to be ozeki though.

I have to disagree with the "questionable referring decisions" regarding Hakuho`s losses to the ozeki. The fact of the matter is that if you look closely at the way Goeido and Kisenosato executed their throws, Hakuho clearly touches the dohyo first. Hakuho has nobody to blame for these losses except himself.

[shimodahito 304]

- if teronufuji wins Nagoya, what is his chance of becoming yokozuna?

- good to see takarafuji in the sanyaku ranks!!!!

[Kishinoyama 582]

- if teronufuji wins Nagoya, what is his chance of becoming yokozuna?

Even with a 15-0 record, I can't see the kyokai promoted him.

[Masumasumasu 902]

The car ride:

Arrival at the heya:

Thanks to Myjetsetlife

[Masumasumasu 902]

Post-yusho interview:

http://youtu.be/k1pAwgqxHHY

[dazunoyama 2]

Has anyone heard if Hakuho was perhaps nursing an unreported injury?

[Asameshimae 220]

Seriously though, how would the playoff run if they ended up with eight guys on 11 wins?

Straight three-round single KO bracket.

Yeah, the even numbered tied rikishi situation is easy. It's when an odd number of rikishi have identical leading records at the end of a basho that they have to be more creative.

[Kintamayama 44,646]

Has anyone heard if Hakuho was perhaps nursing an unreported injury?

Everyone is nursing an unreported injury most of the time. Hakuhou is getting on and at some point he will be shot down at OK Corral. This may be the point, or not.

We shall see.

[Chiyozakura 130]

Yokozuna Deliberation Council is in charge for the promotion. Note - council. They can promote whoever they wish.

Is that really so? So far I have had the impression that the NSK has to propose a rikishi for promotion. When Kaio had a Yusho followed by a 12-3 jun-yusho the rijicho said they are not going to put him up for discussion and I do not remember reading anything about it later on.

I don't know why this distinction is mentioned at all. My point was that they (whoever they are) can promote whoever they wish. And this is valid.

The distinction between NSK and YDC is superficial. The YDC belongs to the NSK. It is not an independent body. NSK is in charge for the whole professional Sumo and for issues with respect to Yokozuna, it entitles the YDC.

Sure, the Riji propose a Rikishi for promotion, and the YDC has a say, usually nods and gives some remarks. Possibly, the Rijicho decides everything. So what?

I mentioned it because it makes a difference. Neither the NSK nor the YDC can decide by themselves to crown a new Yokozuna. It takes both. So there is a system of checks and balances in place which proves your point wrong.

If I remember correctly the idea of a YDC was brought up in 1950 after Maedayama was forced to retire after a terrible Yokozuna career and a scandal of missing a honbasho due to injury and at the same time appearing at a baseball match. The next basho saw all three active Yokozuna Haguroyama, Azumafuji and Terukuni drop out midway which was seen as a disgrace for the NSK and their decisions on Yokozuna.

The DLC can definitely turn down a Yokozuna promotion. In Futahaguros case they came very close to doing so. The decision was only one vote in his favor with one member who stated to vote against him missing the meeting. Another close case was Hokutoumi. If the NSK would now propose Goeido for Yokozuna I am pretty sure it would be turned down.

[Andreas21 183]

I mentioned it because it makes a difference. Neither the NSK nor the YDC can decide by themselves to crown a new Yokozuna. It takes both. So there is a system of checks and balances in place which proves your point wrong.

If I remember correctly the idea of a YDC was brought up in 1950 after Maedayama was forced to retire after a terrible Yokozuna career and a scandal of missing a honbasho due to injury and at the same time appearing at a baseball match. The next basho saw all three active Yokozuna Haguroyama, Azumafuji and Terukuni drop out midway which was seen as a disgrace for the NSK and their decisions on Yokozuna.

The DLC can definitely turn down a Yokozuna promotion. In Futahaguros case they came very close to doing so. The decision was only one vote in his favor with one member who stated to vote against him missing the meeting. Another close case was Hokutoumi. If the NSK would now propose Goeido for Yokozuna I am pretty sure it would be turned down.

Thank you for this information.

My point was, however, that there are no fixed rules to promote someone to Yokozuna, it is a process of discussion and voting, as you stated. Such a process can have sometimes a surprising outcome, depending on the people involved. It is theoretically possible, that it is decided to promote Terunofuji to Yokozuna if he wins in Nagoya, even if that contradicts principles previously applied. I was replying to comments which seemed to imply that there is no margin of interpretation, and the NSK+YDC can be sued by the Rikishi for not following the rules.

Btw, what is DLC?

[Washuyama 638]

It seems like Terunofuji is extremely uncomfortable being the center of attention. He should probably get used to it, that will not be his last yusho parade.

[Shikona 139]

It seems like Terunofuji is extremely uncomfortable being the center of attention. He should probably get used to it, that will not be his last yusho parade.

This is a test. As we know, how you handle your role can have a big effect on performance after a promotion. I wouldn't be surprised if Terunofuji, like many others, has a letdown in his next basho. How he proceeds from there will show if he has the mental fortitude to match his physical talents.

[bettega 431]

Is Teru's promotion garanteed? Or we just talking the talk?

[kuroimori 1,634]

Is Teru's promotion garanteed? Or we just talking the talk?

Well, who knows... according to some voices here at the forum, there might still be a chance that they want to deal with Gagamaru's ozeki promotion first.... ;-)

[Chiyozakura 130]

I mentioned it because it makes a difference. Neither the NSK nor the YDC can decide by themselves to crown a new Yokozuna. It takes both. So there is a system of checks and balances in place which proves your point wrong.

If I remember correctly the idea of a YDC was brought up in 1950 after Maedayama was forced to retire after a terrible Yokozuna career and a scandal of missing a honbasho due to injury and at the same time appearing at a baseball match. The next basho saw all three active Yokozuna Haguroyama, Azumafuji and Terukuni drop out midway which was seen as a disgrace for the NSK and their decisions on Yokozuna.

The DLC can definitely turn down a Yokozuna promotion. In Futahaguros case they came very close to doing so. The decision was only one vote in his favor with one member who stated to vote against him missing the meeting. Another close case was Hokutoumi. If the NSK would now propose Goeido for Yokozuna I am pretty sure it would be turned down.

Thank you for this information.

My point was, however, that there are no fixed rules to promote someone to Yokozuna, it is a process of discussion and voting, as you stated. Such a process can have sometimes a surprising outcome, depending on the people involved. It is theoretically possible, that it is decided to promote Terunofuji to Yokozuna if he wins in Nagoya, even if that contradicts principles previously applied. I was replying to comments which seemed to imply that there is no margin of interpretation, and the NSK+YDC can be sued by the Rikishi for not following the rules.

Btw, what is DLC?

DLC was supposed to mean YDC.

I agree with what you wrote in that post. Things that have been done since people can remember could change from one day to the next without explanation. A lot of things are being handled differently on a case by case basis. That is why the Sanyaku on the next banzuke will be impossible to predict. Myogiryu and Tochinoshin could both be a Komusubi or one of them M#1. I personally would put both at Komusubi since they deserve the rank but I would put no money on it.

[Shitamachi 21]

It seems like Terunofuji is extremely uncomfortable being the center of attention. He should probably get used to it, that will not be his last yusho parade.

I wonder if part of this has to do with his Japanese level. His command of the language doesn't seem to be as good as some of the other Mongolian rikishi and it seemed like he didn't understand some of the questions he was asked in the yusho interview, giving "ganbarimasu" answers as a pretty safe response. Granted he hasn't been here as long, so he has time to learn.

[Asameshimae 220]

My impression was he understood the questions but didn't have as much Japanese as he'd like to answer some of the questions. Some of the questions he was asked you'd have to be pretty coy to avoid looking too full of yourself so he avoided answers that he didn't have enough Japanese to deflect deftly. He's only been here 4 years I think? Not bad really.

Edited May 25, 2015 by Asameshimae

[Washuyama 638]

It seems like Terunofuji is extremely uncomfortable being the center of attention. He should probably get used to it, that will not be his last yusho parade.

I wonder if part of this has to do with his Japanese level. His command of the language doesn't seem to be as good as some of the other Mongolian rikishi and it seemed like he didn't understand some of the questions he was asked in the yusho interview, giving "ganbarimasu" answers as a pretty safe response. Granted he hasn't been here as long, so he has time to learn.

My impression was based on the parade footage... HMF trying to get him to enjoy himself, smile, wave to the crowd; kind of a "you earned this, grasshopper, enjoy it!"

[Mongolith 51]

Is Teru's promotion garanteed? Or we just talking the talk?

When the chairman says he will endorse Fuji's promotion its pretty much a done deal. Also several oyakata have stated that a yusho will bring him into consideration for ozeki, backtracking on their 14-1 criteria they stated earlier. I personally feel his promotion is deserved when comparing him to the current ozeki crop (No yushos & two 32 win promotions).

[rzombie1988 157]

Is Teru's promotion garanteed? Or we just talking the talk?

When the chairman says he will endorse Fuji's promotion its pretty much a done deal. Also several oyakata have stated that a yusho will bring him into consideration for ozeki, backtracking on their 14-1 criteria they stated earlier. I personally feel his promotion is deserved when comparing him to the current ozeki crop (No yushos & two 32 win promotions).

Terunofuji definitely deserves it when you compare him to the other Ozeki and probably should be Yokozuna, since the title win plus 2nd place finish is good enough for Yok.

Edited May 25, 2015 by rzombie1988

[Asameshimae 220]

Is Teru's promotion garanteed? Or we just talking the talk?

When the chairman says he will endorse Fuji's promotion its pretty much a done deal. Also several oyakata have stated that a yusho will bring him into consideration for ozeki, backtracking on their 14-1 criteria they stated earlier. I personally feel his promotion is deserved when comparing him to the current ozeki crop (No yushos & two 32 win promotions).

Terunofuji definitely deserves it when you compare him to the other Ozeki and probably should be Yokozuna, since the title win plus 2nd place finish is good enough for Yok.

What and just skip Ozeki? I'd probably quit watching sumo in disgust if that happened. ;-)

[Akinomaki 40,053]

When two yokozuna-quality performances at the ozeki rank are enough to earn promotion to yokozuna, why shouldn't two ozeki-quality performances at the sekiwake rank be enough to earn promotion to ozeki?

Is Teru's promotion garanteed? Or we just talking the talk?

When the chairman says he will endorse Fuji's promotion its pretty much a done deal. Also several oyakata have stated that a yusho will bring him into consideration for ozeki, backtracking on their 14-1 criteria they stated earlier. I personally feel his promotion is deserved when comparing him to the current ozeki crop (No yushos & two 32 win promotions).

Terunofuji definitely deserves it when you compare him to the other Ozeki and probably should be Yokozuna, since the title win plus 2nd place finish is good enough for Yok.

Kisenosato would have been promoted to yokozuna with that record, no doubt. Will he be (again) on a (silent) yokozuna run next basho with this (meager) 11-4 runner-up result? (a 14-1 yusho would likely still be enough for the NSK now)

Terunofuji was practically on all channels yesterday, several live appearances. No-one doubts his ozeki promotion in the media, and he answers as a guaranteed ozeki now, after still saying on day 15 that he waits to change his goal of becoming an ozeki this year (to yokozuna next), because he isn't one yet. It is a promise and although the official "decision" is on Wednesday, there is no way for the NSK to postpone the promotion.

Edited May 26, 2015 by Akinomaki

[Akinomaki 40,053]

I haven't noticed something like this in the hall announcement for a regular bout before: for the Kagamio-Hidenoumi bout the additional information of "the winner of this bout gets the juryo yusho". Did they do this before and for other divisions as well?

Interesting that the past Natsu basho (1991) presented on NHK, as a short special spread over several days of the basho, was a basho won by Terunofuji's shisho Isegehama-oyakata, ex-Asahifuji.

[Kintamayama 44,646]

I haven't noticed something like this in the hall announcement for a regular bout before: for the Kagamio-Hidenoumi bout the additional information of "the winner of this bout gets the juryo yusho". Did they do this before and for other divisions as well?

Interesting that the past Natsu basho (1991) presented on NHK, as a short special spread over several days of the basho, was a basho won by Terunofuji's shisho Isegehama-oyakata, ex-Asahifuji.

Yes, I've heard that in the past, in Makushita bouts as well.