Masumasumasu 902 Posted May 24, 2015 http://youtu.be/Pv94iGb9UxY 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Fay 1,677 Posted May 24, 2015 You can call me the Ozeki maker ;-) Kotoshogiku, Kakuryu, Terunofuji Can you consider doing this as a full time job? I guess the koenkai from Endo would be highly interested in a joint venture with you (and I think they will also paying very well). I already have another plan, but if they pay me I could think about it ;-) Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ALAKTORN 346 Posted May 24, 2015 Oh god, I am feeling a HakuhÅ loss and Terunofuji win tomorrow I hope not.WHY WAS I RIGHT FFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFF 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rhyen 1,801 Posted May 24, 2015 You can call me the Ozeki maker ;-) Kotoshogiku, Kakuryu, Terunofuji Can you consider doing this as a full time job? I guess the koenkai from Endo would be highly interested in a joint venture with you (and I think they will also paying very well). I already have another plan, but if they pay me I could think about it ;-) Who is the next Rikishi in your Crystal ball? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Tsubame 355 Posted May 24, 2015 There is a pattern: O, Y, O, ... So after the promotion of Terunofuji to ozeki, her next project have to be a yokozuna promotion. I bet Kise is her next Rikishi! I knew he would finaly made it to yokozuna! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Treblemaker 254 Posted May 24, 2015 At the start of this, I had written off Aminishiki and Tenho, but both keep plugging along. This is why I don't go to casinos. Don't know if anyone was keeping track, but this basho had not so many throws and few henkas (but some real juicy ones!). I kinda miss the days when people were tossing each other around. And don't write Hakuho off just yet. Yes, this might not have been his best effort, but parity being what it is, there's still no substituting strength and enthusiasm with sheer experience. Hak's downfall was running into vintage HF. If there's an acid test, it's how Hak deals in the next few basho. Then, if there's a trend, then we can start the retirement parade. I don't think he's done yet. And to the age-old question about the next Yokozuna, I think we finally see Kise over the next few months. But then, I don't go to casinos. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Fay 1,677 Posted May 24, 2015 There is a pattern: O, Y, O, ... So after the promotion of Terunofuji to ozeki, her next project have to be a yokozuna promotion. I bet Kise is her next Rikishi! I knew he would finaly made it to yokozuna! Definitely not, I can't take someone who is already Ozeki :-D - and besides I can't stand Kise :-D I know and supported Gana from the very beginning and I'm proud that he made it through all difficulties. Looking forward to his next bashos 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Masumasumasu 902 Posted May 24, 2015 I can't stand Kise :-D What did he do to you, sir? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bettega 423 Posted May 24, 2015 Some time in the future these days will be known as "transition from Hakuho". I think we'll see a bunch of Intai from the top guys yet in 2015. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rzombie1988 157 Posted May 24, 2015 I love how everyone says Hakuho is washed up when he just won 6 of the last 7 basho's. Wish I could be that washed up. 5 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Gernobono 453 Posted May 24, 2015 (edited) this posting is my opinion and there of course is no real evidence to prove it....but.... the mongolians have taken over ozumo....no question about that..... i know that many here do not believe in what is obvious in my eyes......there is hakuho.....he dominates ozumo......he does for a long time now......in my view even asashoryu in his late was only awarded yusho by hakuho....asashoryu never won 2 in a row......even when asashoryu and hakuho shared the yusho over some time hakuho set new records for most bouts won in a year...... every time a mongolian with prospects arrives the group deciede to advance him.....don't get me wrong......the guys have to make it into joi-jin territory for themselves....but than it is plain sailing......examples: harumafuji......he was no big deal but suddenly gets big 3 big scores and is ozeki......than back to mediocrity....when first murmurs get louder he takes the yusho....back to mediocrity.....yushoing again after a close 8-7....and a yusho after kyujo....just always at the "right" time...... than there is kakuryu ....again a sekiwake as he should be.....than the "explosion" with his best score just when he needs it......after that back to mediocrity......and when murmurs start again that an ozeki should get double-digit scores at least, he takes 2 consecutive 14-1 with jun-yusho and yusho.....back to mediocrity with a junyusho to keep the murmurs down...... now there is this big prospect terunofuji......he is a very good rikishi, but he also is ozeki form mongolians' grace.......this time hakuho shows who is the boss by beating him, but loses 3 out of 4 to make the ozeki-promotion of terunofuji perfect with a yusho for him...... i know that not many share this opinion, but noone in this forum believed my, when i predicted what was later called "ozeki backscratchers club"......those are just observations over the years.....and my prediction is that terunofuji is the hakuho of 2017+ and ichinojo will be his harumafuji......with some kakuryu (fay already knows who it will be) around..... Edited May 24, 2015 by Gernobono Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Kishinoyama 582 Posted May 24, 2015 this posting is my opinion and there of course is no real evidence to prove it....but.... the mongolians have taken over ozumo....no question about that..... i know that many here do not believe in what is obvious in my eyes......there is hakuho.....he dominates ozumo......he does for a long time now......in my view even asashoryu in his late was only awarded yusho by hakuho....asashoryu never won 2 in a row......even when asashoryu and hakuho shared the yusho over some time hakuho set new records for most bouts won in a year...... every time a mongolian with prospects arrives the group deciede to advance him.....don't get me wrong......the guys have to make it into joi-jin territory for themselves....but than it is plain sailing......examples: harumafuji......he was no big deal but suddenly gets big 3 big scores and is ozeki......than back to mediocrity....when first murmurs get louder he takes the yusho....back to mediocrity.....yushoing again after a close 8-7....and a yusho after kyujo....just always at the "right" time...... than there is kakuryu ....again a sekiwake as he should be.....than the "explosion" with his best score just when he needs it......after that back to mediocrity......and when murmurs start again that an ozeki should get double-digit scores at least, he takes 2 consecutive 14-1 with jun-yusho and yusho.....back to mediocrity with a junyusho to keep the murmurs down...... now there is this big prospect terunofuji......he is a very good rikishi, but he also is ozeki form mongolians' grace.......this time hakuho shows who is the boss by beating him, but loses 3 out of 4 to make the ozeki-promotion of terunofuji perfect with a yusho for him...... i know that not many share this opinion, but noone in this forum believed my, when i predicted what was later called "ozeki backscratchers club"......those are just observations over the years.....and my prediction is that terunofuji is the hakuho of 2017+ and ichinojo will be his harumafuji......with some kakuryu (fay already knows who it will be) around..... So... instead of the OBSC it is now the MBSC? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bettega 423 Posted May 24, 2015 (edited) I love how everyone says Hakuho is washed up when he just won 6 of the last 7 basho's. Wish I could be that washed up. He's not finished by far. But he's having some problems and losing some bouts. Maybe the Hak's hegemony is close to an end, not Hak himself - I think he'll get something around 40 yusho before Intai. And he'll stop not for losing, but for lack of motivation. Edited May 24, 2015 by bettega 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Kintamayama 44,275 Posted May 24, 2015 (edited) <Gernobono, on 24 May 2015 - 18:51, said: this posting is my opinion and there of course is no real evidence to prove it....but.... the mongolians have taken over ozumo....no question about that.....> That's nice, but none of the Mongolians ever faced only 14 other Mongolians during a basho, So therein lies the problem with your theory. Unless you think the Japanese rikishi are in on it as well.. Take Kakuryuu's first 14-1 run for example: He faced 12 Japanese and only one (1) Mongolian. A bit difficult for the Mongolians to decide anything, no? Second run? 11 Japanese and 3 Mongolians. And so on. Lately, Ichinojou and Terunofuji joined the joi ranks. If any funny stuff is going on, we will probably see that in the future. But till now? I don't think so. Of the 18 joi, 5 are Mongolians. Two can't face each other. The others won't lose to each other just to further each other's promotional needs. They may, like the OBSC, lose to each other to prevent demotion. But for promotion? The numbers don't work. Certainly not for Kakuryuu or Harumafuji's past promotions or even Terunofuji's current Ozeki promotion (9 Japanese, 3 Mongolians including Tamawashi..). Edited May 24, 2015 by Kintamayama 10 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ALAKTORN 346 Posted May 24, 2015 I didnât even notice KyokutenhÅ finished 8-7. I thought he was makekoshi. Good for him. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
luispereira 383 Posted May 24, 2015 very happy for terunofuji! and very happy to follow the bashos with you guys from the forum! more happy sumo days to come! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rzombie1988 157 Posted May 24, 2015 (edited) I love how everyone says Hakuho is washed up when he just won 6 of the last 7 basho's. Wish I could be that washed up. He's not finished by far. But he's having some problems and losing some bouts. Maybe the Hak's hegemony is close to an end, not Hak himself - I think he'll get something around 40 yusho before Intai. And he'll stop not for losing, but for lack of motivation. In 4 of his last 5 tournaments he went either 14-1 or 15-0...Definitely a problem winning matches! He should retire immediately. Edited May 24, 2015 by rzombie1988 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Highway 46 Posted May 24, 2015 Heart-stopping basho, one of the most exciting ones I've seen.I must agree though, nothing against Terunofuji, but he was very fortunate to come away with the cup. Some questionable referring decisions went against Hakuho, though he also lost way more than usual, plus Terunofuji never had to fight Haru, never beat Hakuho himself, and Kakuryu of course was out injured. Exciting but weird basho, in which there really wasn't a clear winner - but Terunofuji walks away with it. He deserves to be ozeki though. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Asashosakari 18,670 Posted May 24, 2015 (edited) The query doesn't exactly support the point, since the most recent example of 24-2 without 33-3, Hoshi in 1986, was not promoted. Also Yutakayama did begin his O-run from M2, but also had a previous appearance at Komosubi, so a total of 3 sanyaku appearances before promotion. But I'm with you on Terunofuji promotion. I think kachikoshi in the first appearance in joi is impressive, and over the last two basho he shares the top record with Hakuho. Well deserved. Yeah, my bad on Yutakayama, I messed up the query and misread his sekiwake rank debut as a sanyaku rank debut. Yoshibayama is an actual case with just two sanyaku tournaments, but of course that was with only 3 basho per year. Hoshi arguably got victimized by there being 5 ozeki already, but the "24" wasn't really my focus anyway, but rather the "2". The point I was trying to make is that there have been quite many successful ozeki runs that were backloaded so much that the first of the three basho was basically irrelevant beyond the fact that it needed to be a KK that got the rikishi to sekiwake (or kept him there). The actual ozeki run can pretty much consist just of two really strong performances at the sekiwake rank then.* Terunofuji's promotion, should it happen now, isn't out of the norm, especially as he put the cherry on top with the yusho. People see "33 in 3" and seem to assume that it means three equally important basho, but that's simply not always the case. It can be true (they're not going to deny somebody who goes 11-11-11), but it's long-standing practice to assign less weight to the first basho than the other two. * When two yokozuna-quality performances at the ozeki rank are enough to earn promotion to yokozuna, why shouldn't two ozeki-quality performances at the sekiwake rank be enough to earn promotion to ozeki? Edited May 24, 2015 by Asashosakari Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
krindel 671 Posted May 24, 2015 People see "33 in 3" and seem to assume that it means three equally important basho, but that's simply not always the case. It can be true (they're not going to deny somebody who goes 11-11-11), but it's long-standing practice to assign less weight to the first basho than the other two. I am very happy to see any new guy taking the Yusho, renewal can only be good for sumo. My concern though has nothing to do with 24 in 2 or 33 in 3 or whatever. My concern has to do with the fact that Terunofuji has a total of two double digit basho in his very short Makuuchi career. Kudos to him for all he has accomplished, and I'll be happy to see him at Ozeki, but I still think there's a danger of the promotion proving premature. Still, like I said before, in a field of yusho-less Ozeki, a Yusho is extremely hard to ignore, so they felt they had no choice. Anyway, barring major surprises, the deed is done, heartfelt congrats to the youngster, and I certainly hope Terunofuji proves to be a strong Ozeki and all my speculative concern proves completely unfounded. 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dingo 1,133 Posted May 24, 2015 I have to admit my first thought was "How the hell did Kisenosato mess this up?". There's a 12-3 yusho up for grabs and once again he manages to make a mess of it, just like with Kyokutenho's yusho. The irony is that he actually unwittingly contributed to Terunofuji's yusho, first by losing to Terunofuji and then by beating Hakuho. Like Morty said, I'm really starting to believe it's just not meant for Kisenosato to win a yusho. Anyway, some other random comments about senshuraku and the basho in general --- Brilliant move by Harumafuji at the edge of the dohyo. Hakuho had really no way to get out of that position with a win -- you could really hear the cogs running in his head when they both stopped for a bit, but there was no way out of it. He'd really be superhuman if he had won this. Speaking of Hakuho, I wonder if after the "a kid could've seen it" debacle the shinpan are less inclined to give Hakuho a monoii? There were two times this basho where the decision was so close that a monoii would've been understandable. Yet none were given. I don't really believe it myself, but a case still could be made for this... Gagamaru actually moved fast today! I keep telling you guys there's an ozeki in the making here and after achieving this rank that ozeki's shikona will be Lord Gaga! Endo somehow seemed to get a bit better towards the end of the basho. Sure, his opponents were not exaclty powerhouses, but it seemed the leg wasn't bothering him as much. Or he just had some really strong painkillers. For a big body, Chiyomaru doesn't seem to be able to generate any power at all. It's weird to see him pushing and pushing and not moving his opponents one inch. Whereas he himself is pushed around quite easily. And why would they pair up Chiyotairyuu with Jokoryu of all people, who was basically hopping on one leg to Juryo anyway? That boggles my mind, beating a seriously injured maegashira does in no way prove a juryo rikishi's worth for promotion to makuuchi. 4 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Asameshimae 220 Posted May 24, 2015 (edited) Someone was talking earlier in the thread about consecutive yusho starting from below ozeki - and it's possible effect on yok promotion. This makes me think of Futabayama. In the middle of his still intact record winning streak he got a zensho yusho as a sekiwake then two consecutive zensho yusho as ozeki before he became ozeki. Though I realize criteria change over the years, if that's not proof you need at least two ozeki basho to test your mettle, I don't know what is! (He of course went directly on from there to win two more consecutive zensho yusho as yok which made him an instant dai-Yokozuna if there ever was one). Edited May 24, 2015 by Asameshimae Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Andreas21 182 Posted May 24, 2015 Yokozuna Deliberation Council is in charge for the promotion. Note - council. They can promote whoever they wish. Is that really so? So far I have had the impression that the NSK has to propose a rikishi for promotion. When Kaio had a Yusho followed by a 12-3 jun-yusho the rijicho said they are not going to put him up for discussion and I do not remember reading anything about it later on. I don't know why this distinction is mentioned at all. My point was that they (whoever they are) can promote whoever they wish. And this is valid. The distinction between NSK and YDC is superficial. The YDC belongs to the NSK. It is not an independent body. NSK is in charge for the whole professional Sumo and for issues with respect to Yokozuna, it entitles the YDC. Sure, the Riji propose a Rikishi for promotion, and the YDC has a say, usually nods and gives some remarks. Possibly, the Rijicho decides everything. So what? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rhyen 1,801 Posted May 24, 2015 I wonder if Terunofuji is starting to feel a hangover or is he still drinking into the morning daybreak? http://www.sanspo.com/sports/news/20150524/sum15052422470021-n1.html Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bettega 423 Posted May 24, 2015 I love how everyone says Hakuho is washed up when he just won 6 of the last 7 basho's. Wish I could be that washed up. He's not finished by far. But he's having some problems and losing some bouts. Maybe the Hak's hegemony is close to an end, not Hak himself - I think he'll get something around 40 yusho before Intai. And he'll stop not for losing, but for lack of motivation. In 4 of his last 5 tournaments he went either 14-1 or 15-0...Definitely a problem winning matches! He should retire immediately. As I said, only the start of a possible trend (the end of Hak's hegemony). Hak's Intai I believe will be about 2017 (ou less, if the problem is motivation) I do believe that he'll get many more bashos, but I also think that we're watching the start of a new trend, less hegemonic. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
