Asashosakari 18,786 Posted May 22, 2015 I wonder if Futabayama filed a complaint with them. 4 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
torquato 1,075 Posted May 22, 2015 I think they'd have to give it to him if he won two yusho's in a row somehow, or else I know I'd be filing a complaint if I were him. Since standards have dropped, one yusho and one 2nd place should now be good enough as well. Hak had 2 2nd place finishes, a yusho and another 2nd place and still didn't become Yokozuna. Shows you how times have changed. Taiho had a 2nd and a title at Sekiwake but didn't get the nod until 2 tournaments later with another 2nd place. Nope, that's why he wrote "nil". Yokozuna promotion just starts from scratch with ozeki debut and is not based on the ozeki-clinching basho. Yes. A Yokozuna is only an Oseki, however a distinguished Oseki. You must be Oseki first to become a distinguished Oseki. In natsu 2006 Hak got his first Yusho as Oseki. The following tournament he became second and was not promoted to Yokozuna. Even nowadays he would not have been promoted. He was second after the regular 15 bouts, but not in the (shared) lead. Kakuryu was in his second tournament that led to promotion in the lead after the regular bouts. He was, as to say, in yusho position. That is the difference. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Asashosakari 18,786 Posted May 22, 2015 In natsu 2006 Hak got his first Yusho as Oseki. The following tournament he became second and was not promoted to Yokozuna. Even nowadays he would not have been promoted. He was second after the regular 15 bouts, but not in the (shared) lead.And worse, the yusho was decided on Day 14. Hakuho trailed Asashoryu by two wins from Day 9 to 14, so it was much less of a yusho race than the final standings imply. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
yorikiried by fate 1,989 Posted May 22, 2015 You never know what kind of favour Hakuho owed to Shotenro... I'm late for the party, but Shotenro's kinboshi was the mother of all flukes. Some slipping action of Hakuho involved IIRC. Must happen even to the best ones once in a while. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
yorikiried by fate 1,989 Posted May 22, 2015 That bout is the exact reason why Kise will never be a Yokozuna. All sports have lots of people with talent, a few people with exceptional talent and an even fewer with exceptional talent AND the ability to impose their will on a contest and hence get the best out of that exceptional talent. Those few are the absolute champions, the all time greats and they are few and far between. That ability to will yourself to win when you are up against someone just as talented, but not quite as mentally strong, is what makes the great ones. Kise, unfortunately is in category two, rather than category three - exceptionally talented, but can't control that talent at will when he needs to. I've always been a Kise fan, always hoped he'd get there one day, but I have begun to accept he never will. Bugger. Fascinating comment. And very evocative. (Made me think of Asashoryu winning this incredible bout hanging on his opponent and keeping himself alive for the needed split second. Who was that again? I just remember that a rematch was called incorrectly.) Anyhow, the absolute will to win is prominently on display with the true champion, you are right. Currently, I see that in Harumafuji and Terunofuji. Interestingly enough, I wouldn't put Hakuho in that category. He seems just so far off the scale of category two that any winning intent is obsolete for the inevitable outcome. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jakusotsu 5,815 Posted May 22, 2015 (Made me think of Asashoryu winning this incredible bout hanging on his opponent and keeping himself alive for the needed split second. Who was that again? I just remember that a rematch was called incorrectly.) 10 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
yorikiried by fate 1,989 Posted May 22, 2015 It should be mandatory to include this video in the first post of every thread. 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Asashosakari 18,786 Posted May 22, 2015 Been wondering this since early in the basho - is it just me or does Toyonoshima look...not quite flabby, but less physically defined than he did only a short while ago? Doesn't seem to be in top shape right now. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
torquato 1,075 Posted May 22, 2015 (Made me think of Asashoryu winning this incredible bout hanging on his opponent and keeping himself alive for the needed split second. Who was that again? I just remember that a rematch was called incorrectly.) WOW! That's amazing! Don't we have a thread "Greatest bouts ever, everyone needs to watch"? This one clearly belongs in there... 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Andreas21 182 Posted May 22, 2015 I think they'd have to give it to him if he won two yusho's in a row somehow, or else I know I'd be filing a complaint if I were him. Yokozuna Deliberation Council is in charge for the promotion. Note - council. They can promote whoever they wish. Complaint is useless. They'd given guidelines (they didn't have to) - one yusho and one basho worthy of a yusho, consecutively. As an Ozeki. There are also soft criteria: Hinkaku. But they can change the guidelines any time. Luckily, their decisions in the past are quite consistent. The Yokozuna promotion business appears to be quite predictable. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Highway 46 Posted May 22, 2015 Feel bad for Kise, he goes on some mini runs where he looks impressive, but can't sustain in for long enough. Still, he sometimes give Hakuho a good match. And nothing wrong with Goeido's henka....exactly how much bigger is Kaisei than him? In most other sports they wouldn't even be allowed to compete against each other. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
krindel 671 Posted May 22, 2015 And nothing wrong with Goeido's henka....exactly how much bigger is Kaisei than him? In most other sports they wouldn't even be allowed to compete against each other. This is sumo however. The standard by which people are judged is not size, but rank. Goeido is the "bigger" one, bigger by 25 ranks. In a normal situation they indeed wouldn't be allowed to compete against each other, since someone of Kaisei's rank would need to "earn" the right to fight someone of Goeido's rank, not the other way around... Having said that, I need to clarify that I don't personally find anything reprehensible about that sort of henka. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rhyen 1,809 Posted May 23, 2015 This is interesting. If Goeido withdraws today and doesn't return tomorrow. Does Terunofuji get a fusen win tomorrow? Will he be allowed to take part in the final 3 bouts on Shenshuraku? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jakusotsu 5,815 Posted May 23, 2015 (edited) Does Terunofuji get a fusen win tomorrow?No. There are still plenty of other rikishi left. Edited May 23, 2015 by Jakusotsu Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Gurowake 3,921 Posted May 23, 2015 (edited) They'll have to have a non-sanyaku in the soroibumi, but as stated there are plenty of rikishi to choose from (I'm guessing Aoiyama), and this happened when Kisenosato withdrew the same day Hatsu 14 (I recall asking something about the soroibumi at some point and someone recalling Tamawashi being in it then - before he had ever actually made sanyaku). They also need to give someone in Makushita an extra match when there's a sekitori withdrawal at this juncture. I'm not sure if they might use it to clarify that promotion situation there, or if they only give it to rikishi not able to get KK. In the latter case, it would fall quite a ways down the banzuke, going to the loser of Sotairyu-Hokaho. Maybe they might just give it to Sotairyu regardless since even as a 4-4 he's not going to be considered for promotion with so many other candidates and Hokaho is outside the top 10. Edited May 23, 2015 by Gurowake Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Morty 1,480 Posted May 23, 2015 That bout is the exact reason why Kise will never be a Yokozuna. All sports have lots of people with talent, a few people with exceptional talent and an even fewer with exceptional talent AND the ability to impose their will on a contest and hence get the best out of that exceptional talent. Those few are the absolute champions, the all time greats and they are few and far between. That ability to will yourself to win when you are up against someone just as talented, but not quite as mentally strong, is what makes the great ones. Kise, unfortunately is in category two, rather than category three - exceptionally talented, but can't control that talent at will when he needs to. I've always been a Kise fan, always hoped he'd get there one day, but I have begun to accept he never will. Bugger. Fascinating comment. And very evocative. (Made me think of Asashoryu winning this incredible bout hanging on his opponent and keeping himself alive for the needed split second. Who was that again? I just remember that a rematch was called incorrectly.) Anyhow, the absolute will to win is prominently on display with the true champion, you are right. Currently, I see that in Harumafuji and Terunofuji. Interestingly enough, I wouldn't put Hakuho in that category. He seems just so far off the scale of category two that any winning intent is obsolete for the inevitable outcome. You can read it in Terunofuji's face with every bout. It says to his opponent "you have to beat me and you have to be real good to beat me. If you aren't on your best game I will beat you". He wants that contact, he believes he can beat everyone regardless of who they are. He has talent but he is willing himself to get the best out of it and that's why I think he will be the next Yokozuna. Re Hak, yes he is so much more talented than everyone else, but if he couldn't marshall his head he wouldn't be anywhere near as dominant as he is. Supreme psychological control, knows exactly what he has to do to win and can handle the pressure. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Chiyozakura 130 Posted May 23, 2015 I think they'd have to give it to him if he won two yusho's in a row somehow, or else I know I'd be filing a complaint if I were him. Yokozuna Deliberation Council is in charge for the promotion. Note - council. They can promote whoever they wish. Is that really so? So far I have had the impression that the NSK has to propose a rikishi for promotion. When Kaio had a Yusho followed by a 12-3 jun-yusho the rijicho said they are not going to put him up for discussion and I do not remember reading anything about it later on. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Tsubame 356 Posted May 23, 2015 With that KK for Kyokutenho today he will stay in makuuchi and can start annother yusho-run next basho! Exciting! 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Senkoho 552 Posted May 23, 2015 (edited) I have no idea how Takarafuji wins his bouts. He kind of just stands there, with his arms in the proximity of his opponent's ribs, sometimes on his mawashi, and suddenly the opponent is down or out. Edited May 23, 2015 by Senkoho Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Masumasumasu 902 Posted May 23, 2015 Kaisei looks like his dog just died. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kuroimori 1,634 Posted May 23, 2015 Hakuho wanted to make Senshuraku a bit more interesting, I guess. Completely refused to get to Kise's mawashi. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kuroimori 1,634 Posted May 23, 2015 Kise baby! Well, every now and then Kise gets some breadcrumbs, but this loss was dedicated to Kise but for Terunofuji. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Masumasumasu 902 Posted May 23, 2015 Hakuho wanted to make Senshuraku a bit more interesting. You mean Kisenosato. 3 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
