Natsu 2015 Basho Talk (spoiler alert!)

[shumitto 418]

Harumafuji can be really disappointing. It is the closest and also weakest Yusho race in a while and he is not there. I always enjoyed his style but I wouldn't miss him should he call it a day soon.

I don't know what the Kyokai say about how the mawashi should be tied, probably they say nothing at all, but Aoiyama shouldn't be mounting the dohyo with such a loose one. Kaisei got the grip, which wasn't as deep as Aoiyama's, but it wouldn't have mattered anyway as it wasn't possible to pull a[edit] throw holding such an unravelling piece of silk. Only Kitataiki can have a looser mawashi, but with his sumo it doesn't matter at this point.

If Abiko confirms his good form we can have in him, Mitakeumi and Shodai, three college grads advancing to Juryo for the first time in more than 15 years. The only one I know slightly well is Abiko, but it must be a good thing. Going in the opposite direction Daido, Shotenro and Wakanosato all look like Sotairyu did a year ago and thus are three rikishi I don't picture finishing the year in Juryo, unless one of them pulls a Kasuganishiki.

On a more personal note, I am kind of enjoying Wakanoshima's good run in Juryo. My access to sumo doesn't permit me to comment on the content of his sumo but after collapsing as a veteran makushitan who fulfills the long awaited dream of sekitorihood he has made his way back very well. Kudos.

Edited May 21, 2015 by shumitto

[Tsubame 356]

And think of all the hype that would start if a japanese ozeki would win a yusho, esp. when it is Kisenosato... :-D

[Kishinoyama 582]

And think of all the hype that would start if a japanese ozeki would win a yusho, esp. when it is Kisenosato... :-D

The hype is the part that I dread..... (Blinking...)

[luispereira 383]

And think of all the hype that would start if a japanese ozeki would win a yusho, esp. when it is Kisenosato... :-D

The hype is the part that I dread..... (Blinking...)

if it happens in this one or in the future...well.. they have to though it up and keep pushing man! bring it! :-D

[Gurowake 3,919]

I don't know what the Kyokai say about how the mawashi should be tied, probably they say nothing at all, but Aoiyama shouldn't be mounting the dohyo with such a loose one. Kaisei got the grip, which wasn't as deep as Aoiyama's, but it wouldn't have mattered anyway as it wasn't possible to pull a[edit] throw holding such an unravelling piece of silk. Only Kitataiki can have a looser mawashi, but with his sumo it doesn't matter at this point.

At very least, on Wikipedia it says that rikishi often choose how exactly their mawashi is prepared in anticipation of what their opponents are likely to do, but there's no citation for it. I've not heard it mentioned anywhere on this forum, and wouldn't be surprised if someone made it up after seeing a match like Aoiyama-Kaisei and thinking Aoiyama intentionally made his mawashi that way.

[rzombie1988 157]

I'm not a Kaisei fan but I'm rooting for him to pull off the win. Will never happen but that would be the funniest thing.

Terunofuji is looking great. I called it months ago when he started racking up KK's. He's already at 21 wins. He will likely get another one or two, maybe even three if he's on the ball. I can't see him not being Ozeki by September.

Ichinojo looked good today. If he'd just stop being passive and bully people he could be an Ozeki. Belt stall Ichinojo ain't going nowhere but maegashira.

Kisenosato blows it again, sports at 9! Yadda yadda yadda

I'd like to see more beltwork by Tochinoshin. He's strong for sure and he has it in him to make it Ozeki, but he's gotta start going a bit technical because his power isn't doing it.

Oh and there's no way Harumafuji is retiring. Harumafuji plays a high risk and high reward style. His tachi-ai is so hard and fast that it's hard to control if he doesn't immediately latch on. Like a lot of other people, he just has the unfortunate luck of having to compete against Hakuho, who is super dominant and consistent. No Hakuho? He would have a few more, Kisenosato would have gotten one and I can gurantee we'd have an oddball win or two.

Edited May 21, 2015 by rzombie1988

[rzombie1988 157]

And think of all the hype that would start if a japanese ozeki would win a yusho, esp. when it is Kisenosato... :-D

He'd be yokozuna automatically win a yusho. I don't doubt it at all.

[I am the Yokozuna 186]

Not bad yesterday from a so-called hastily promoted, supposedly underperforming Goeido, who still might go makekoshi. Fortunately, he, besides Kisenosato and Harumafuji, is the only one currently providing serious contention in the Hakuho bouts. Hakuho was quite petulant, for refusing to leave the dohyo. I watched it on NHK, so they did not show him bowing, so I presume he might have skipped that part. Then, he stood up on the hanamichi refusing to sit down and, as always in such situations, refused later to talk to reporters. Quite the child. Probably he hoped/wanted at least a monoii, but he was clearly beaten, without being ever in control or a winning position. He got beaten, nothing to worry about, given the competition he would win it once again.

Terunofuji displayed quite powerful sumo. He would be a great addition to the oozekis. Really like how he has versatile strategies.

I skipped the discussion on Kakuryu being a high-performing yokozuna. It does not matter whether he reached 12 wins in his first year, as long as he does not win anything or threatening the winner of the basho until the senshuraku or even push it to a ketteisen - it does not matter. For all I know, he might get 14 wins and still be left without a second title and in my book that is commendable effort but not a yokozuna level performance - yushos are what matter for them, especially for someone with a single one. Yokozunas from previous periods are also relevant. Different set of rikishis, different level of competition, preparation and so on. Not a valid comparison. That is why I said comparing Kakuryu to Harumafuji, we could say Kakuryu has failed badly so far.

[Kintamayama 44,354]

Not bad yesterday from a so-called hastily promoted, supposedly underperforming Goeido, who still might go makekoshi. Fortunately, he, besides Kisenosato and Harumafuji, is the only one currently providing serious contention in the Hakuho bouts. Hakuho was quite petulant, for refusing to leave the dohyo. I watched it on NHK, so they did not show him bowing, so I presume he might have skipped that part. Then, he stood up on the hanamichi refusing to sit down and, as always in such situations, refused later to talk to reporters. Quite the child. Probably he hoped/wanted at least a monoii, but he was clearly beaten, without being ever in control or a winning position. He got beaten, nothing to worry about, given the competition he would win it once again.

In a rare show of sarcasm on a live NHK sumo broadcast yesterday, top commentator Kitanofuji: "If there was a monoii, the result would only be confirmation of the initial decision. Even a child could see that."

Priceless.

[luispereira 383]

damn kise....

[krindel 671]

Now all the semi-realistic hope left (barring an Ikioi or Kaisei miracle) is to hope that Kise or Harumafuji will topple Hakuho even without a real motive, and that Terunofuji will manage to win two (I assume he'll be facing the Sakaigawa duo?) to force a playoff. Even then, he'll have to beat Hakuho for the second time in two tournaments, which goes without saying is less than easy.

Overall, I have to admit that its shaping up to be a disappointment to watch the Yusho race dwindle (again) to a very clear Hakuho advantage with two days to spare, even when he did everything he could to mess things up right from the start.

[Jakusotsu 5,815]

The yusho race became disappointing as soon as Kyokutenho was out of it.

[Kishinoyama 582]

It looks like Goeido has been studying Harumafuji's tachi-ai........

[ALAKTORN 346]

In a rare show of sarcasm on a live NHK sumo broadcast yesterday, top commentator Kitanofuji: "If there was a monoii, the result would only be confirmation of the initial decision. Even a child could see that."

Priceless.

That’s hilarious. Do you have a video with that comment?

Edit: Oh yeah, I don’t understand how Aminishiki won that bout. He lost it.

Edited May 22, 2015 by ALAKTORN

[dingo 1,160]

I would say Goeido didn't really get any immediate advantage from moving to the side though. But the commentators also pretty clearly stated that he probably wanted to avoid a chest-to-chest tachiai with Kaisei.

And once again, Kisenosato has no-one to blame but himself. If he didn't have those silly losses to Tochinoshin and Myogiryu, he'd be even with Hakuho right now.

[Morty 1,480]

That bout is the exact reason why Kise will never be a Yokozuna. All sports have lots of people with talent, a few people with exceptional talent and an even fewer with exceptional talent AND the ability to impose their will on a contest and hence get the best out of that exceptional talent. Those few are the absolute champions, the all time greats and they are few and far between. That ability to will yourself to win when you are up against someone just as talented, but not quite as mentally strong, is what makes the great ones. Kise, unfortunately is in category two, rather than category three - exceptionally talented, but can't control that talent at will when he needs to. I've always been a Kise fan, always hoped he'd get there one day, but I have begun to accept he never will. Bugger.

[Benevolance 2,478]

So, on the unlikely chance that Terunofuji can secure the yusho this time around, what are his odds of starting a yokozuna run?

[Jakusotsu 5,815]

So, on the unlikely chance that Terunofuji can secure the yusho this time around, what are his odds of starting a yokozuna run?

nil

[Shikona 139]

Yes, very disappointing tachiai henka from Goeido (though totally different from Harumafuji's hit and shift), and the top of Aminishi's toe dragged in the dirt damn close to Arawashi's heel touching down outside the tawara.

Hardly different, except that Harumafuji is faster and can get a little closer before sliding around. A good, effective move by either one; no disappointment about that.

[Shikona 139]

Yes, very disappointing tachiai henka from Goeido (though totally different from Harumafuji's hit and shift), and the top of Aminishi's toe dragged in the dirt damn close to Arawashi's heel touching down outside the tawara.

Hardly different, except that Harumafuji is faster and can get a little closer before sliding around. A good, effective move by either one; no disappointment about that.

That's fine, I can agree to disagree. I see Harumafuji hit straight on, shift to the side, all while obtaining a grip all in a single motion...no loss of connection with aite at any single moment. I see Goeido jump to the side without any connection at all to aite, and wait for his opponent's next move.

We will disagree. I see a difference only in appearance. Harumafuji darts to the side, making a glancing blow to his opponent, but letting him go past and use his momentum against him, which is the whole point of a good henka. Goeido is certainly not as good at it, so Kaisei was able to stop himself, though Goeido is certainly not "waiting," but busy establishing a strong grip from the side which he then used to knock him over. The intention is the same.

[Tsubame 356]

So, on the unlikely chance that Terunofuji can secure the yusho this time around, what are his odds of starting a yokozuna run?

nil

A question without being related to our basho. Pure theoretical nature. But can a sekiwake win in his third (ozeki-run) basho win a yusho, and as a shin-ozeki win the very next yusho too. So he would be an ozeki with two consecutive yushos. I never heard or read that that constellation would NOT lead to a yokozuna promotion.

Any other thoughts on that matter?

[Yubinhaad 11,546]

Kitanoumi-beya's Hakiai fought and won the final bout of his career on Day 13, having decided to retire. He made his debut as a Makushita Tsukedashi having been the 2004 Gakusei Yokozuna (collegiate champion) in his final year at Kinki University. Unfortunately he suffered a terrible knee injury which kept him out of action for the best part of two years, and he became the first ex-Tsukedashi to fall off the banzuke.

On his eventual return he rapidly rose back to Makushita, but that was as far as he would go. In 2012 Hatsu he fought Satoyama on Day 13 - had he won, Hakiai would have won the yusho and been promoted to Juryo, but Satoyama won the bout and earned promotion himself. Hakiai was at his highest career rank of Makushita 2e in the next basho and was called up to Juryo on Day 3 to fight... Satoyama. Once again, Satoyama was the winner. Unfortunately that was the only time Hakiai got to wear an oichomage, as he later suffered another injury which cut the basho short, and he never got close to Juryo again.

Today he received a bouquet of flowers from someone in the hanamichi, and was also greeted by former Maegashira Oiwato, a fellow Kinki grad and collegiate champion a year before Hakiai.

[rzombie1988 157]

So, on the unlikely chance that Terunofuji can secure the yusho this time around, what are his odds of starting a yokozuna run?

nil

A question without being related to our basho. Pure theoretical nature. But can a sekiwake win in his third (ozeki-run) basho win a yusho, and as a shin-ozeki win the very next yusho too. So he would be an ozeki with two consecutive yushos. I never heard or read that that constellation would NOT lead to a yokozuna promotion.

Any other thoughts on that matter?

I think they'd have to give it to him if he won two yusho's in a row somehow, or else I know I'd be filing a complaint if I were him. Since standards have dropped, one yusho and one 2nd place should now be good enough as well. Hak had 2 2nd place finishes, a yusho and another 2nd place and still didn't become Yokozuna. Shows you how times have changed.

Taiho had a 2nd and a title at Sekiwake but didn't get the nod until 2 tournaments later with another 2nd place.

Edited May 22, 2015 by rzombie1988

[Doitsuyama 1,173]

So, on the unlikely chance that Terunofuji can secure the yusho this time around, what are his odds of starting a yokozuna run?

nil

A question without being related to our basho. Pure theoretical nature. But can a sekiwake win in his third (ozeki-run) basho win a yusho, and as a shin-ozeki win the very next yusho too. So he would be an ozeki with two consecutive yushos. I never heard or read that that constellation would NOT lead to a yokozuna promotion.

Any other thoughts on that matter?

I think they'd have to give it to him if he won two yusho's in a row somehow, or else I know I'd be filing a complaint if I were him. Since standards have dropped, one yusho and one 2nd place should now be good enough as well. Hak had 2 2nd place finishes, a yusho and another 2nd place and still didn't become Yokozuna. Shows you how times have changed.

Taiho had a 2nd and a title at Sekiwake but didn't get the nod until 2 tournaments later with another 2nd place.

Nope, that's why he wrote "nil". Yokozuna promotion just starts from scratch with ozeki debut and is not based on the ozeki-clinching basho.

[Frinkanohana 13]

Nope, that's why he wrote "nil". Yokozuna promotion just starts from scratch with ozeki debut and is not based on the ozeki-clinching basho.

Best example is Futabayama. Yusho in his last sekiwake basho and yusho in his first ozeki basho, but no promotion to yokozuna until after another yusho in his second ozeki basho.

Edited May 22, 2015 by Frinkanohana