PhorCillic

[Open Alpha] Rikishi Game

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So I have invested money (or better say wasted budget) for training a guy which I should better rename to Sugishita. If only I had known this before... :-(

Ganzohnesushi

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Remember, it's still alpha. Many other things may happen.

EDIT:

I think they aren't wasted. Look at Jd2e Kutasamu, a guy with [spoiler!]... 2 Talent. But (still) in top.

Edited by PhorCillic

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Minor fixes and... 5th Day. :>

Pandaazuma - could you check if the site "minecraft.org.pl" is working at your location? I am negotiating a server from that host. If we make an aggreement,

the game may get some progress

Also - Anyone would take part in improving the game? Looks like I need someone with huge knowledge about sumo (for example about inter-basho activities).

As well as people willing to help the game reach more places (translation)

Edited by PhorCillic

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One more thought of mine:

To have more "fairness" in this Game their should exist a "deadline" for each Day of the Basho to do Training and/or use Effort....

...and how does an deciding Ketteisen (as we have now in Jonidan) work?? (Day 8 and more...??)

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Deadline? Very, VERY good idea. I'll try to set it, but it will need a server with Cron. Negotiating one though :/

Ketteisen? Well, I think it will be normal HtH situation. But I have very few time today (wedding in the family XD)

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One more thought of mine:

To have more "fairness" in this Game their should exist a "deadline" for each Day of the Basho to do Training and/or use Effort....

...and how does an deciding Ketteisen (as we have now in Jonidan) work?? (Day 8 and more...??)

I agree with deadline for training, but why for effort?

This value is not visible before the bout, only after, so it does not matter if your opponent increases effort just before the bout starts,

so that you can't react to it.

Incidentally, this basho it happened that effort was reflected in the "chances bar", but it was due to a bug.

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One more thought of mine:

To have more "fairness" in this Game their should exist a "deadline" for each Day of the Basho to do Training and/or use Effort....

...and how does an deciding Ketteisen (as we have now in Jonidan) work?? (Day 8 and more...??)

I agree with deadline for training, but why for effort?

This value is not visible before the bout, only after, so it does not matter if your opponent increases effort just before the bout starts,

so that you can't react to it.

Incidentally, this basho it happened that effort was reflected in the "chances bar", but it was due to a bug.

I didnt know that there was a "bug" - I only noticed that "effort" was reflected in the "chances bar"...

... BTW: It´s a nice only little time (or none as you see how good "Hajuhi-Beya" performed without its owner had been "online") needing Game!!!!

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I spend at it... about 4-5 hours daily. To try to improve the game, because it became my Engineer's Work. :)

So, Deadline only for training... Deal. As soon as I'll got a server with crontab to allow automatically "lock" and play matches.

Hajuhi-oyakata? I see her online about 5-7 times/basho. She was extreme lucky at the start (two 5*-ers o_o) and quickly started to skilling them. (Lv5 in Easter) She also has propably lot of effort, because I see her spending EPs only versus Strong opponents. But yes, she is less often visiting the game. A chance maybe?

This 'break' I'll focus on "requiring a little more time". So... I need to do a little research. And I need your help. :)

What do you think should be nice addition to the game?
I thought about option for oyakatas to make a Jungyo (in form of 'player-made tournaments'), for ¥ and sparrings.

I want to improve gameplay at the moment, so ideas for summer break (Foreigners, Rikishi Avatar) will wait to summer break. The second one will need a someone to create lot of graphics too (My graphic skills are... erm...)

And there is a place for your ideas. Each idea may be added. Even trivial (oyakata's nationality anyone?) :)

Edited by PhorCillic

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New Banzuke has been "calculated" and published. How much I screwed this time? XD

About the "deadline": I have a good (temporary) idea. "Training lock" during the basho time, with start at Day 1 Additional Matchmaking and end at Day 7 Results. It would be like that until I'll got a cron server. What do you think? :)

And now I am starting coding Jungyo system. Anyone want to help/advice?

Current version of plans (may be changed)

I think about Jungyo as a possibility to sparings and money.
- Jungyos are started by oyakatas. There (propably) will be more than 1 Jungyo/day, so I think about a 'lock' like: 1 Jungyo by oyakata in whole 'between-basho time'. Demo-beya rikishi can't take part in Jungyo (obvious).

- Oyakatas decide, when the event happens (date) and whose of their rikishi are taking part in Jungyo. 1 rikishi = 1 match.

- There will be a price for each rikishi to take part. (specified by oyakata)

- But there will be also a rewards, one for winner, and second one for host. So, it may be profitable.

- Effort may be counted in jungyo matches. But remember it's regaining only during basho.

How it will work?

- Oyakata A creates a Jungyo (name required).

- Oyakata B selects some of his rikishi and takes part in Jungyo, pays a fee.

- Oyakata C... (etc.)

- Oyakata A has the list of all participating rikishi. arranges matches (may select some matches manually, may not. Division-lock.)

- Matches are published on the site, giving the rest a time to react. (question: with or without "Chances bar"?)

- Matches are played.

- Oyakatas get a prize for their rikishi winning their matches. Oyakata A also get some Y for each match, according to it's quality. (thinking about the way to calculate it.)

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Is the Banzuke really published? It says Natsu 2015 but my Rikishi are still in the same position as before.

Why "training lock" during Basho? I would like to invest the small daily income immediately in training for my guys. They really need it :-)

Jungyo system? I don't think many of the regular players will participate in further activities between the Hon-Basho. We need to charge our batteries for the next tournament. But then again it might just be me...

Ganzohnesushi

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Banzuke - whoopsie, it updated only in PL version. Fixed. :)

"Training lock" - I am looking for an opportunity to include Mischashimaru's idea with current server restrictions. And this server hasn't a possibility to automate some scripts (crontab). It's still only an idea, and I'll propably make a poll on the page about it.

Jungyo system - Main idea comes from Takteam-oyakata. (Stiui, he isn't here on the forums). He said once "Game, to keep players, need to be active all the time. Players should have a possibility to do something everyday". And gave a huge amount of (non-sumo...) ideas, what may our rikishi do between bashos. That's why there is a Shoutbox on the site (but looks like only I am writing there... :( ). That's why there are forums or facebook-like activity page.

We have 25 registered stables. 18 are somewhat active (their Oyakata has been logged in during the last three weeks). And I am trying to do something to bring some more players. Maybe some another promotion/banner exchange?

At the moment, my main priority is preparing all the scripted sites to be easily translated (language tables). And only two of them are remaining to be prepared like this: New Main (Current day Torikumi, previous day results, awards) (current one will be renamed to Blog) and Basho results. When they will be done - I am going to add some new languages. :)

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I am not sure Mischashimaru's idea was to lock training during whole basho.

I believe he meant that it's not fair if he sees the chances bar before the bout and sets effort accordingly and his opponent right before the

start of the bout trains his rikishi so that the chances bar goes up in his favour.

So it can be too late to react, you waste your effort etc.

I would suggest disabling training possibiliy up to X hours/minutes before the bout.

But training during basho is fine in my opinion. Real rikishi do.

Regarding jungyo - it depends really how it's gonna be implemented but I have my fears that if you don't play everyday then you stay behind.

Also I fear that in jungyo good rikishi will win more, bad rikishi will win less and the rich will become richer and poor will become poorer.

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Both my Rikishi Ganzohnesake (jk15e) and Ganzohnetofu (jk16w) finished 5-2, but on the new Banzuke Ganzohnetofu is now ranked ahead of Ganzohnesake. Moreover, Wolfhana (jk16e) after his 5-2 fell also behind my Tofu-less fighter. I would like to understand how this can happen.

Ganzohnesushi

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I am not sure Mischashimaru's idea was to lock training during whole basho.

I believe he meant that it's not fair if he sees the chances bar before the bout and sets effort accordingly and his opponent right before the

start of the bout trains his rikishi so that the chances bar goes up in his favour.

So it can be too late to react, you waste your effort etc.

I would suggest disabling training possibiliy up to X hours/minutes before the bout.

But training during basho is fine in my opinion. Real rikishi do.

Regarding jungyo - it depends really how it's gonna be implemented but I have my fears that if you don't play everyday then you stay behind.

Also I fear that in jungyo good rikishi will win more, bad rikishi will win less and the rich will become richer and poor will become poorer.

The thing is, disabling training some minutes before the bout will be a problem thanks to the server with no possibility to 'schedule' things. That's why I had this partial idea.

About Jungyo: this may be a problem. That's why I need some help in discussing about the idea. What may be good, what not, etc. Even when prizes for jungyo will be the same as in Mz (2-1), if player has huge amount of rikishi, he may quickly be above the rest (But Demo-beya can't participate... :P).

So... um... *thinking* 1 Jungyo per Oyakata it's a must-be. Looks like the 'signup fee' for each jungyo should be rising for each rikishi, too.

About Banzuke: so looks like the script has problems. Again. I am looking at details in db to see, what happened.

So... Ganzohnetofu, Ganzohnesake, Wolfhana and Fujiko have exactly the same result (3-4 in April, 5-2 in Natsu). Looks I need to include an additional value (like winning streak or something) if I want to keep it nice and clean.

With winning streak included, it would be like:

[3] GANZOHNETOFU Jd15     WOLFHANA [2]
[1] FUJIKO       Jd16 GANZOHNESAKE [0]

Still, I am inexperienced in details of making a banzuke, but I am proud the current script is about 95% good. XD

Edited by PhorCillic

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I am not sure Mischashimaru's idea was to lock training during whole basho.

I believe he meant that it's not fair if he sees the chances bar before the bout and sets effort accordingly and his opponent right before the

start of the bout trains his rikishi so that the chances bar goes up in his favour.

So it can be too late to react, you waste your effort etc.

I would suggest disabling training possibiliy up to X hours/minutes before the bout.

But training during basho is fine in my opinion. Real rikishi do.

Thats completely right!!!!

If there is no other possibility I would rather prefer to cancel the viewable "chances bar" before the bout takes place.....

..for me it would also be interesting to see the "chances bar" (before and/or after the bout) for all bouts and not only for my own Rikishi

About Jungyo:

I also think, that this more "action" is maybe to much activity.....

...esp. when a basho (in far or not far future) will last longer with the Installation from "Juryo-Division" = 15 Days action

At least:

With "only little Time spent a Day" I meant the Time for us "Players" - I can imagine that for the "Owner" of the game much more daily time is needed

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So... Ganzohnetofu, Ganzohnesake, Wolfhana and Fujiko have exactly the same result (3-4 in April, 5-2 in Natsu). Looks I need to include an additional value (like winning streak or something) if I want to keep it nice and clean.


With winning streak included, it would be like:

[3] GANZOHNETOFU Jd15     WOLFHANA [2]
[1] FUJIKO       Jd16 GANZOHNESAKE [0]
Still, I am inexperienced in details of making a banzuke, but I am proud the current script is about 95% good. XD

Winning streak? For heaven's sake, no. All these Rikishi had the same result, so Banzuke position must be in the same order as before, i.e. Ganzohnesake (jk15e) - Wolfhana (jk16e) - Ganzohnetofu (jk16w) - Fujiko (jk20e). Of course they don't need to be clubbed together as there might be some other Rikishi coming from higher ranks with a 4-3, 3-4 or 2-5. Or someone from coming behind with a 6-1 or 7-0. Such Rikishi could be placed between the above mention quartet.

Ganzohnesushi

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Jungyo - If there is really a "must" behind, I'm out of this game. Business travels and vacations are somehow arranged around the Hon-Basho calendar to be able to play the games. But any additional obligation would be too much of a burden for me. This might work well for students :-) but once 'real life' has caught you, time for games is limited.

Ganzohnesushi

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Winning streak? For heaven's sake, no. All these Rikishi had the same result, so Banzuke position must be in the same order as before, i.e. Ganzohnesake (jk15e) - Wolfhana (jk16e) - Ganzohnetofu (jk16w) - Fujiko (jk20e). Of course they don't need to be clubbed together as there might be some other Rikishi coming from higher ranks with a 4-3, 3-4 or 2-5. Or someone from coming behind with a 6-1 or 7-0. Such Rikishi could be placed between the above mention quartet.

Ganzohnesushi

Okay, so in next banzuke I have to add 'previous position' to prevent switching players. Thanks for advice :)

Jungyo - Maybe it is really a wrong idea...

I am "caught" by real life. And looks like our community is in that "older" group.

Edited by PhorCillic

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"Okay, so in next banzuke I have to add 'previous position' to prevent switching players. Thanks for advice :)"

I am not sure if it's only about switching players or not.

The point is that the banzuke should follow the rules that are used for creating the real banzuke.

If you have a slot on banzuke, like Jd5e and have 2 guys at Jd7e and Jd7w with the same score (i.e. 4-3) then you have to put the guy at Jd7e on the empty slot (given there are no better candidates).

The Jd7w guy must be behind him. It's just one of many rules that need to be kept.

For sure "previous position" is a starting point. You can't create banzuke just by looking at last basho results only.

And your banzuke also seems to consider the quality of opponents, not only the W-L record (at least in previous banzuke). But in real sumo it doesn't matter

if you beat yokozuna or the weakest guy. A win is a win and it's always counted equally for banzuke purposes.

OTOH I know that to create an algorithm that creates the banzuke automatically so that it follows all the rules is not an easy task.

I am sure PhorCillic will improve it step by step so that soon everyone will be happy with it.

It's already better than the previous one!

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Yes, creating that script is very, very difficult. Knowing the fact, I am here from Kyushu 2014, anything may help me - to create a good game with keeping the rules as close to original as possible. Any info, any advice, any comment gives a better version coupe hours later/next basho.

So Goly, Misha, Ganzo - Thank you for being here. :-)

Practically each basho gives me massive info to improve all the scripts. That's why I call it "Open Alpha". The game improves because of you.

About this banzuke - this one to calculate includes only results, from all basho Rikishi took part. It's better than earlier, but has issues. For example, Yoemon (Jd1e) with chances to be still on top even if he get low KK or even Mk. O.o

Edited by PhorCillic

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You should make the new banzuke based only on last basho banzuke and last basho results.

So even if Jd1e Yoemon has won every basho sofar, and every bout but next basho he has only 5-2 and Jd1w (or even Jd2 or Jd3) has 6-1 then Jd1w should be ahaed of him next basho.

Because all the previous basho (except the last one) don't matter.

There are better banzuke specialists around here than me but basically in Makuuchi and Juryo you go up/down 2 spots on banzuke with each win/loss depending on KK/MK

The pattern is [Wins] minus [Losses] = number of spots to go up/down.

So +1 spot for 8-7, +3 spots for 9-6, -7 spots for 4-11 etc.

In lower division the number can be higher, depending on size of division.

For example with step = 4 you could have: +2 spots with 4-3, +6 spots with 5-2, +10 spots with 6-1, -10 spots with 1-6 etc,

if you start calculating the new banzuke you start with the top spot (lets say Jd1e) and decide who deserves it most, then you go to next spot (Jd1w) and so on.

But with the rule that KK should never be demoted ank MK should never be promoted.

So for example if the step for each win is 4 then if Jd1e has 5-2 and Jd4w has 6-1 then Jd4w should be ahead of Jd1e on next banzuke, because he has 1 win more (4 spots advantage) and is only 3.5 banzuke spots lower.

The same goes for MK rikishi. Jd5e with 3-4 will be always ahead of Jd2e with 2-5.

In case of 1 KK and 1 MK you have to decide, depending on available spots on the banzuke. On one basho Jd10e 5-2 can be higher than Jd2e 3-4 on another basho it can be the other way around.

That's all that matter. Results from previous tournaments don't matter, only the most recent one.

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I would highly recommend to have a look at this

http://sumodb.sumogames.de/Banzuke.aspx?b=201505&heya=-1&shusshin=-1&spr=on&sps=on

You may easily find out that in lower divisions like Jonidan and Jonokuchi the steps are bigger than in Makushita and Sandanme.

Difficult to find the right approach in Sumo games Banzuke with its limited amount of players. But I guess Golynohana's post #71 gives some very good advise.

Ganzohnesushi

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And looks like I have an idea, how this should work. And June Basho we're gonna test it. I give you (Golynohana, Ganzohnesushi, Mischashimaru if he wants too) a special link to test as soon as I make a first version of "Improved Banzuke" system. Feel free to comment there.

First version ready. Let's see, if in June it will be interesting and correct.

Edited by PhorCillic

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And looks like I have an idea, how this should work. And June Basho we're gonna test it. I give you (Golynohana, Ganzohnesushi, Mischashimaru if he wants too) a special link to test as soon as I make a first version of "Improved Banzuke" system. Feel free to comment there.

First version ready. Let's see, if in June it will be interesting and correct.

You ask ME to test your "improved Bazuke-System" for your Game??

It´s an honor, but I have to say: "No, thanks, I cant do that!"

Just take a short look at my previous "Guess the Banzuke"-Results here:

http://sumodb.sumogames.de/gtb/GTBPlayer.aspx?p=418

... now I think you know, why I am "not suited" for this Test!

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Okay, so... new basho arrives. :)

http://rikishi.cba.pl/en/home/

New page, which should automatically show all the info and with better way to improve.

Also, each stable got a little accomodation(+rewards).

Why there are black line under your bout? Bug - there should be chances (calculated once, when match is created and not updating even if training). Should be fixed in additional matchmaking (sunday).

And with this page I may proudly say, the Alpha is ready for translation to other languages. German maybe...? :)

Edited by PhorCillic

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