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Kasutera

When "No" means "No"

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This is going to be a very Japanese language-specific question, so apologies if this flies over most forum-goers heads, but this has been bugging me.

I've noticed that, in various wrestler's shikona, there are several different ways of rendering the possessive "no" particle.

- A hiragana の (example: Kisenosato 稀勢の里)

- A katakana ノ (example: Terunofuji 照ノ富士)

- A kanji 乃 (example: Takanohana 貴乃花)

What you never seem to see is:

-A kanji 之 (although this is used as "yuki" in many first names of rikishi)

Is there any particular stylistic reason for this beyond a rikishi/heya's individual taste? Is this such an esoteric question it's not even worth asking?

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What a coincedence. Yesterday I was asking myself the very same question.^^

What you never seem to see is:

-A kanji 之 (although this is used as "yuki" in many first names of rikishi)


It is used as a no-particle.

http://sumodb.sumogames.de/Rikishi.aspx?shikona=*之*&heya=-1&shusshin=-1&b=-1&high=-1&hd=-1&entry=-1&intai=-1&sort=1&l=j

But there seems to be no current rikishi with it.

Only 1 active rikishi using it Hisanotora.

Edited by torquato
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While I'm not a rikishi, the 之 kanji as a "no" is actually part of my member shikona of Mukonoso 武庫之荘. It was the name of the neighborhood in Amagasaki City where my Japanese wife and I had our apartment in the early 90s.

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What a coincedence. Yesterday I was asking myself the very same question.^^

What you never seem to see is:

-A kanji 之 (although this is used as "yuki" in many first names of rikishi)

It is used as a no-particle.

http://sumodb.sumogames.de/Rikishi.aspx?shikona=*之*&heya=-1&shusshin=-1&b=-1&high=-1&hd=-1&entry=-1&intai=-1&sort=1&l=j

But there seems to be no current rikishi with it.

Only 1 active rikishi using it Hisanotora.

Huh. Clicking that link, you'll find some rikishi changed the "no" in their shikona to a different one. E.G. 増之花 --> 増ノ花

Seems like it must be a case of "All interchangeable and all up to whoever's choosing the shikona."

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Kimura Shōnosuke (木村 庄之助) uses the 之 kanji with its no reading.

Swapping out which no is used seems to be much like a new color of mawashi, just hoping for a change of luck. (稀勢乃里, anyone?)

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They tried to make me go to rehab, but I said

ノ の 乃 !

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They tried to make me go to rehab, but I said

ノ の 乃 !

Please, tell me how you got back from the other world.

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So there are 4 ways to write the particle no in a shikona so far.

Theoretically there is a 5th one. Not writing it out at all. Names like the 山手線, the Tokyo Yamanote Line, come into mind for example.

I wonder, if there is any shikona, which is pronounced with a no, but officially not written out. Has anybody got a clue on this?

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So there are 4 ways to write the particle no in a shikona so far.

Theoretically there is a 5th one. Not writing it out at all. Names like the 山手線, the Tokyo Yamanote Line, come into mind for example.

I wonder, if there is any shikona, which is pronounced with a no, but officially not written out. Has anybody got a clue on this?

Well, Dewanoumi-beya always seems to be written as 出羽海. I don't know about shikona, though. I suspect the Kyokai wouldn't be too happy with it for banzuke purposes. Dewanoumi is famous and old enough to do it, but an individual rikishi? I doubt it would be allowed, but that's a total guess.

There are other 'no' possibilities, such as 野. I think it occurs more often as the last kanji of a family name (along with Kasugano and Miyagino-beya), but there is one active rikishi who has it in the middle of a proper shikona: Takadagawa-beya's Onojo.

Meanwhile, I don't think this guy really wanted to be a flower at all.

Edited by Yubinhaad
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Well, Dewanoumi-beya always seems to be written as 出羽海. I don't know about shikona, though. I suspect the Kyokai wouldn't be too happy with it for banzuke purposes. Dewanoumi is famous and old enough to do it, but an individual rikishi? I doubt it would be allowed, but that's a total guess.

Isn't every rikishi named Inoue a case of an implied 'no'?
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There are other 'no' possibilities, such as 野. I think it occurs more often as the last kanji of a family name (along with Kasugano and Miyagino-beya), but there is one active rikishi who has it in the middle of a proper shikona: Takadagawa-beya's Onojo.

In this case it's not the possessive "no" but a word that literally means "field." It's the same kanji as the "ya" in "yakyuu" 野球 for baseball, lit. "field ball"

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It appears this rikishi used the shikona Tagonofuji without a 'no' particle from 2005 to 2008. That's the most recent case I can find that isn't a common surname (Inoue, Kinoshita, Ichinohe, etc.) or a derivative of one (Okinoshita, Wakainoue, etc.).

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Meanwhile, I don't think this guy really wanted to be a flower at all.

LOL. Obviously he didn't like flowers. :)

Well, Dewanoumi-beya always seems to be written as 出羽海.

Ah. Yes, of course. Should have been the obvious to look into. The DB hast 2 rikishi with it from ancient times. One of these 出羽海 was changing to and fro between ノ, の, and without it. But at those days there wasn't a concept of orthography we have today. That shikona was certainly regarded as always the same.

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It appears this rikishi used the shikona Tagonofuji without a 'no' particle from 2005 to 2008. That's the most recent case I can find that isn't a common surname (Inoue, Kinoshita, Ichinohe, etc.) or a derivative of one (Okinoshita, Wakainoue, etc.).

At your earlier reply I wanted to remark that Inoue is only a traditional family name and not an 'invented' shikona, but in the meantime you already did it yourself.^^

Great find! How did you find that!? I can't think of any way to do this by a DB query.

BTW: Wildcard searches for shikona names at the DB always yield this result. Is this some sort of bogus/ dummy entry?

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BTW: Wildcard searches for shikona names at the DB always yield this result. Is this some sort of bogus/ dummy entry?

You've discovered the sumo equivalent of MissingNo! Don't catch him, but if you defeat him by oshidashi you get infinite rare candies.

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I actually had to look up WP for what a 'MissingNo' is supposed to be.

Now I am shocked to find out that I probably discovered _the_ WP entry with the highest ratio of 'good' and 'valuable' rated articles in comparison to even non existing articles in other languages...

I guess it's not a bug, but a feauture... ;)

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Great find! How did you find that!? I can't think of any way to do this by a DB query.

I started with this list and just used Excel to prune the list of everything that clearly doesn't fit (the various 'no' particles, *nobori*, *shino*, etc.), then checked the rest manually.

Anyway, I've done that for everyone who has been active since 1945 now, and these are the few that remained (again not including any common personal names and shikona derived from them) - some of them are probably taken directly from place names etc. so that the lack of a 'no' particle has historical reasons.

Hinodenishiki 日出錦 1941-1949 ('hinode' is not that uncommon, but otherwise always with a 'no')

Utsunomiya 宇都宮 1961-1966 (also a short-timer with little info in 1958-59)

Takanohashi 鷹嘴 1962-1964

Sachinoshima 幸島 1975-1976 (also used 幸ノ島 with the same reading; the future pro wrestler The Barbarian)

Yashinoshima 椰子島 1975-1976 (also used 椰子ノ島 with the same reading; another one of the Tongans)

Okinoerabu 沖永良部 1975-1979

Tochinofuku 栃福 1997-2002

Aminokawa 安宮川 2002-2004

Tagonofuji 田子富士 2005-2008 (as already mentioned)

Incidentally, the other Tongans also had quite a few 'no' changes not involving the implied version, Hinodeshima even used three different ones (one of them twice).

Edited by Asashosakari
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