Hakuho Utterance + Football (split from Hatsu 2015 comments)

[Akinomaki 40,666]

Hakuho criticizes the shimpan for the tori-naoshi on Day 13, he thinks he won the first bout: "I watched the video. A child could see that I won that sumo" - Kitanoumi and the YDC criticize him for that remark "it shows his immaturity".
http://www.nikkansports.com/sports/sumo/news/f-sp-tp3-20150126-1426599.html
http://www.nikkansports.com/sports/sumo/news/f-sp-tp3-20150126-1426718.html

[Masumasumasu 902]

Hakuho criticizes the shimpan for the tori-naoshi on Day 13, he thinks he won the first bout: "I watched the video. A child could see that I won that sumo" - Kitanoumi and the YDC criticize him for that remark "it shows his immaturity".

http://www.nikkansports.com/sports/sumo/news/f-sp-tp3-20150126-1426599.html

http://www.nikkansports.com/sports/sumo/news/f-sp-tp3-20150126-1426718.html

The great Takanohana would never say such a thing. Yet another reason for why I feel that he was the greater Yokozuna.

[Tsubame 368]

Hakuho criticizes the shimpan for the tori-naoshi on Day 13, he thinks he won the first bout: "I watched the video. A child could see that I won that sumo" - Kitanoumi and the YDC criticize him for that remark "it shows his immaturity".

http://www.nikkansports.com/sports/sumo/news/f-sp-tp3-20150126-1426599.html

http://www.nikkansports.com/sports/sumo/news/f-sp-tp3-20150126-1426718.html

The great Takanohana would never say such a thing. Yet another reason for why I feel that he was the greater Yokozuna.

That are the two sides of a medal:

- being a great yokozuna

- being a skillfully (and hence successfully) rikishi

The latter one is a pure technical rating. And maybe Hakuho is probably one of the most skilled rikishi ever. But that results not in being a dignified yokozuna. Remember Raiden or Asashoryu.

[orandashoho 720]

IMHO, Hakuho is being a lot more dignified than Asashoryu, who openly flaunted an "I don't care about tradition" attitude wherever he could. And where he couldn't.

[Tsubame 368]

IMHO, Hakuho is being a lot more dignified than Asashoryu, who openly flaunted an "I don't care about tradition" attitude wherever he could. And where he couldn't.

I agree, I want just to stress that being techincally superior does not automatically leads to being a good yokozuna.

[Andreas21 184]

Sure, in Japanese culture questioning Shinpans decision is probably not compatible with Hinkaku.

Me, from a western's sports perspective, consider his remark utterly

... silly.

First, bringing children into play is uselessly pathetic. It would have sufficed to say that he's convinced of something - he's the Yokozuna after all.

Then, I thoroughly watched the replay and photos, an I'm clear, Kisenosato has been robbed of this win. In all of the pictures here, Hakuhos upper side of the foot is firmly on the ground, while Kisenosato is still airborne. From the replay it was obvious that Kisenosato jumped up when he was still inside the ring. So the only point to discuss would be the "Dead Body" rule. This is debatable but I would consider the move by Kisenosato a clearly active movement, sideshifting and turning, and a brilliant one given the rather hopeless position he was in before.

So being wrong plus pathos, clear case of silliness. Doesn't matter if he's the greatest Rikishi of all times. Still silly.

And I love it. A fine tiny anecdote that he can tell his grandchildren about. If he cares to admit it, eventually.

And I consider him a great Yokozuna. This little silliness makes him even greater. Same as a small pimple or wart that makes a pretty person a beauty.

[shumitto 418]

I also think Hakuho won the first bout, but I liked the torinaoshi. Such an important milestone deserved a more convincing win.

Regardless, from an utilitarian point of view, he has nothing to gain here. He won the yusho after all, on top of that a zensho, what's the point of such remarks ?

[Benevolance 2,501]

Because now people are talking about the remark, and not talking about the fact that a Mongolian is the winningest yokozuna in history and oh, when will the Japanese reclaim their national sport and moan, moan, sob!

[Kintamayama 45,345]

The "*Hakuhou Utterance" is turning into a major issue now. The judging department is demanding that Hakuhou be called in for interrogation. They are saying he insulted the department and should be held accountable. He compared them to children. "Does this guy know his place?? He should blame himself for doing that kind of sumo!!" said one member who remained anonymous because his name was not mentioned anywhere. "We don't have to investigate the circumstances, he has to be reprimanded!!" said another indignant persona. The members of the Judging Department will be meeting with Isegahama Oyakata at the banzuke making meeting tomorrow and will relay to him their demands that Hakuhou be called into the judging department offices personally for a schooling. "Five shinpans saw it and decided on the rematch. He should think before he speaks.. He should act like a Yokozuna when a rematch is decided.." said Kitanoumi Rijicho.

The original plan was to reprimand Miyagino Oyakata at the riji meeting on Thursday, but the offended judges want Hakuhou to be personally talked to as well.

The phones at the Kyokai offices have been ringing off the hook (more than 100 calls, said someone I never heard of), with 90% of the calls saying his utterance was "inappropriate."

* "I have a problem with one bout..After I went home and watched the video, I can say that even a child could see that (I had won). Why was there a rematch?? The shinpan are ex-sumo wrestlers, right? "

Edited January 27, 2015 by Kintamayama

[Benevolance 2,501]

They should dock Hakuho three wins, add those onto Goeidous score, post-bashoishly award Geoidou a jun-yusho and let Goeidou embark upon his yokozuna run.

[Kishinoyama 595]

The phones at the Kyokai offices have been ringing off the hook (more than 100 calls, said someone I never heard of), with 90% of the calls saying his utterance was "inappropriate."

The judging department seems to be upset. The rest of the population... not so much.

Here is a thought: Hak is forced into retirement and he also has to forfeit all 33 championships. To bad today is not April 1st......

Seriously though.... The judging department can scold him on Thursday. Hopefully then we can move on. This is not Watergate or deflategate..... :-P

[Kintamayama 45,345]

Miyagino has already apologized to Isegahama and Kitanoumi yesterday, adding that Hakuhou is reflecting upon his deed as well.

"The fact that Hakuhou is attesting to his own merit is very deplorable. What kind of a terrible thing is that?? I just can't understand it..," said Isegahama Judging department head of. "The Oyakata must speak to him directly with solemn gravity.." he added.

Contrary to yesterday's report, there is no intention of reprimanding Hakuhou personally.

Edited January 28, 2015 by Kintamayama

[yorikiried by fate 2,029]

At least he didn't say it at a charity event for children.

[Washuyama 641]

At least he didn't say it at a charity event for children.

...while wearing a "Rooney" jersey...

[orandashoho 720]

Arent the shinpan and gioji elders who ought to be respected? Hardly children! Their decisions rule everything that happens, sumotori have to respect them or else quit the game. Certainly refrain from making derisive comments about a decision. When you stand at the top, it's unseemly to be greedy. It's unseemly to hog the stage and to want more than you are already getting. In questioning the shinpan he is voicing doubts about the system that allows him to reach the top. Why kick down when you can win a fair fight? Why would you even want to act as if you can't afford a fair fight?

Hakuho's great achievements aside, he does seem greedy. Last basho, swiping the envelopes to emphasize his satisfaction with getting the money. The extra unnecessary shoves. Not thinking for a moment about the other. He doesn't have to belittle his achievement, but being a little humbler would make him a better Grand Champion. Humility doesn't mean humiliation -- maybe the talk will help him better understand.

I'd hate it if he went the other way to become an enfant terrible like Asashoryu.

Edited January 28, 2015 by orandashoho

[Masumasumasu 902]

Arent the shinpan and gioji elders who ought to be respected? Hardly children! Their decisions rule everything that happens, sumotori have to respect them or else quit the game. Certainly refrain from making derisive comments about a decision. When you stand at the top, it's unseemly to be greedy. It's unseemly to hog the stage and to want more than you are already getting. In questioning the shinpan he is voicing doubts about the system that allows him to reach the top. Why kick down when you can win a fair fight? Why would you even want to act as if you can't afford a fair fight?

Hakuho's great achievements aside, he does seem greedy. Last basho, swiping the envelopes to emphasize his satisfaction with getting the money. The extra unnecessary shoves. Not thinking for a moment about the other. He doesn't have to belittle his achievement, but being a little humbler would make him a better Grand Champion. Humility doesn't mean humiliation -- maybe the talk will help him better understand.

I'd hate it if he went the other way to become an enfant terrible like Asashoryu.

Bingo!

Amen!!

Bravo!!!

[Kintamayama 45,345]

Miyagino Oyakata revealed that he went to Hakuhou's house yesterday and had an hour-long talk with him regarding his remarks about the monoii decision. "Hakuhou silently nodded and apologized.." he said (Enter your personal reaction to this here: _____________ . I keep hearing the word "Takasago".. ).

"As his Oyakata, it is his responsibility to reel him in. He should warn him well.. " said Kitanoumi Rijicho. (And the girls go: "Takasago..Takasago..")

[Kintamayama 45,345]

BTW, FYI, the Oyakata who were in the video booth at the time were Shikoroyama and Fujishima - ex-Terao and ex-Musouyama. "The outer part of Hakuhou's foot touched first, but both Kisenosato's feet were out as well and considered shnitzel shinitai (Ohhh, so there is such a thing..). We verified it many times in slo-mo. A torinaoshi was the correct decision!!" declared Shikoroyama. "In any of the cases where the outer part of the foot (not the sole..) is involved, it's really difficult to make a decision.." added ex-Musouyama.

Green horse.

[Fukurou 534]

It strikes me interesting that Hakuho has done "bad boy"-ish things throughout his career (extra shoves, forearm knockout blows, henkas, to win yusho yet, complaining about things on the dohyo, etc <-- not saying he's the only one, just that they're bad boy things), and gotten away with pretty much everything. Punishment, if any, has been light. Of course, for many years he was the white hat to Asa's black hat (gotta have something to put the butts in the seats), held up as an example for all, "Mr Perfect" (well, I call him that). And then he breaks a record, makes some comment (while still drunk?), and suddenly there's a stink that hasn't gone away yet, particularly within the NSK.

Tin foil hat time - is the NSK starting to set up the nearly 30-year-old Hakuho as the black hat? I don't know to whose white hat it could be, though. Endo's got a ways to go (if ever), Ichinojo is Mongolian (the NSK would really prefer a Japanese rikishi), and pretty much everyone else is still too far down the ranks yet.

Here's another tin hat thought - aren't ex-Terao and ex-Musoyama part of Takanohana's group? Let's blame Taka! (for what, I'm not sure, but last I read his brother still blames him for stuff)

[CT3* 331]

I think the reaction to this comment has already been overblown.

[Zuikakuyama 1]

Having watched just the NHK feed on day 13, I thought that Hakuho had won, and thought the tori-naoshi was somewhat strange.

But after reviewing the day 13 pics, it is (as Hakuho said) as plain as a child could see that the top/side of Hakuho's feet touched first... and only the dead body rule possibly saved him.

If anything, the judges were charitable to Hakuho, and it is indeed unfortunate that he would criticize them for a decision in his favor.

[Andreas21 184]

Aren't the football referees elders who ought to be respected? Hardly donkeys! Their decisions rule everything that happens, soccer players have to respect them or else quit the game. Certainly refrain from making derisive comments about a decision. When you stand at the top, it's unseemly to be greedy. It's unseemly to hog the stage and to want more than you are already getting. In questioning the referee he is voicing doubts about the system that allows him to reach the top. Why kick down when you can win a fair fight? Why would you even want to act as if you can't afford a fair fight?

Ribery's great achievements aside, he does seem greedy. Last CL game, nodding blatantly to emphasize his satisfaction with getting the unjustified penalty. The extra unnecessary elbow strokes. Not thinking for a moment about the other. He doesn't have to belittle his achievement, but being a little humbler would make him a better Grand Champion. Humility doesn't mean humiliation -- maybe the talk will help him better understand.

I'd hate it if he went the other way to become an enfant terrible like Zlatan Ibrahimovic.

Thousand apologies for transforming this little gem of prose. I simply couldn't resist.

Edited January 29, 2015 by Andreas21

[orandashoho 720]

Soccer is a team sport, the culture and the big money surrounding it doesn't compare to sumo, soccer professonals are not exactly known for their dignity, they aren't expected to be humble and would be called sissies if they were.

[Masumasumasu 902]

Soccer is a team sport, the culture and the big money surrounding it doesn't compare to sumo, soccer professonals are not exactly known for their dignity, they aren't expected to be humble and would be called sissies if they were.

You're right. Comparing Sumo to Futbol is like comparing Beethoven to Justin Bieber. One is brilliant, sophisticated and dignified. The other is crude, simple-minded and asinine.

[Andreas21 184]

I did not imply that these sports bear any similarity. I just wanted to do an experiment with these words, how that sounds.

Indeed, it sounds good to me. Some more dignity, humbleness, respect to the elders and referees would be great also in soccer, and other sports. I'm sure not the only one to think so - once in a while discussions about the psychological stress to referees pop up (and fade again).